Jump to content

Reading Excuses - 28.7.2014 - Tal Spektor - "Showers" and "Garden of Roses"


Dysphoric Kitten

Recommended Posts

These are two submissions, unrelated to each other. 

 
 
"Showers" does not need much of an expanation or on an introduction. It is a fairly straightforward short story.
 
"Garden of Roses" is very frilly, and is deeply rooted in symbolism. You may look at the piece as it is, without the extra knowledge (I am very curious to hear how you found this side of it, as I cannot really see it), or you may look more closely at the poem, while analyzing using the Flower Code - each of these kinds of roses has a different meaning, and all can be found by google. For your convenience, I added the meanings in the spoiler box below.
 
 
I also have a third piece ("Nonsense Romance"), which, while written with nonsense comedy in mind, contains just about every offensive material possible. I would love to hear what you think - should I send it next week, or should I bury it deep?
 
 
 
Summaries of the flower meanings

Yellow rose - friendship (or joy)

Black rose - death (or mourning)

Blue rose - hope against unattainable love (or some other "rare/against all odds" meaning)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the "When you" rhythm of "Showers". As someone with a filing job (about to take the shower before going into work on Monday), I'm right with you there. I will say that there are some awkward lines. "you've partied just a bit too much" and "she just dissed you for no reason" felt out of the tone (the word "just" is a word for me that creeps in a lot, and in many cases I find can be cut without trouble).

 

The last big paragraph seems a bit contradictory though. You're crying, so your life is interesting, alright, sure. But you're afraid for your life (because of war? aren't you in the mandatory filing position, though?) and there's a weeping girl thrown in with no context.

 

It feels like there's supposed to be buildup to the fact that the second person is in the army, but it's a bit thrown on, and the previous paragraphs could apply to anyone, so a few context clues could fix that.

 

I will not try to touch the poetry. Nope, not a good idea. Bad things happen when I try to dissect poetry. Flashbacks to Intro Lit, hours spent discussing single images. Oh God...

 

But hey, something different! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welp, I have to say I'm glad you're hear. Knowing your back story, it seemed like Showers was just a series of vignettes from your life. Which is fine, since there have been a lot of really interesting stories about people's lives. The thing, for me, is that it doesn't seem to have a point or direction; maybe that is the point. But, like with poetry, if you're going to do pieces this short (as I've had to learn the hard way), syntax has to be amazing. 

 

Which brings me to "Garden of Roses"--frankly, I've never been much of a poetry fan; I always went in for the elites, Brian Hooker, Robert Browning, even Chaucer and Dante, but those guys told a story with the added constraint of poeticism. So take my comments with a grain of salt: I don't much care for it. I don't like the limping meter, I don't like the rhyming stanzas, I don't like the cliched way it approaches romance. You tried to change the colors, so credit there, but really? Three stanzas of a blossoming, unfurling, then dying romance? I can go to the downtown district in my city and find ten thousand; what makes yours better? What makes yours unique? (Hint: it's not your experience.)

 

These are also dangers that I've found myself running into with writing. Check the forum, there's a reason I haven't posted anything in an age. Without a clear ending, or even a general notion of "this is where I want to go", my stories turn excrescent even as I write them. But if you don't work at it, you don't improve, so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Garden of Roses:

Alright, I'll stick my neck out here and try to touch on the poetry a little.  Take all the below with a big warning sticker.  I don't generally do poetry, so my critiques here are suspect.

 
It's a fairly standard story of a relationship betrayal, if you assume yellow roses are friendship, and blue and black are revenge/evil/betrayal of some sort.  I don't know the official meaning for those. (Edit--my guesses were pretty correct based on your meanings, if the "death" is of the romance and not the person.)
 
If you want critiques on style or format, the rhythm of the poem doesn't flow as well as it could to my ear.  This format of 10-11 syllables per line lends itself to a faster, lighter reading cadence, which doesn't work as well with the tone of the poem.
 
Showers:
The biggest thing about this that hit was the sense of no hope.  I tend to be an optimist, so I want to find something that could be better.  I would hope there is a  turnaround in store, or at least a conclusion what is happening here.  Like jParker says, there's no real conclusion, so rather than reading like flash fiction, it's just a brief vignette going nowhere particular.  Look up "If you were a dinosaur, my love," which was a piece of flash fiction on this year's Hugo ballot.  It's barely longer than what you have, and packs an emotional punch.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a great fan of lyrical poetry, strange perhaps, since I'm a big music fan - so I preferred "Showers" to "Garden".

 

"Garden" for me was a bit too oblique, and I didn't want to have to search online for the meaning.

 

In "Showers", I liked the idea and the progression, and I felt it did reach a conclusion. I would agree with JP's comment about syntax - I might not use the word amazing, but I'd certainly say 'tighter' and/or more 'precise', but I think with some work it could be a more affecting piece.

 

I really appreciate you sharing, if nothing else, it does us good to be faced with something different to comment on, and you inspired me to go back and look at thew few poems I've written (about 25 years ago), which was a bittersweet experience.

Edited by Robinski
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually did feel that something was missing from "Showers", and thank you all very much for pointing it out - I will try and think how to tie it up a little better. Originally, I thought doing one more paragraph, where you are lying in the shower, with the implication of a depression-caused suicide, but I am not sure how well it fits into the rest. I guess I do not know how to end things, especially this story... I will need to think of a way to do that. If any of you get an idea, I'd be glad to hear!

 

I also understand that I need too tighten and tidy it all up alot, which I am not sure how to do.

 

As always, this is at least somewhat based on me. 

 

 

 

Some specifics:

The girl -    felt clear enough when I last read it, but seems not to be so. I have a thing with always helping people, always wanting to be there for them, many times without even knowing them. This was meant to convey that I do not really care about people and the world that much anymore.

Interesting life -   this was, admittedly, somewhat odd and excessive, but the only thing that seemed to fit was equating a good life with a boring life, which I do many times when I am down. I will look for a way to improve this.

War stuff -    this is, again, my life. Current events include: Israel is in a state of war. So yes, I fear for my life occasionally, as rockets can hit anywhere. 

The army -    (to be clear, the person fearing death and the person getting recruited is the same one) I am to be drafted in the following months (the majority of 18-year-old Israelis do, it is mandatory). And no, you definitely do not want to spend three years filing when you have one of the best logical intellects in your school. I would much rather be in logistics, intelligence, or another job that is not monotonous. This part will most probably be taken out next time I edit the piece.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for "Garden of Roses" - 

 

Roses is the frilliest piece I have made yet. More than fifty percent of the poem is metaphors, although they are all very similar. There has not even been one good moment in that poem.

 

Mandamon, would you please explain this thing about different rhythms being lighter or different? I am not that well-versed in analyzing poetry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mandamon, would you please explain this thing about different rhythms being lighter or different? I am not that well-versed in analyzing poetry.

Ha!  Me either.  I don't think any of us here are.  I just meant that when I read it, it fell into a sort of rhythm:

Da DUM da da dum dum, Da DUM da da da.

It almost has the same start as a limerick...not really, but it put me in that mind.  A limerick is usually a piece of silly writing and this seemed a lot more serious in tone.  Then for the rest of the poem I was trying to reconcile the two and it threw me off.

I know that's not very concrete, but then, that's also why I don't usually critique poetry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like pretty much everyone, I'm not used to critiquing this sort of thing, and I was glad of the challenge.

 

Personally, I preferred Garden of Roses. I thought that the rhythm could use a little work - the eighth line in particular seemed out of pace with the rest - but I liked the imagery. Sure, it's familiar stuff, but it's nicely done.

 

Showers had a lot in it that resonated with me (though not the being drafted part - I feel very sorry for you being in a country where that happens). I think that the fourth paragraph, by trying to cram in more detail, loses the sense of focus the previous paragraphs had. Shorter and more focussed would work better. I also struggled with the choice of the word 'interesting'. Without getting too far into sharing, I've struggled with depression, and I never would have referred to the experience portrayed there as interesting. I know it's a deeply personal experience, and different for everyone, but that line rang false for me.

 

Well done for sharing such a personal piece.

 

Just in case you're after learning more about poetic structure, there's a great book by Stephen Fry called The Ode Less Travelled that's all about learning different structures and rhythms. Being focussed on prose I've only worked my way through a couple of chapters, but it's really accessible and interesting, and can help develop an instinct for the rhythm of words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...