Deus Ex Biotica

Chromium And Nicrosil

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So, some people are going around with the assumption that the people of the Elendel Basin don't know what the last two metals (Chromium and Nicrosil) are. I will admit that I am one such person. But do we really know that? Nobody mentions them in Alloy of Law, sure, but it might have just never come up. It seems odd for Sazed to leave them out of the Words Of Founding (the last part of the Words we got to see was him saying he'd reveal the last two metals, which gets confusing when we learn there were four new non-God metals at that point), certainly. The Sea People are rumored to have new metals, but that might just be a rumor, or a god-metal alloy, or deliberate trickery on their part.

The Brandonthology records no questions about this I could see. Do we really know, or are we just doing what we do best?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

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There's a point where it's indicated that there are sixteen known metals, so they probably have them.

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Can you point to where they acknowledge there being 16 known metals? I think that if they knew of Nicrosil and Chromium we would have heard someone mention them, especially in the Elendel Daily ad that hires out Allomancers, as a Nicroburst would be like, massively useful to that sort of company.

Edited by MindCanaries
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*AoL Spoilers*

Page 152, beginning of Chapter 9

This is from the very beginning of the chapter. There is nothing to indicate what the context is, so I assume that we're picking up in the middle of a conversation between Wax and Marasi.

"So we aren't sure yet what happened," Waxillium said, sitting on the floor besides the long sheet of paper covered with his genealogical results. "The Words of Founding included a reference to two more metals and their alloys. But the ancients believed in sixteen metals, and the Law of Sixteen holds so strongly in nature that it can't be disregarded. Either Harmony changed the way that Allomancy itself works, or we never really understood it."

Miles also has a thought about burning Gold (Page 243)

There had been considerable speculation about what a gold Misting really saw when he burned his metal. A past version of himself, certainly. Was it the person he had actually been? Or was it a person he might have become, if he'd chosen another branching path of his life? That possibility had always struck him as sounding reminiscent of the mythical lost metal, atium.

Since no one except Elend and Vin, to my knowledge, knew about Larasium, and no one knew about the special status of Atium and Malatium, I think it's reasonable to assume that Scadrialians (?) during the time of AoL think that they know all 16 metals - The 14 they have and the 2 that are "lost." Sazed's statement about the last base metal and it's alloy are simply a contradiction under this model, so no one is looking to find Chromium.

EDIT: Sazed talks about Atium being "the body of Ruin" in the Epigraphs, but the mistake could still quite reasonably be made.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Interestingly, Kurk, looking back at that conversation, I tend to read it in exactly the opposite way: the sixteen metals from the Ars Arcanum are all known, but people are confused by ancient references to Atium and Malatium.

I suppose both are plausible, though.

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Could be that the sea peoples have Chromium and Nicrosil, but not those in the Elendel Basin? We know they have them all when the second trilogy starts because:

Brandon mentioned the main character being a Nicroburst working with a S.W.A.T. team.

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I assumed that these two metals were the "new" metals that the people living in the south have.

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EDIT: Sazed talks about Atium being "the body of Ruin" in the Epigraphs, but the mistake could still quite reasonably be made.

It's not clear that the population had full access to the contents of the epigraphs. The Ars Arcanum mentions that knowledge of Hemalurgy was suppressed (for obvious reasons) so they at least don't have access to the ones talking about Hemalurgy.

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When I read Kurkistan's first quote from Wax, I thought he was saying "We have 16 metals, and we know 16 is the Holy Number. So why are there references to 2 more?" Which would mean Chromium/Nicrosil have been discovered.

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It can be read either way - either that the words of founding reference chromium and nicrosil which haven't been discovered and they have 16 metals known ( the other 14 and the lost metals atium and maltium) or as we have 16 metals why do we have references to these lost metals? It has only been 300 years since the metals were "lost" so between that and no direct reference to the metals outside of the ars arcanum I would go with they haven't been discovered. The largest evidence for this in my opinion is when they are trying to figure out how the vanishers get in and out so quickly no one suggests a nicroburst with a bendalloy misting.

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It can be read either way - either that the words of founding reference chromium and nicrosil which haven't been discovered and they have 16 metals known ( the other 14 and the lost metals atium and maltium) or as we have 16 metals why do we have references to these lost metals? It has only been 300 years since the metals were "lost" so between that and no direct reference to the metals outside of the ars arcanum I would go with they haven't been discovered. The largest evidence for this in my opinion is when they are trying to figure out how the vanishers get in and out so quickly no one suggests a nicroburst with a bendalloy misting.

I'm kind of thinking that they have 14, know about atium, and malatium and have references that Sazed left, two more base metals, one of which, cadmium, has already been discovered. This gives them the count of 18. I can understand how you could interpret the quote the other way though.

I think that they may have discovered chromium and nicrosil in the southern hemisphere. Whoever wrote the Ars Arcanum said that when Feruchemists store investiture in nicrosil, they definitely don't know what they're doing. This implies to me that whoever wrote the Ars Arcanum has seen a Feruchemist store investiture, or else the author wouldn't know what nicrosil did. And since he saw them using the alloy, they must have known about the base metal. However I'm not sure if there are any Feruchemists in the southern hemisphere, since the Terrismen spent most of their time in the far north.

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Whoever wrote the Ars Arcanum said that when Feruchemists store investiture in nicrosil, they definitely don't know what they're doing. This implies to me that whoever wrote the Ars Arcanum has seen a Feruchemist store investiture, or else the author wouldn't know what nicrosil did.

Ah - that's an excellent point! The writer clearly notes that even the people of Terris have no idea what they are talking about with regards to Chromiumminds. And since Terris clearly has ongoing cultural contact with the Elendel Basin, it is logical to assume that the people of the Basin do, too.

I suppose it remains possible that Nicrosil is still a mystery, however.

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*Sigh* I didn't see this post, so I was about to write up an epic explanation on this so I could make a theory. Oh well.

So I believe that Nicrosil and it's alloy are still unknown to the general population.

First of all, they aren't mentioned once in the book. You think that it would be mentioned, considering that the others (except the semi-useless duralumin and electrum) are all gone too.

Next, in Chapter Nine, there is the following dialogue:

"So we aren't sure yet what happened," Waxillium said, sitting on the floor beside the long sheet of paper covered with his genealogical results. "The Words of Founding included a reference to two more metals and their alloys. But the ancients believed in sixteen metals, and the Law of Sixteen holds so strongly in nature that it can't be disregarded. Either Harmony changed the way that Allomancy itself worked, or we never really understood it."

So Wax is confused. Why? Because Harmony said that there should be 2 new metals. But why doesn't that make sense? Because it breaks the Law of Sixteen. So what does that mean? That including the 2 new metals and their alloys, there are more than Sixteen Metals. That means that they haven't yet realized that Atium and Malatium don't really belong on the chart.

Now, some might say that if they had Nicrosil, that this conversation may have gone the same. But this next part wouldn't have:

"Hmmmm," Marasi said, sitting on the floor with her knees to the side. "I would not have expected that from you, Lord Waxillium. Lawman I had anticipated. Metallurgist, perhaps. But philosopher?

So Marasi says that the fact that he thinks about this stuff makes Wax a philosopher. That means that the general populace don't have too much discussion with the Allomantic Metals. It's a topic they're all aware of (from the newspaper and such), but it's not something that most people talk about a ton. But the Law of Sixteen seems to be something obvious from nature. My deduction (though others will disagree) is that for most people, they see the Law of Sixteen as being filled- with Atium and Malatium. They forget (or are tired of hearing about) the fact that in the Words of Founding it mentions TWO new metals and alloys. They're tired of hearing about the speculation, so it's a topic delegated to the philosophers.

Plus, there are the references to the "People from the Land Beyond" who have New Metals, as well as Mile's speech at the end where he talks about the people of red and yellow who will be the bearers of the new metal. Those both seem to be indicitave of Nicrosil being unknown to the General Populace. It's possible, however, that there are those (Terris Feruchemists? the Set? The Cigar Makers?) who know of this metal- indeed, it might be the true inspiration behind this diabolical scheme (besides the money). But for the general population, no. The New Metal is a topic for the tabloids and the scholarly.

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First of all, they aren't mentioned once in the book. You think that it would be mentioned, considering that the others (except the semi-useless duralumin and electrum) are all gone too.

Actually, Miles thinks of how even electrum is a more useful Allomantic metal than gold at one point.

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So, some people are going around with the assumption that the people of the Elendel Basin don't know what the last two metals (Chromium and Nicrosil) are. I will admit that I am one such person. But do we really know that? Nobody mentions them in Alloy of Law, sure, but it might have just never come up. It seems odd for Sazed to leave them out of the Words Of Founding (the last part of the Words we got to see was him saying he'd reveal the last two metals, which gets confusing when we learn there were four new non-God metals at that point), certainly. The Sea People are rumored to have new metals, but that might just be a rumor, or a god-metal alloy, or deliberate trickery on their part.

The Brandonthology records no questions about this I could see. Do we really know, or are we just doing what we do best?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

 

It makes several references to Leeching metal in Shadows of Self and The Bands of Mourning, as well as nicrosilminds being used in The Bands of Mourning.

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Ah - that's an excellent point! The writer clearly notes that even the people of Terris have no idea what they are talking about with regards to Chromiumminds. And since Terris clearly has ongoing cultural contact with the Elendel Basin, it is logical to assume that the people of the Basin do, too.

I suppose it remains possible that Nicrosil is still a mystery, however.

 

Nicrosilminds, not Chromiumminds, Deus.

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So my memory's really fuzzy atm, but Chromium mistings are called leechers right? I don't know in which book or when, but I distinctly remember the constables were going to call over their leecher to check a body out. Come to think of it, it might have been the priest's body in SoS.

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So my memory's really fuzzy atm, but Chromium mistings are called leechers right? I don't know in which book or when, but I distinctly remember the constables were going to call over their leecher to check a body out. Come to think of it, it might have been the priest's body in SoS.

Was in Shadows of Self, to make sure that a prisoner was not a hidden Allomancer...it was the guy who tried to shot Governor, the one with fake metalminds

Edited by Yata
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So we know that they have Chromium, but I think they know of Nicrosil as well.

In BoM, iirc, Wax recognized Nicrosil on the medallion

Edited by Onceler
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The Set knew about Chromium Allomancy, considering Suit had a spike making him able to leech Wax, but I'm not sure how far that knowledge extends

 

I thought that the general population knew about all 16, and at least atium (not sure about lerasium),

considering the collection of metals at one of the noble parties, and there was an empty case for atium

wasn't there? or am i remembering wrong?

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There is literally a leecher using their powers in the BoM broadsheets.

Wax recognized the sensation too, when Irich got him with the cube.

I think basically everybody knows about chromium. Seems the sort of thing Spook would want to know.

For all the questionable reasons of course.

Edited by natc
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