7.21.14 - Endurant Archivist - Resistance Continued

[Endurant Archivist]

Ok, the story is continuing from the first 1000 words. These next 2000 cover the follow up to the battle and the realization more is coming.

 

Always looking forward to your thoughts!

[A Joe in the Bush]

Hey just saw this. What is this all about? I'm confused.

[Endurant Archivist]

This is the thread for reviews on my novella. It should be in your inbox if it sent correctly. Are you on the reading excuses email list?

[andyk]

I liked the connection forged with Tillian over his dead son. These sorts of personal relationships, the bonding across conflicts, make for a more interesting story. The addition of the baron and his daughter also promises more conflict within Solomon's side, which is intriguing.

 

Other than that, my main comment is that, as with the previous part, I didn't get much idea of what the place or people are like. For example when they're meeting with the baron what sort of place is this? It could be anything from a crude stick hut to a vast stone hall, and without knowing more about the technology and style of this setting it's hard to fill in the blanks.

[Mandamon]

Trying to adjust my critiquing style a la the videos...

 

Did Paul change into Solomon?

 

First off, I like the nuances you create between the characters.  You can tell a lot about the relationships between them just by the words.  So much so, that some of the explanations and dialogue spoken by others after an explanation seem unneeded:

 

 “How many Bryth?” Solomon’s heart was starting to beat faster, wondering how many archers had died because of his orders.

 “Twenty-two.” Bryth was grim.

 Twenty-two? Solomon sighed, hanging his head. My first true command and we lost twenty-two men? That’s a third of them!

 

I got Solomon's emotion from the first comment.  The later ones were unneeded.

 

 

LIke Andyk, I'm also starting to notice some of the lack of setting.  It's hard to tell where things are happening and how much time has passed.  There's also no detail on the Axians.  Are these just another batch of humans?  What is their armor like?  How are they differentiated from the Krytians?

I think the hardest part I have with reading this so far is that I don't understand the stakes of what they're fighting for.

 

Enjoying it though, and I look forward to more.

[Shivertongue]

Read this week's and the previous part, gonna comment on both here.

 

First off, the interactions between the characters were very well done. There were instances where you honestly did not need a line of thought/narration after the character spoke the dialogue, because the implications of that thought were well-established only a line or so before.This was covered above, though, so I'll move on.

 

In fact, everyone else pretty much covered what i would, but there was something I wanted to specifically point out. There are a lot of really awkward lines throughout both, lines that I had to read two or three times to get the full meaning of what you were trying to say. One such example:

 

 

Jessi grinned behind her father, only several years older then Solomon himself.

 

It took me several reads of this line to determine if it was saying that Jessi was only several years older than Solomon, or her father was only several years older than Solomon. And assuming that Solomon is Paul from the first bit, and if I remember correctly, Paul was referred to as barely being old enough to wed... Either there is an inconsistency when it comes to ages, or I'm getting confused. Neither is an effect you want.

 

Keep it up.

[jParker]

Like everyone else, I still have much the same reaction to the second installment as I did to the first: I struggle to care. 

 

We've a generic protagonist with abounding low drama and lots of OoC (e.g. soldiers don't sit around talking about their feelings, especially to POWs; they drink, bury it deep, and then die). Yes, now we have some belligerent sexual tension with Jessi, but it wasn't as if there weren't opportunities for interesting conflict before. 

 

However, I will say that the Baron does seem promising to me. An entitled nobleman who is now a major benefactor of the resistance--great opportunity. I would just hate to see that fall into cliche. 

[Endurant Archivist]

@andyk I hear you on the scenes. I'll rework more description into them. I'll change portions of the conversation with the Baron, but could you give me some more points where you felt you wanted to know more about where you were? The beginning, during the battle? 

 

@Mandamon yes, I changed his name. It may change again, I'm unsure between two names because of their implication in story. More on that later.

 

@Shivertongue Good catch regarding the poor sentence structure, thanks.

 

@jParker could you expound on your comments some more for me? About which soldiers are sitting around talking, the sexual tension as it relates to interesting conflict and what your views are of the Baron. I'm not understanding what you mean.

 

Thanks

[andyk]

@andyk I hear you on the scenes. I'll rework more description into them. I'll change portions of the conversation with the Baron, but could you give me some more points where you felt you wanted to know more about where you were? The beginning, during the battle? 

 

 

Pretty much every scene, to be honest. There's so little detail I can't picture any of what's going on.

 

I don't mean that you should dump big chunks of text in each time to set the scene - that would make it drag. But maybe think about the key descriptive or defining features that will help readers envision each location and each person, and find ways to work them in during the first couple of pages they appear in.

[Robinski]

I like the personal conflicts. I think the main one between Solomon and Tillian is well handled, and the byplay with Bryth is good, he and Solomon have a conflict too, although it is an amicable one. I also like how you convey Solomon’s lack of experience.

 

I had some issues with the section as detailed below. My main difficulties are (1) I'm struggling with the geography and the numbers, which I think could be tightened up. (2) I felt Jessi’s character was mishandled, she behaves childishly and doesn’t appreciate the gravity of the situation, I felt that she wasn’t credible. (3) We could do with a clearer vision of the technological situation, and there is one reference to a fantastical (fictitious) creature, but nothing else to suggest that this is a fantastical setting, that knocked me out of the story.

 

I like the pace of the story, I think there are good conflicts, but I think the set-up could be tightened up and helped significantly by defining (without info dumping, of course) the geography of the situation.

 

I think the language has a direct YA sort of tone. I'm not getting a great deal of complexity in the plotting or the character development yet, as evidenced by some of the minor (at present) characters. Obviously, it’s your story, so please don’t take this as a criticism of your approach, but the sort of think that I would pick up and keep reading would take longer to develop the characters and the situation. Given, that you’ve only submitted 3,000 words to date, I'm not feeling this as epic fantasy, but that’s not to say that we couldn’t have a very effective novella about a relatively small and localised conflict with massive implications for the region, country, etc.

 

I hope that these comments are useful. I'm certainly looking forward to reading more. I'm interested in how Solomon (not sure about that name, it has so many other connotations) fares against the seemingly insurmountable odds.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

I agree with Andy and Mandamon on the description, just some bits of colour. Good advice from some author (OSC?) via Writing Excuses, consider all of the senses - are there smells in a room, sounds, colours?

 

I echo Shivertongue's comment about some of the grammar, although I was less direct (read, hedging) about it :-)

 

I can see what JP is saying, but I would not put it that strongly - this said, Brandon, in Writing About Dragons course that some of us on here are going through at the moment, talks about making things unqiue, combining strange and familiar, etc. I think you could give some thought to that when you tackle the setting.

 

And I'll stress again here, because I find it sticking in my mind, I really think Jessi needs to be more interesting, mature, different - make her a bee-keeper or something (sorry, that was flippant!).

 

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Page 1 – So Paul has been renamed Solomon?

 

Page 1 – parchments

 

Page 1 – Transporting Axian injured

 

Page 1 – Sorry, it’s a style point, but in the section ‘How many Bryth?” Solomon’s heart was starting to beat faster, wondering how many archers had died because of his orders.’ I think you are telling after showing. We know from his question why Solomon’s heart is beating faster, you don’t need to explain it.

 

Page 4 – I like the conflict introduced by the deaths at the fort, and this Pine killing some of his own men, including Tillian’s son. I find the numbers surprising. I'm okay with 70 men ambushing 100 Axians, and even 300 men in a fort, I suppose, but Solomon talks about turning them back at the fort with, at most, 370 men. I imagine the invading Axian force to be in the thousands, otherwise it would be more like a raid, but I feel it’s described as an invasion.

 

Page 7 – Solomon’s teachers can’t be very good, you’ve mentioned them not really preparing him for some of the potential realities of war, and I'm surprised that he’s surprised that Pine has 5,000 men. Maybe I'm not remembering things well enough from the previous submission, but my recollection was that this was war (his father being way fighting elsewhere) maybe my recollection is wrong. Even if Pine had 500 or 250 – Solomon only has 48 remaining in his party. Does he have more forces at Greenpyke? I'm feeling that the numbers don’t stack up – or certainly that I'm confused by them – where are all the defenders?

 

Page 8 – Again, if his father only has 500 men with him, there are all the Krytian soldiers?

 

Page 8 – I find myself swithering about Solomon’s ineptitude or inexperience, I'm not sure he has the right to consider himself ‘mostly no inept’.

 

Page 8 – Whoa, I feel that this is the first reference to a fantastical creature. It disoriented me, as I don’t think there has been anything else to suggest it is a fantastical setting. I think an earlier clue as to what type of setting we are in would be useful – similar to comments made about the pistol in relation to the previous submission.

 

Chapter 2

 

Page 10 – I think you should change ‘daughter under me’.

 

Page 10 – I'm uncertain about Bryth’s position. I find myself wondering how he can argue with a Baron, but seemingly kowtowed to Solomon in the field even though he thinks his tactics are wrong? It goes on to Page 11, where Bryth is desperate for soldiers – isn’t it Solomon who is desperate for soldiers?

 

Page 11 – The phrase ‘some of an army’ is a rather childish expression. Solomon’s had training, surely he should refer to a platoon or a squad or something more specific.

 

Page 11 – Back to my earlier point, not Bryth is ordering the Baron around, and then on Page 12 looking at him for guidance.

 

Page 12 – Jessi comes across rather childish to me – she seems to be all grins and winking when hundreds of men are dying, the tone of that exchange bothered me.

 

Page 12 – To reinforce the earlier point, I don’t think the stage of technological development is entirely clear. My impression is that firearms are quite new, they only seem to have a handful. How many do the Axians have? No doubt, we’ll discover that.

 

Page 13 – So Ky’lan is in Comperio? I'm getting confused with the geography and the feudal system (if that’s what it is), who owes fealty to whom, where the places are and how big they are? I think this also ties in to the number of soldiers.

 

Page 13 – I predict that I will be confused by Bryth and Gryth further into the story, assuming that the both play a part going forward.

 

Page 13 – There are a few bits of grammar that are problematic, but I haven’t mention them, because we’re not about line editing, of course. This said ‘We just need to hold out several more days.’ stopped me in my tracks. It doesn’t make sense. Bryth needs to be specific – 3 or 4 days or some such.

 

Page 14 – Sorry, I'm really struggling now, Kryth, Gryth and Bryth – okay Kryth’s a place, but I don’t see any reason for having names that are so similar, I think it’s the sort of thing that societies avoid, I can’t think of any examples in Caucasian naming conventions that is as close as that.

 

Page 15 – I'd be interested to know what Bryth’s plan would be – surely if they don’t harry Pine they would need to evacuate Greenpyke.

 

Page 16 – I like the end of the chapter where Bryth makes a vain attempt to prevent Solomon from going to fight. I think it’s clear that he fears the earl’s son will be lost (in fact they all will). It’s a great example of how one word can show so much, completely dispensing with any need to tell. For me that word is the ‘just’ – in ‘Bryth just nodded’, nicely done.

[Endurant Archivist]

Whew, this is good...I'm listening. 

 

I'm seeing these issues you guys are bringing up as I reread, thanks for pointing them out to me.

 

What I'm doing is taking the document and commenting on where scenes can be improved and structured better. Then I'm including a prologue to introduce the world more, so that both the war and geography are better understood. This should help as to why they are unprepared. I'll work on the numbers. 

 

Really, I'm going to rework these first 5000 words and resubmit them to you guys in a few weeks. There are some serious faults in the story, not insurmountable, but I don't want you to have to deal with the same issues throughout the entire novella. 

 

Give me two weeks, I'll get you an updated copy, then I'll keep submitting the rest of the novella as it's reworked.

 

Thanks for the feedback, it's helping. I'm looking forward to getting you an improved copy very soon.

[Robinski]

I like the sound of a prologue, I agree that nothing is irreparably broken, and a prologue sounds like a good way to put everything into context without demolishing what you've submitted so far, which I definitely feel has good conflicts, decent action and a nice flow to it. I think you've got a good protagonist too in and interesting situation.

 

It might helped more if I'd finished writing some of the comments that I put in as early bullets!! Not to mention checking my post for typos (sorry). Here are those early points that I ment to go back and flesh out.

 

 

Page 1 – parchments - I was going to say that I was surprised they were carrying such a lot of paper work, and that Tillian had put tactical information in a personal letter.

 

Page 1 – Transporting Axian injured - I was wondering about how difficult it would to transport all those Axian injured - does Solomon have wagons or multiple pack animals? How many horses do the Axians have? Maybe I'm over-thinking that, but it did pop into my head as I was reading.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Robinski

[Endurant Archivist]

Agreed on the tactical info. It's there because the letter was the current prologue, but that will be changing. And yes, there are wagons, they got chopped during the rewrite. So...they're there...just somewhere in the scene description (that doesn't exist yet) 

[jParker]

@jParker could you expound on your comments some more for me? About which soldiers are sitting around talking, the sexual tension as it relates to interesting conflict and what your views are of the Baron. I'm not understanding what you mean.

 

Thanks

 

Sorry. The soldiers were Solomon and Captain Tillian; the soldiers that I've known don't talk about it unless they've had a substantial amount to drink. Even then, they tend not to be on opposite sides of the war.

 

The sexual tension (seemingly) between Solomon and the baron's daughter, Jessi. It seems like a pretty stock Sexual Tension situation, two people of similar age/compatibility, but some factor prevents them from acting on it. Usually one of them ignores this (think Romeo in Romeo and Juliet). It's common enough to be a trope, but not cliched if well-written.

 

The Baron reminds me of Sebarial of The Stormlight Archive or Rygel XVI in Farscape, this opulent regent who can at times be rather constructive. They're very interesting characters and provide a lot of conflict via their self-interest, but still manage to be vital members of the group.

[Robinski]

Yay, Dominar Rygel!   "Nothing a good meal won't solve, I'm sure."

[manaheim]

Finally getting to this... crazy week at work.

 

I haven't read the other folks' comments yet, FYI. (taking a page from Robinski's book)

 

Some of the interactions between the characters is great. I loved...

“I was just letting the Krytian know how short a time we’d be enjoying his company!”, though I did want to know what a Krytian was.

 

Also the part where he's talking to Byrth about the 5,000 soldiers.  Nice moment there.

 

However, most of the read-through I was confused due to lack of information about setting  Also some blocking issues that come out of it. One minute he's addressing Tillian on the field (or something), the next minute he's reading documents.

 

You also drop characters on us without any real description of them, any sense of who they are or why they're there, etc.

 

You have a couple POV issues where someone knows something they shouldn't be able to...

"Solomon’s heart sank, his arms limp at his side. “Wha…five thousand!” He whispered fiercely. Some men turned to look at him, wondering what was being said ."

 

Also, and just being honest, a lot of this is pretty rough. I don't know how much editing you have done yet, but there is a fair bit of awkward phrasing, confusing sentences, vague pronouns, incorrect use of possessive, etc. Having someone read it to you might help significantly. Just keep a pen and printed copy of the work on hand and mark anytime the reader looks confused or hesitates.  Those will be the areas you need to address.