How to start/organize a Magic System

[Cstryon]

For a few years now, I've had my own magic system idea floating around in my head. I have ideas on what is possible, and what the cost if using it would be. I've decided a really want to build it. Get the system well defined and understood, in case I decided to really build my own fantasy universe and story, or help out some of my writer friends with their stories/worlds.

 

If anyone is willing to help, how should I begin organizing it? What format should I use to outline the limitations and possibilities? 

 

Thanks in advance, if I can get this going, you can guarantee the 17th Shard will be among the first to know what I came up with, and I welcome all suggestions and criticisms. 

[Swimmingly]

I say, start with listing what it can do, and what that costs, then get more specific from there. Run through everything a clever person could do with the magic.

[Cstryon]

So you're thinking like a rough list of ability and cost, and from there organize it?

[Swimmingly]

Well, from a narrative standpoint, magic is simply another tool, with more exotic costs than most, both for the writer and characters. You need to establish a causal relationship that stands up within the system - even if it's something as simple as, "doing x makes you tired," or "x has no cost, but is limited by y".

[Cstryon]

You mean like cause and effect, risk vs reward?

 

Would organizing it in a similar format like Pros and Cons be a practical way of doing so? Example: Power - Effect - Cost?

[11thorderknight]

For a few years now, I've had my own magic system idea floating around in my head. I have ideas on what is possible, and what the cost if using it would be. I've decided a really want to build it. Get the system well defined and understood, in case I decided to really build my own fantasy universe and story, or help out some of my writer friends with their stories/worlds.

 

If anyone is willing to help, how should I begin organizing it? What format should I use to outline the limitations and possibilities? 

 

Thanks in advance, if I can get this going, you can guarantee the 17th Shard will be among the first to know what I came up with, and I welcome all suggestions and criticisms. 

 

I think the first step is to decide why you think your idea is good. what is it about it that makes it interesting? how does it change the society of which it's a part?

 

second step is to think about how the users' life is changed by magic, and just as importantly, how is it NOT changed. meaning, does it make these people all-powerful wizards who can do whatever they want and are totally independent of anyone, or are they more like a professional, who sells his services to others? or are they shunned, and have to hide their abilities?

 

third step is, how does the magic make things interesting? what sorts of questions/issues does it highlight? 

 

once you get these major questions resolved, you'll find that the nitty-gritty of the details falls into place pretty quickly. PM me if you want to run your idea by me or want any other advice.

[Swimmingly]

Another way of approaching it, narratively, could basically be a rundown of cool things you want done with it, then adapting the system to that, changing both the objective and the method as necessary

[Cstryon]

Another way of approaching it, narratively, could basically be a rundown of cool things you want done with it, then adapting the system to that, changing both the objective and the method as necessary

That's an interesting idea!

I think what I'll do is start with the things I've pictured being done, and list those abilities with descriptions of what they do, and then list the costs of doing those things.

After this, I can list other things as they come to me, as long as they blend well with what is already listed.

[Gagylpus]

I have a Word doc about 50 pages long, single spaced, detailing my magic system, so you'd think I would know how to answer your question, Cstryon. (I did manage to pare that down to an 8-page summary, thank goodness, which I might post here sometime.) But I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all outline for magic systems. It really depends on the angle you're approaching it from. Here's my approach, to add another suggestion into the mix.

I started with some idea of what abilities I wanted and filled that out. I always like there to be certain symmetries in these kinds of systems, so that helped fill in gaps or come up with new ideas for abilities. (For example, in my system each element is associated with a colour; the opposite of an element is associated with the opposite colour on the colour wheel. Each element has analogous abilities, which helped to define the capabilities of the system.)

Once I knew roughly what I wanted the system to be able to do, I started designing the metaphysical framework, figuring out the cosmology and the interactions between the physical and magical aspects of the universe, trying to work out how my system functioned within the rules of the metaphysics I was defining. Sometimes this helped to further define the capabilities of the magic system, or led me to modify the abilities to fit the metaphysics.

This went through several iterations over the years (I think I'm on version 6 or 7), and I've probably spent way too much of my life thinking about it already. But the result is a systematic description of the magic system, consistent within its own metaphysical framework, where I have a good understanding of how everything works and what its limits are.

 

I really enjoy seeing other people's ideas for magic systems, and the crazy inventive (and occasionally disturbing) uses people come up with for said systems, haha. Looking forward to seeing yours.

[Sir Jerric]

If anyone is willing to help, how should I begin organizing it? What format should I use to outline the limitations and possibilities?

Short answer: As with most writing advice, use what works for you.

Which is a totally unsatisfactory response. What you probably want is examples of various tools that people have used in successfully designing magic systems, so you can sample them or conglomerate them into a method that allows you to develop magic systems of your own.

I've built a whole series of magic systems, as I mentioned in the opening to my thread about powers. So I ought to be able to share something, right? But when I put that question to myself, I found an odd answer.

I don't have a system for building magic systems. Not really. The one novel milieu I've built thus far had the basics of its magic system outlined before I recorded any notes. I have notes on how I detailed the system, but not on the design process that gave rise to the system.

This is a really interesting hole in my outlining process. I'm tempted to just throw one of my unformed ideas into a blank document and write up a magic system from scratch. All for researching my own process thoroughly enough to be able to sensibly compose a useful reply to a Seventeenth Shard forum thread. There would be several side benefits, but it all boils down to "That's a really good question."

In the meantime, I can start with this much:

1) Pick a goal, or several goals.

I usually have a particular power that I want to use. But sometimes, I am trying to implement a theme. Often, I'll be wrapping a theme around a power. Setting some targets will give you a reference to judge if you are staying on track.

2) Ask questions about the limits.

Use lots of basic "yes or no" questions. Use questions about the underlying Laws of Physics and define which ones you are breaking. Extrapolate additional techniques and adjust the "rules" to close off options you don't like. Ask questions about the availability.

3) Look at the consequences.

For every answer to every question, ask who, what, where, when, how? Build a society around the magic. If the consequences don't appeal to you, go back and redefine the limits.

4) Generalize.

Some of the "rules" will be aimed at limiting the scope of a particular power. But some "rules" can be broadly applied. Those generalized "rules" become the consistent elements that make the system feel like a system.

[Cstryon]

You guys awesome. Thank you all for the suggestions!

Well to help you guys help me, I think I should give you an idea of what I've got so far.

My idea has to do with manipulating space and time, but without time travel. Power users can bend space and time, allowing them to bend the space around them making it possible to do things like create a bubble of space around them where physical direction would be different than natural space and even change space in areas like on the other side of the room. This would allow them to change the path of projectiles, and even bend the shape of an otherwise static object, causing the projectile to miss, and even (after they stop using) breaking objects because they are no longer shaped naturally. Also, with practice and strength in the power, would allow them something similar to telekinesis.

Manipulating time would allow the caster to slow time giving them a chance to think things through (at first they'd be slowed as well) and with practice, allow them to slow time for everything but themselves, essentially giving them superspeed.

Another application would be to change direction for themselves or other objects, I guess giving abilities similar to a windrunner. Only they are not really affecting gravity, but the space around them making gravity pull in a different direction.

To go side by side, another system that would be different buy similar is a power that can put holes in spacetime. Allowing for creating wormholes, singularities, wiping things from the time line like balefire from The Wheel of Time.

I plan on making some devastating consequences to using the power, like insanity from experiencing life with time flowing at different speeds, physical ailments from parts of the body aging at different speeds, physical stress from having parts of the body not being in the same change of the shape in space as the rest.

A major obstacle I'm having is how do document it. Spread sheet? A list in a word document? Some other method I haven't considered?

[Sir Jerric]

A major obstacle I'm having is how to document it. Spread sheet? A list in a word document? Some other method I haven't considered?

How to document the various available actions, limiting rules, and syntax jargon of a magic system? What document format handles that kind of material effectively?

An instruction manual. =)

Seriously. I play lots of board games. I read the instructions, learn the system, and then enumerate the system for other players. The purpose of the instruction manual is to explain to the players what powers they have within the system, what the restrictions on those powers are, what costs are paid for each action, how certain actions interact with one another, sometime even consequences for breaking the rules.

They also provide the important function of teaching a consistent jargon within the framework of the system to provide clarity of interpretation. When I bring up the Metallic arts, most everyone who has read the Mistborn trilogy or the Alloy of Law gets the same meaning from sentences referring to snapping, burning, storing, and tapping, as well as knowing the meaning of a metalmind (or any use of the "-mind" suffix), Feruchemist, Allomancer, Misting, or Mistborn.

If my magic system documents are relatable to anything, it's an instruction manual for a game.

[Cstryon]

How to document the various available actions, limiting rules, and syntax jargon of a magic system? What document format handles that kind of material effectively?

An instruction manual. =)

Seriously. I play lots of board games. I read the instructions, learn the system, and then enumerate the system for other players. The purpose of the instruction manual is to explain to the players what powers they have within the system, what the restrictions on those powers are, what costs are paid for each action, how certain actions interact with one another, sometime even consequences for breaking the rules.

They also provide the important function of teaching a consistent jargon within the framework of the system to provide clarity of interpretation. When I bring up the Metallic arts, most everyone who has read the Mistborn trilogy or the Alloy of Law gets the same meaning from sentences referring to snapping, burning, storing, and tapping, as well as knowing the meaning of a metalmind (or any use of the "-mind" suffix), Feruchemist, Allomancer, Misting, or Mistborn.

If my magic system documents are relatable to anything, it's an instruction manual for a game.

That sounds like an interesting method. Would you be willing to send me one of your manuals (assuming you have it saved on a computer) so I could see an example? PM me if you would be willing and I'll give you my email.

Don't worry, I won't go stealing your work. Also I'm not big on playing board games, and don't even have anyone living near me that is into board games. It's your work, and as an asipiring artist/creator/hopefully one day writer, I respect the work of others.

[Endurant Archivist]

@Cstryon just use an online resource, like D&D instructions > http://dungeonsmaster.com/2010/01/a-beginners-guide-to-dungeons-dragons-part-1/

 

Not perfect, but you'd just start modeling your wording and descriptions off of that as a template.

 

Also, I would take some time to define your magic into two or three simple principles. Ex. User can manipulate the movement of elements in any direction for x amount of distance.

 

That way, it's much more clear then something like–manipulate space and time. I don't say that to be rude, I say it like someone who literally sat down last week to set down two clear-cut principles of my "magic" system. Ex. I pared it down from generic "I throw boulders with my mind!!" to specific "I can order the particles of earth to move as I want them too as fast as gravity/wind resistance allows" (this is not, in fact, one of my magic principles. Just an example.)

 

Also, read through Sanderson's own rules of magic. http://brandonsanderson.com/sandersons-first-law/ (There are three laws on his blog). He's clearly got magic down pat, so he's a terrific resource.

 

Hope this helps!

[Swimmingly]

Of course, this is only if you want something science-like - mystical magic works great, for example grammarie or Naming from the Kingkiller Chronicles. The universe still contains very scientific magics, but there's an element of mystery as well. Don't tie yourself too closely to physical laws, is what I'm saying.

[Sir Jerric]

I was going to suggest looking at the free previews of the Mistborn Adventure Game, which includes an entire chapter from the magic system rules. This has the added benefit of being a condensation of a system that you might already know from the books, so you can draw your own parallels.

Other resources include classes or other material on the subject of Technical Writing (Though from personal experience, most such classes use the assumption that dry, objective writing is optimal, which does not apply to selling yourself on the awesomeness of your magic system.)

You can also find most board game manuals online in the publisher's downloads pages. Gather structure ideas from those will be somewhat challenging, but if you want to try, some of the best manuals that come to mind are Carcassonne, Dominion, and Small World. Google those with "Board game manual" and you should find them rapidly enough.

As for "manuals" for my own magic systems, I'm going to hold back on that a little longer. I mentioned above that your question about the design process was an interesting one. I'm attempting to build a more complete answer to that question, and I will share the end product alongside the commentary on what I did. So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to work on that while I have a day off of real work. =)

[Cstryon]

@Endurant. Not rude at all! I am definitely following Sanderson's laws for this, I'm a big fan of hard magic. And I also agree with defining in more detail what the magic does instead of just saying it's manipulation of time and space.

@Jerric and Endurant. I will definitely look up those examples you provided. I'm hoping to have my system so scientific that it might as well be science. Of course, like Swimmingly said, I'm ready to throw in some mysticism. But with that I want it to be more for the readers sake. At some point down the line, the reader, user, or whatever will understand the science behind it.

I thank you all for your input. I think this gives me a good starting point. If any of you have more to add, I welcome the help and suggestions.

You can all count on seeing what I've got once I have something presentable.

[Sir Jerric]

That sounds like an interesting method. Would you be willing to send me one of your manuals (assuming you have it saved on a computer) so I could see an example? PM me if you would be willing and I'll give you my email.

 

As for "manuals" for my own magic systems, I'm going to hold back on that a little longer. I mentioned above that your question about the design process was an interesting one. I'm attempting to build a more complete answer to that question, and I will share the end product alongside the commentary on what I did. So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to work on that while I have a day off of real work. =)

You asked. I promised. Here is the delivery, in a separate thread to avoid derailing your topic. The manual is in the Step 6 spoiler box.