Sixth of Dusk timeline/ones above Brandon Answers [Maybe spoilers]

[Yata]

Actualy, they would still have to carry a link to the Dor, or a splinter(not quite the right term, but...) of it.

Of course, they have all the time in the world to guess how to do it, since Elantris happens hundreds of years before the Mistborn original triology.

A friend of mine has an idea for some "portable Dor".

He thoughts about using two (or more) Aon that feed of the result of the others in a loop and replace one of this with the effective Aon to use the Dor.

 

Maybe it's a rough method, but could be improved. End of course this method could keep some Dor not infinite.

[DSC01]

The ones above have to be from Scadrial. That's just what makes sense.

 

The thing is, they kind of seem like bad guys. Not hard bad guys, who are only out to do dastardly deeds, but they are certainly just out to better themselves.They clearly exploited a loophole in their version of the Prime Directive to screw over the inhabitants of the planet. And I don't think that Harmony even cares. Sazed was a great guy, but after centuries as Harmony, he probably is okay with whatever, as long as a balance is maintained. 

 

Sixth of the Dusk may be foreshadowing Scadrial as a source of antagonists in the overall story of the Cosmere. I think there will still be good guys from the planet, but let's not forget that even the Lord Ruler was a product of both Preservation and Ruin, in his own way (and ultimately, he was much more of Preservation than Ruin). Scadrial is a proven source of villainy. 

[Gallifreyan Jedi]

I don't think gravitation would work for interstellar travel. Once you escape roshar's gravity, you're multiplying by zero.

Then again, maybe you could amplify the gravitational assist as you slingshot around another planet in the system, or even the local sun, but that would require some serious hacking, assuming the surges are anchored to roshar itself.

[Landis963]

I don't think gravitation would work for interstellar travel. Once you escape roshar's gravity, you're multiplying by zero.

Then again, maybe you could amplify the gravitational assist as you slingshot around another planet in the system, or even the local sun, but that would require some serious hacking, assuming the surges are anchored to roshar itself.

I don't believe it's the surges, per se, that are tied to Roshar. It's the Stormlight. Therefore, you need some way of storing it in fabrial-esque batteries, in much greater quantity than spheres can hold, and for longer. Knights Radiant wouldn't even be required, not really.

[Weltall]

The thing is, they kind of seem like bad guys. Not hard bad guys, who are only out to do dastardly deeds, but they are certainly just out to better themselves.They clearly exploited a loophole in their version of the Prime Directive to screw over the inhabitants of the planet. And I don't think that Harmony even cares. Sazed was a great guy, but after centuries as Harmony, he probably is okay with whatever, as long as a balance is maintained.

 

Another possibility is that the Ones Above set the planet up to develop technology at an accelerated rate by 'accidentally' leaving some behind not to exploit a loophole to better themselves directly (as Sixth thinks) but to exploit that same loophole so that in time they can more directly interact with the people to help prepare them for something else that could be coming their way. Both have about as much evidence for and against.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Weltall

[thecaptain01]

I'm in the Ones Above being from Scadrial school and I think more evidence has been revealed by Sanderson in this recent Q&A session at a Sos book signing.

 

In the Q&A he speaks about plans for a future Mistborn series where Allomancers and Feruchemists enable Space Travel.

 

Here's the link, with him talking about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhfm1nVH-8M#t=27m35s

[WeiryWriter]

I'm in the Ones Above being from Scadrial school and I think more evidence has been revealed by Sanderson in this recent Q&A session at a Sos book signing.

 

In the Q&A he speaks about plans for a future Mistborn series where Allomancers and Feruchemists enable Space Travel.

 

Here's the link, with him talking about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhfm1nVH-8M#t=27m35s

 

We've actually known about Brandon's plans for a Space Age Mistborn since pretty early on in his career. This is already one of the main pieces of evidence for the "Ones Above are Scadrian" theory.

[terminon]

I've got an interesting bit to add to this conversation. When I ordered Shadows Beneath, I asked Brandon to include some interesting larger-Cosmere-related tidbit about Dusk in the personalization. What he wrote is: "Dusk has had Herdazian food and _hates_ it."

 

Maybe all this means is that one of the Ones Above has visited Roshar and acquired a taste for chouta, or they picked up some crewmates there, or have a Herdazian worldhopper among them, but there it is. Someone (somewhere, somehow) decided to give Dusk the opportunity to decide for himself that eating chunks of undefinable meat slathered in some dark liquid isn't really his cup of tea.

 

EDIT: Okay, so the inscription was actually in my wife's book. Image attached!

Edited January 24, 2016 by terminon

[Windrunner]

If you wouldn't mind, could you post a picture of the personalization? We like to have an image of the inscription. Awesome piece of info!

[terminon]

[updated original post to add the picture.]

Edited January 24, 2016 by terminon

[Yata]

Well at least something of the Herdazian Culture will survive to the event on their home planet

[Iarwainiel I]

(I'm not an astrophysicist, so please forgive me if this is actually a dumb idea.)

 

IIRC, two or more Cosmere planets are in the same solar system.

 

What would happen if two planets were in the same orbit but opposite each other, and people from one of the planets went up in a spaceship and just stayed in one place - i.e., their planet moved on in its orbit and left them behind? In a half year's time (whatever that would be), the other planet would come a-rollin' down the pike, as it were. So all you would need to do, to "travel" to another planet, would be to go up, escape your own world's gravity, and do minor position corrections for half a year before attempting to land.. As long as you had enough food and life support, it could be easier to go to another world than we might have thought.

 

If this scenario doesn't fit with the situation for First of the Sun, might it fit for two (or even three) of the other Cosmere planets?

[Landis963]

(I'm not an astrophysicist, so please forgive me if this is actually a dumb idea.)

 

IIRC, two or more Cosmere planets are in the same solar system.

 

What would happen if two planets were in the same orbit but opposite each other, and people from one of the planets went up in a spaceship and just stayed in one place - i.e., their planet moved on in its orbit and left them behind? In a half year's time (whatever that would be), the other planet would come a-rollin' down the pike, as it were. So all you would need to do, to "travel" to another planet, would be to go up, escape your own world's gravity, and do minor position corrections for half a year before attempting to land.. As long as you had enough food and life support, it could be easier to go to another world than we might have thought.

 

If this scenario doesn't fit with the situation for First of the Sun, might it fit for two (or even three) of the other Cosmere planets?

 

There are three known planets in the solar system we know as Greater Roshar, and they all have Cosmere happenings on them: Roshar of course is where the main thrust of SLA takes place, Braize is Odium's home base (and probably moonlights as Damnation), while Ashyn has a peculiar magic "system" where diseases, as an evolutionary measure, grant their hosts magic powers for reasons.  (The example he always uses to describe it is "get a cold and gain the ability to fly like Superman while the cold runs its course")  So far as I remember, none of them have the orbital relationship you describe.  All the rest appear to have normal, Greater Earth-like solar systems.  

 

All of said solar systems, however, are in the same galactic neighborhood as each other, hence why things like a bright patch of red stars are visible from both Scadrial and Roshar, and why people can walk the distances in the Cognitive Realm relatively easily.  

Edited February 24, 2016 by Landis963

[Iarwainiel I]

@ Landis963 (#38) - Yes, and what I'm theorizing is in addition to that.

 

We know TLR messed up Scadrial's climate by changing its orbit, so I think Brandon won't have worlds where the laws of nature don't apply: i.e., he won't make a huge planet far from its star like our Jupiter and have human beings living there normally, breathing air, drinking water, walking and talking, etc.

 

So therefore if humans/humanoids are living on 3 planets in the same solar system, all 3 planets would need to be about the same distance from their star. The orbits wouldn't need to be exactly the same, but ...

 

For plot purposes it would be way interesting if less technology was needed to go from world to world; something simpler than going from Earth to Mars or Venus.

 

That's what made me think that the Cosmere planets might be in the same orbit, spaced out from each other.

 

I don't think we have a WoB or anything specific saying the 3 planets you mention aren't in the same orbit, and IIRC we don't know for sure if any of the other planets (like Scadrial and First of the Sun) are in the same solar system as each other (though a different one from Roshar/Ashyn/Braize).

 

I remember reading that we will be getting an interstellar map in one of the upcoming books - looking forward to that!

[Landis963]

@ Landis963 (#38) - Yes, and what I'm theorizing is in addition to that.

 

We know TLR messed up Scadrial's climate by changing its orbit, so I think Brandon won't have worlds where the laws of nature don't apply: i.e., he won't make a huge planet far from its star like our Jupiter and have human beings living there normally, breathing air, drinking water, walking and talking, etc.

 

So therefore if humans/humanoids are living on 3 planets in the same solar system, all 3 planets would need to be about the same distance from their star. The orbits wouldn't need to be exactly the same, but ...

 

For plot purposes it would be way interesting if less technology was needed to go from world to world; something simpler than going from Earth to Mars or Venus.

 

That's what made me think that the Cosmere planets might be in the same orbit, spaced out from each other.

 

I don't think we have a WoB or anything specific saying the 3 planets you mention aren't in the same orbit, and IIRC we don't know for sure if any of the other planets (like Scadrial and First of the Sun) are in the same solar system as each other (though a different one from Roshar/Ashyn/Braize).

 

I remember reading that we will be getting an interstellar map in one of the upcoming books - looking forward to that!

 

The so-called "Goldilocks zone" can comprise a lot of different orbits (I believe that Mars and Venus are technically the right distance away from Sol?) so it's not impossible that Roshar, Braize, and Ashyn would all have life on them (especially where Shards and Investiture are involved) and yet have different orbits.  Yes, the overall climate would be vastly different (especially since we don't know their positions relative to Roshar's orbit and sun) but if they're still in the goldilocks zone, they'd still support life.  

 

EDIT: Just checked.  Venus is just a hair too close to qualify, and Mars only qualifies under less than strictly conservative estimates.  

Edited February 24, 2016 by Landis963

[Zmann966]

• The non-intervention policy could be interpreted as something Harmony would dictate - or it could be the complete opposite, interpretation is a big thing

Sounds more like the Intent of Autonomy to me... 

But the "Yes we've seen the Ones Above" before makes me feel like White Sand is out-of-the-question. Scadrial is the most currently plausible world.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Zmann966

[Bremen]

(I'm not an astrophysicist, so please forgive me if this is actually a dumb idea.)

 

IIRC, two or more Cosmere planets are in the same solar system.

 

What would happen if two planets were in the same orbit but opposite each other, and people from one of the planets went up in a spaceship and just stayed in one place - i.e., their planet moved on in its orbit and left them behind? In a half year's time (whatever that would be), the other planet would come a-rollin' down the pike, as it were. So all you would need to do, to "travel" to another planet, would be to go up, escape your own world's gravity, and do minor position corrections for half a year before attempting to land.. As long as you had enough food and life support, it could be easier to go to another world than we might have thought.

 

If this scenario doesn't fit with the situation for First of the Sun, might it fit for two (or even three) of the other Cosmere planets?

Two planets sharing the same orbit like that is inherently unstable.  It is possible to have stable orbits if one planet orbits 60 degrees ahead or behind the other (instead of the 180 you propose), but to be stable one planet has to be much smaller than the other.  The smaller one has to be less than 1% the mass of the first.  Obviously that's a bit of an issue if you want roughly Earth type analogues.

 

edit: I just thought, if you have a Jupiter sized planet you could have one Earth orbiting ahead of it and one behind.  That could be a way to potentially get two shard worlds to share an orbit.

 

Also you can't just stop a spaceship in an orbit like you propose.  Well, you could, but then you fall into the sun.  If you want to learn more just watch some Kerbal Space Program tutorial videos.

[Zmann966]

Two planets sharing the same orbit like that is inherently unstable.  It is possible to have stable orbits if one planet orbits 60 degrees ahead or behind the other (instead of the 180 you propose), but to be stable one planet has to be much smaller than the other.  The smaller one has to be less than 1% the mass of the first.  Obviously that's a bit of an issue if you want roughly Earth type analogues.

 

edit: I just thought, if you have a Jupiter sized planet you could have one Earth orbiting ahead of it and one behind.  That could be a way to potentially get two shard worlds to share an orbit.

 

Also you can't just stop a spaceship in an orbit like you propose.  Well, you could, but then you fall into the sun.  If you want to learn more just watch some Kerbal Space Program tutorial videos.

 Upvote for KSP.

I thought I knew orbital mechanics, until I played that game. Now I do know orbital mechanics.

[ZenBossanova]

If we know that Sixth of Dusk had Herdazian food, then isn't vastly more likely that the Ones Above are Rosharan? 

[Guest]

If we know that Sixth of Dusk had Herdazian food, then isn't vastly more likely that the Ones Above are Rosharan?

Not if the Ones Above are new arrivals and the Herdazian food is a cultural norm. If the Herdazian food is new, then that would make sense. (I don't remember which it was, been a while since I read the book)

[Argel]

It could just mean there is a Herdazian worldhopper. Or he worldhops to Roshar. Or Herdazian food is all the rage at this point in (far in the future) time. Or it's used as an enhanced interrogation technique....

[Blackhoof]

Given how little involvement the Ones Above have, it seems unlikely that they would have brought food. Then again I can't see anything wrong with a little food being gifted and shared.

But if not the Ones Above, who brought the food? A Herdazian worldhopper?

[Guest]

I think what we saw in Bands of Mourning makes it unlikely that the Ones Above are Scadrian.

Because of the way Identity works, the translation device has to be worn by the visitor to a foreign land, not a local. The Ones Above have devices that can be used by the locals to translate from the Ones Above language.

Note this isn't for sure, as it's possible they managed to hack it over the course of 600 years.

[Argel]

Given how little involvement the Ones Above have, it seems unlikely that they would have brought food. Then again I can't see anything wrong with a little food being gifted and shared.

But if not the Ones Above, who brought the food? A Herdazian worldhopper?

 

Does Brandon say when Sixth of the Dusk has had Herdazian food? If not, I'm guessing it's after the short story takes place.

 

The other possiblitiy is a worldhopper is living on that planet now incognito, such that Sixth has had Herdazian food but doesn't know that's what it is. That is, maybe it's just a new recipe/style of food.

[Blackhoof]

Does Brandon say when Sixth of the Dusk has had Herdazian food? If not, I'm guessing it's after the short story takes place.

 

The other possiblitiy is a worldhopper is living on that planet now incognito, such that Sixth has had Herdazian food but doesn't know that's what it is. That is, maybe it's just a new recipe/style of food.

 

that seems unlikely though- the tense is all wrong. It would be like saying "Sixth has been killed in a war against the Ones Above". Uh, no he hasn't, not yet at least