Ooktapus The Fierce

Fantasycon reading

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So, who wants to bet that Kaladin is going to spend the first half of the book unwilling to summon Syl and go all glowy-eyed, that there won't be any stormlight until the middle, and he's going to spend at least one scene locked in Roshone's jail?

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So, who wants to bet that Kaladin is going to spend the first half of the book unwilling to summon Syl and go all glowy-eyed, that there won't be any stormlight until the middle, and he's going to spend at least one scene locked in Roshone's jail?

 

Ooooh, bets! Let's hear some good ones! *gets notepad ready to record*

 

I'll bet heavily (to the tune of "I'll admit I was wrong") that you're pretty much entirely wrong. I do not predict any real reluctance on Kaladin's part (maybe a moment or two of internal "man, I wish this didn't make me glowy-eyed," but nothing that affects his actions) and find the idea of Kaladin "never again will I be locked up" Stormblessed submitting to incarceration laughable. ;)

Edited by Kurkistan
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Thanks Weiry!

 

I suspect that once Kaladin's bond with Syl is complete, his eye color will change permanent. Each order of the KR had different colored eyes, related to their order/essence, and it seems unlikely (especially considering the progression in fade time for Kaladin's eyes) that that was just the case while they were holding Stormlight.

Edited by rhandric
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But why would that matter? Cognitive identity only affects you when you're using magic to heal. If your theory is true, Kaladin's eyes should be brown while he's holding Stormlight, as it constantly heals him back to brown. Instead, his eyes turn back to their normal color when Kaladin abstains from Stormlight for long periods of time.

 

I think Kaladin's brown eyes are fascinating and I want to know more about the mechanics. If we go by the the Surgebinder-gemheart theory, maybe it just takes a day or so for all of his Stormlight to finally leave him and return his eyes to normal. This doesn't seem to explain why his eyes change color when he takes up Syl, though.

 

Honestly, I suspect that Cognitive identity affects you no matter what--for instance, I think that one of the reasons that Shallan's powers work so well is that she's changing the Cognitive identity of the people she's doing her lightweaving on.

 

It's entirely possible that I'm wrong--perhaps the investiture will lighten Kaladin's eyes whether he likes it or not--but I would like to consider the possibility that his eyes are fading back to brown because he doesn't accept light-colored eyes. 

 

Honestly, it could be both--perhaps in order to become a Windrunner 100%, he has to really accept his identity as a Windrunner (the speaking of the Ideals hints at that as a possibility). 

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The way he begins the video reminds me of when he was in Manchester for the Alloy of Law tour in 2011. He read the start of Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell that he had 'just written' on the plane over (for the Dangerous Women anthology). I waited and waited for that anthology to come out but never heard a peep from it, finally it arrived last November. I'm betting the wait is a lot easier when GRRMartin is not involved.

 

EDIT

 

So now that the Stones Unhallowed previews have begun does it get its own section underneath WoR? Plenty to speculate about in that reading... <_<

Edited by ChocolateRob
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TheKingOfCarrotFlowers, perhaps, but I would argue that saying the words is him accepting the identity as a Windrunner.

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Well, it's just that he rather arbitrarily is setting himself up to look like a deserter, cannot lie, they're in the middle of the Weeping, so no Stormlight (they wouldn't have set out spheres for the one conjured by the Stormfather) and Roshone, being obstinate and a gutless cremling, is going to see the worst in Kaladin. A very likely scenario could be Roshone claiming that Kaladin murdered a Shardbearer and deserted, taking the spheres and Shardblade with him when he escaped. Anything Kaladin does will be denied and explained away by Roshone (and without Stormlight, powering Surgebinding is going to be difficult for the beginning of the book), and Kaladin probably will not be able to use Syl in good conscience against darkeyed constables that he knew as a child, and who aren't going to actually kill him.

 

Plus, Roshone might hold his familly hostage against him.

Edited by Swimmingly
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I don't know, Swimmingly, seems a bit too contrived/unnecessary. It's one of those situations where the reader's just watching the clock and tapping his foot waiting for it to be over and things to get back to normal.

 

Also, I don't see Kalading having any problem opening twelve different cans of butt-kicking using Syl as a staff or something, or even just using a non-Shardic weapon. And even without stormlight he'll still be 12 times more competent than anyone who's likely to be kicking around Hearthstone.

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Rhandric, I agree regarding eye color.  I am guessing Kaladin's blade being a "live spren" has characteristics of the honor blade (eyes turn colors when used) and "dead spren" (eventually eyes turn color permanently).  IIRC it take Moash a week and we should be around that now but maybe it goes faster when someone like Moash spends the week focusing on bonding the blade.  I betting Kaladin's will be permanently blue over time.

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It was interesting, but I am worried about what this tells about next book.

 

I was naively hoping Kaladin would grow out of his misery and finally be his own man. I was disappointed to see him go back to his moody/whiny self so quickly.

 

I sincerely do not want to see another plotline where Kal is miserable, imprisoned and powerless. I liked him where he was finally heading at the end of WoR so this was deceiving, for me at least.

 

However, I have enjoyed learning more about the eye color issue. Some people have assumed it has to do with how a person views itself. It could be. Or it could be the eye color change only happens on Radian when they draw massive amounts of stormlight, which would mean Shallan is not getting creepy red eyes anytime soon.

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I'm thinking that since the everstorm hit Hearthstone then the parshmen Roshone had turn into voidbringers and killed Roshone, his young wife Laral and most of the town.

 

Kaladin will arrive in town to find most of it in rubble and find his father and mother alive have left the town with their four year old daughter.

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I've been wondering about something for quite a while now: can Parshendi (and therefore Parshmen) only change when they are outdoors? Spheres cannot be infused with Stormlight while they are inside, so maybe Stormlight and and (Storm/Void)Spren can't get through walls as long as they are intact, therefore they are not able to enforce Stormform. I can imagine that Roshone's house/keep is build sturdier than other buildings, therefore maybe the Parshmen haven't changed yet? That's pure speculation on my part, though :) 

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maxal:

I see where you're coming from regarding Kaladin still being mopey. But realize that this is only the very beginning of the book and that we are seeing him coming off of constantly using a large amount of Stormlight for a significant amount of time. That could easily account for his being more mopey. Investiture is in many ways like a drug. Now his "high" is over, causing him great fatigue. Therefore the way he is right now could well be a singular moment and he could progress as time goes on.

I personally think that having more immediate motives and a hugely improved situation in life will help his moodiness significantly. Even though his place in the world was much better in WoR than in WoK, he was still quite oppressed and also was focused on longer term issues, such as organizing the Cobalt Guard and exploring his powers. Returning to Hearthstone to help the people should be a bit more immediate, and I bet Radiant things will in general improve his moodiness, despite what this scene portrays.

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re: Kaladin being mopey, I'm sorry you feel that way but Kaladin is canonically depressed, that isn't something he is just going to "grow out of".  Kaladin's portrayal is a fairly accurate depiction of depression, and its a fairly important part of his character.  I for one welcome the depictions of non-neurotypical characters that Brandon created for his books, and I think they should be as accurate as possible.

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  • Sad Kaladin: First, yes, he has depression, but if I recall correctly it's seasonal, tied to the Weeping. Which is when this chapter takes place, so it makes sense for him to be at least a little down, even if he hadn't just possibly failed to save his family, while suffering from withdrawal. I don't think we'll get another book of Kaladin being mopey - that was his The Way of Kings arc. We are done with it - Words of Radiance wasn't about Kaladin being mopey, or about him being in prison, or anything like that - we just remember those moments vividly because how influential they were for him; Kaladin spent less than one out of the five books that composed Words of Radiance, so it's unfair to complain about that, especially since the ending promised us a more... energetic, driven Kal.

Listeners changing forms: I am going to guess they can only do it outside. Eshonai had to get out of the storm, and even the less conservative of her people could only hide from the highstorm for so long before the have to step out and embrace transformation. They have to be outside when the Stormfather, or the eye of the storm, or whatever you want to call it, passes over them; the thing that infuses spheres, the thing that brings the calm.

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  • Sad Kaladin: First, yes, he has depression, but if I recall correctly it's seasonal, tied to the Weeping. Which is when this chapter takes place, so it makes sense for him to be at least a little down, even if he hadn't just possibly failed to save his family, while suffering from withdrawal. I don't think we'll get another book of Kaladin being mopey - that was his The Way of Kings arc. We are done with it - Words of Radiance wasn't about Kaladin being mopey, or about him being in prison, or anything like that - we just remember those moments vividly because how influential they were for him; Kaladin spent less than one out of the five books that composed Words of Radiance, so it's unfair to complain about that, especially since the ending promised us a more... energetic, driven Kal

 

Technically he has depression *and* SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), they aren't the same thing, the latter is related to the Weeping but the main depression is going to be year-round.

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I've been wondering about something for quite a while now: can Parshendi (and therefore Parshmen) only change when they are outdoors? 

Great question.  

 

I would say yes, Parshman have to be outdoors.  I am guessing obviously but why do the red spren need an Everstorm at all?  Do they need the combination of the storm and the red spren?  

 

I wonder if one difference between Parshendi and Parshmen is that the former have to "let" the spren do the transformation?    My two reasons for wondering are 1) Eshonai has to convince the Parshendi to be transformed as opposed to just gathering them and exposing them to the red spren, and 2) the four Alethi armies were briefly exposed the Everstorm right before being transported to Urithiru and Rlain did not transform.

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re: Kaladin being mopey, I'm sorry you feel that way but Kaladin is canonically depressed, that isn't something he is just going to "grow out of".  Kaladin's portrayal is a fairly accurate depiction of depression, and its a fairly important part of his character.  I for one welcome the depictions of non-neurotypical characters that Brandon created for his books, and I think they should be as accurate as possible.

 

I get it he is depressed, but as a reader, I want my characters to progress and seeing Kaladin going back to being mopey is a huge let down for me. The interesting thing in having non-neurotypical characters (although I hate this term as I would have never identified any of the characters as such had I not come here) is to see them find ways to succeed despite their disabilities. Read bout them wallowing into endless self-pity is not interesting even if it is real-life accurate.

 

So yes, I do want Kal to move out of it or at least stop having one thought out of two on how he failed to protect people. It reminds me of Rand who spent 10 books crying over women who died in his service. Even if it was realistic, it still was not great character development.

 

 

maxal:

I see where you're coming from regarding Kaladin still being mopey. But realize that this is only the very beginning of the book and that we are seeing him coming off of constantly using a large amount of Stormlight for a significant amount of time. That could easily account for his being more mopey. Investiture is in many ways like a drug. Now his "high" is over, causing him great fatigue. Therefore the way he is right now could well be a singular moment and he could progress as time goes on.

I personally think that having more immediate motives and a hugely improved situation in life will help his moodiness significantly. Even though his place in the world was much better in WoR than in WoK, he was still quite oppressed and also was focused on longer term issues, such as organizing the Cobalt Guard and exploring his powers. Returning to Hearthstone to help the people should be a bit more immediate, and I bet Radiant things will in general improve his moodiness, despite what this scene portrays.

 

I know. You are right, it is an early overview which will get edited and re-written about a 100 times before it makes it to the final book. I am of course over reacting here. I guess I got too enthusiastic when I saw the link :ph34r: but I still want to see chull kicking Kal, not depressed Kal.

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Besides, him being mopey makes the occasions he sucks in stormlight and goes badass on everybody more rewarding.

 

Can we assume that the themes of this book will deal mainly with seeking justice?

 

Also, is chull kicking the Rosharian version of cow tipping?

Edited by Swimmingly
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Regarding Kaladin's character arc, I have wondered if his first real challenge in this book (and therefore his first chance at progression) will be the desire to take revenge on Roshone.  

 

Can we assume that the themes of this book will deal mainly with seeking justice?

Or maybe differentiating between revenge and justice?

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Or maybe differentiating between revenge and justice?

 

Great one.

 

It would deal with many issues our characters are currently dealing with. Where to draw the line between justice and revenge: when is it justified to kill someone and when it isn't. Kal may be walking a thin line regarding Roshone and perhaps still Amaram providing Dalinar fails to bring him to justice as I think he will.

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Moogle, on 09 Jul 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

You're right, they don't. They also don't change color when Szeth is 'just' holding Stormlight. Szeth either has something different going on, or else his bond to his Blade is not as strong as Kaladin's to Syl. Kaladin's eyes temporarily changed to blue all the way back in WoK, though, as Teft notes, so there's differences even there between Kal and Szeth.

Whoops. My bad. Time for a reread! :D
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The parshendi needed to be outside in a Highstorm to change forms.  The Everstorm most likely won't have the same restriction given that everyone was worried about the storm changing the parshmen as it passed.

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I'll bet heavily (to the tune of "I'll admit I was wrong") that you're pretty much entirely wrong. I do not predict any real reluctance on Kaladin's part (maybe a moment or two of internal "man, I wish this didn't make me glowy-eyed," but nothing that affects his actions) and find the idea of Kaladin "never again will I be locked up" Stormblessed submitting to incarceration laughable. ;)

 

But but but, then he could never lament about how often things start with him being put in prison...! Oh wait, that's a different character.

 

I can't see Kaladin being super mopey either...or more depressed than usual. However, other than his SAD, most of his depression so far seemed triggered by events, that is, it was circumstantial instead of clinical depression. Kal's always had a (good or SAD-related) reason for being depressed, so I wouldn't peg it on a different "neurotypical" personality (which, btw, isn't the right term considering that most people will suffer from some kind of depression at some point in their lives). That doesn't mean that bad things won't continue to happen to him, he always seems to have the worst luck...

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Kaladin will arrive in town to find most of it in rubble and find his father and mother alive have left the town with their four year old daughter.

The Everstorm just passed the morning of this chapter. If Lirin is still alive, he is currently doing medical triage with the entire town in front of his door.

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