ninch

Sixth of Dusk timeline/ones above Brandon Answers [Maybe spoilers]

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Great to know. Thanks for asking!

 

Evidence for Ones Above being Scadrians only grows! Though it is also evidence for quite a lot of other possible worlds.

Edited by Moogle
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Yeah, That's what I was thinking as I read it too.

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Nice, thanks Ninch.

 

To list, we have Scadrial, Nalthis, Sel, Roshar, and Threnody to choose from at this point.

 

We've discussed it before, but I must say again that I think that the "dead" emissary (probably) not being dead points pretty strongly at Scadrial, especially since we now know that it's likely not some wildcard magic system that we've never seen before.

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Yeah, say someone storing wakefulness or whatever. They'd probably seem dead. What metal showed the someones future?  Gold? maybe thats what the machine used or whatever, to project everyone's possible futures, that fake atium maybe.

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That or drugs. I'm pretty sure a space-faring society is gonna have equally impressive pharmaceuticals, assuming they can't make a gold-compounding machine. 

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What about Elantians? From what I have seen on these boards, world hopping is difficult because of what happened to devotion and dominion. So if you can't or it is difficult to world hop via Shadesmar, why not go around and just use spaceflight? Elantians can use illusions to look human, and since they do not need to eat/breathe etc (if I recall correctly, been awhile since I read it), they could easily feign death. Finally I could see Raodin, being devoted to his people, being the type to hold to a rule of non-interference with less technologically advanced cultures but find a way around such a rule. In fact quite a few heros/rulers in Brandon's books are that type. They are altruistic, but in many ways ruthless due to the responsibilities they must deal with. I personally am not sold yet one way or the other, but throwing out my thoughts and seeing what everyone thinks. 

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Scadrial does seem the most likely one here:

  • The non-intervention policy could be interpreted as something Harmony would dictate - or it could be the complete opposite, interpretation is a big thing
  • The maybe-not-quite-dead ambassador could be a Feruchemist, or he could be a kandra
  • We know Scadrians will eventually fly through the stars; we don't know such thing about the other worlds

This being said, I have to wonder whether the ambassador could've been a Lifeless from Nalthis...

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I could see it very easily being Threnody, if only because they seemed fairly technologically advanced when we see them in Shadows of Silence, and because they have a huge impetus to get the Damnation off of their planet.

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Nice, thanks Ninch.

 

To list, we have Scadrial, Nalthis, Sel, Roshar, and Threnody to choose from at this point.

 

We've discussed it before, but I must say again that I think that the "dead" emissary (probably) not being dead points pretty strongly at Scadrial, especially since we now know that it's likely not some wildcard magic system that we've never seen before.

 

I would also add Taldain, as even though White Sand isnt generally available one could argue we've "seen" it.

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I would go white sand also. The general theory points to khriss from white sand as being the author for the ars ancarnum. The general study and cosmere awareness of it makes me think of how the ones above would be interested in the cognitive powers of the birds. Scadrial is theorized based on the fact that we know they will develop space flight. But we know that technology can differed from planet to planet in the future.

If it does end up being scadrial maybe the machines operate under some sort of fabrial seeker principle to seek out investiture

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What about Elantians? From what I have seen on these boards, world hopping is difficult because of what happened to devotion and dominion. So if you can't or it is difficult to world hop via Shadesmar, why not go around and just use spaceflight? Elantians can use illusions to look human, and since they do not need to eat/breathe etc (if I recall correctly, been awhile since I read it), they could easily feign death. Finally I could see Raodin, being devoted to his people, being the type to hold to a rule of non-interference with less technologically advanced cultures but find a way around such a rule. In fact quite a few heros/rulers in Brandon's books are that type. They are altruistic, but in many ways ruthless due to the responsibilities they must deal with. I personally am not sold yet one way or the other, but throwing out my thoughts and seeing what everyone thinks.

I like this idea.

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for sure we are not dealing with just one group of ones from above ..

 

page 100 hardcover - top of the page

 

strongly suggests there are more than one group and that they aren't all as nice :D

 

maybe we are dealing with groups like the 17th shard or Ghostbloods but in the future with different memebers from different planets

 

and i'd like to say for the record : snap crackle pop

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I'm only 1/3 of the way through this book, so feel free to ignore this if there is something coming that kills this idea, but my initial gut theory is that these "One's Above" are Elantrians, and they haven't left their home system yet.

 

Reasons:

1) Highly localized magic system on both worlds. (Drawing specific landscape features vs specific set of islands)

2) The One's have detailed maps/charts of the planet, and felt these important enough to share, suggesting a high value is placed on specific physical landscape features.

3) Brandon has stated that Sel is "very Cosmere Aware" compared to other Shardworlds, and that Shadesmar travel to/from Sel is very difficult.  Given the technology levels shown in other books, simply knowing another inhabited world EXISTS fits this description, and the difficulty of travel via Shadesmar necessitates spaceflight.

 

 

(Note, I'm not at all the type to worry about Spoilers, hence why I'm in here before even finishing the book. Feel free to ruin what's coming with rebuttals)

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My only problem with Elantrians is I can't help but think the space travel is magically enhanced or derived and AonDor is a very localized magic. It only works close to Elantris so how could it work to travel space. Unless they somehow figured out how to bring it with them but how do you move the Dor.

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That could be exactly why they want the worms/birds. Perhaps they think they can get the worms to absorb the Dor somehow.

But I think I saw a WoB that said although AonDor uses features of the land, you only have to use local features relative to you to access the Dor from anywhere.

So the magic would be useless during normal travel (no features/constantly changing features), but upon arrival you could study the local features and use the Dor. So a trip would work as follows: draw a very, VERY powerful travel Aon, the ship appears in new location, all Aons stop working, study the local features, use updated Aons.

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Wasn't exactly how I remembered it.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27aondor%27

QUESTION

Is there a region based magic like Elantris on any of the other worlds?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Aon magic is unique to that planet because it is intrinsic to the shard that created it, but you could theoretically hack the magic system so that AonDor would work on another planet.

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Ok I admit that sounds like an awesome way to space travel and the map stuff does make sense with Elantrians.

Of course....

ldf1o.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Maker

Edited by StormingTexan
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Ok I admit that sounds like an awesome way to space travel and the map stuff does make sense with Elantrians.

Of course....ldf1o.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Maker

but once they travel they cannot go back because they are too far from elantris, and probably the shard itself. Wouldn't this also suggest they couldn't travel infinite distance. Also, couldn't the ones above be surge binders or whatever the ones that can "fly" are called? ( sorry, read WoK+WoR too many books ago to remembers) but Brandon said they could exit orbit with enough healing power+Stormlight. What if the ones above were just gravitation surge binders using massive amounts of densely stored Stormlight
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Hard to say if it they will be Rosharan/Surgebinders given we don't know how SA will play out just yet but it is possible they will have some screentime. I'm leaning to either Scadrians or Elantrians/Selish, and maybe possibly ?Threnodans? and Nalthians for a wildcard.

 

Scadrians > given Harmony's policy on non-interference (well, as much as it seems like non-interference on the surface)

 

Selish > They've either managed to figure out how to navigate/'fix' Selian Shadesmar due to finally uniting as a Planet (this gives me ideas/questions) or due to the difficulty/risk of navigating Shadesmar from Sel, they turned their focus inward to develop space-faring technology. (as others have said) 

 

It would help if i'd have actually read the book >.> but i don't really want to buy the whole book >.>

Edited by ParadoxSpren
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Couldn't the ones above be surge binders or whatever the ones that can "fly" are called? ( sorry, read WoK+WoR too many books ago to remembers) but Brandon said they could exit orbit with enough healing power+Stormlight. What if the ones above were just gravitation surge binders using massive amounts of densely stored Stormlight

 

They have spaceships, which means more mass to lift with Gravitation, which means you need to pack more Stormlight into the vehicle, somehow, and then double that if you want to make a return trip.  The equation isn't impossible to balance (we do it with more mundane fuels all the time), but it would be very difficult to figure out (not to mention construct) possible spaceships with massive tempests whose leading edges are referred to as "walls" circling the globe every few weeks.  The ones with the Surge of Gravitation are the Windrunners and the Skybreakers.  

 

I'm of the opinion that it's either Scadrian or Taldaini explorers, myself.  

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Also, I can see a major problem of diminishing returns for a Gravitation Surge drive, depending on where certain numbers fall in the equation(s).

The simplest is just diminishing returns due to the weakening of gravity the further into deep space they go.

My money's on them either being Scadrian's hoping for a way to alter sDNA, or they're Selish out studying planets for AON development.

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but once they travel they cannot go back because they are too far from elantris, and probably the shard itself. Wouldn't this also suggest they couldn't travel infinite distance. Also, couldn't the ones above be surge binders or whatever the ones that can "fly" are called? ( sorry, read WoK+WoR too many books ago to remembers) but Brandon said they could exit orbit with enough healing power+Stormlight. What if the ones above were just gravitation surge binders using massive amounts of densely stored Stormlight

 

They would need to set up some sort of power-booster Aonic construct at their new location that either boosted their powers specifically, or provided an Elantris-like boost to all Elantrians, in order to return with AonDor.

 

Now, arguing for Selish space ships is a bit easier, as you could build any necessary Aons it needs with it into the design, and then figure out any modifications that the relevant Aons need during travel, and design your ship so that the navigation system progressively modifies the relevant Aons as you move.

 

As far as I can see, Sel and Scadrial are the two prime contenders for investiture-based FTL.

Edited by Ari
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They would need to set up some sort of power-booster Aonic construct at their new location that either boosted their powers specifically, or provided an Elantris-like boost to all Elantrians, in order to return with AonDor.

Now, arguing for Selish space ships is a bit easier, as you could build any necessary Aons it needs with it into the design, and then figure out any modifications that the relevant Aons need during travel, and design your ship so that the navigation system progressively modifies the relevant Aons as you move.

As far as I can see, Sel and Scadrial are the two prime contenders for investiture-based FTL.

Actualy, they would still have to carry a link to the Dor, or a splinter(not quite the right term, but...) of it.

Of course, they have all the time in the world to guess how to do it, since Elantris happens hundreds of years before the Mistborn original triology.

Edited by CognitivePulsePattern
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