CrazyRioter

Hoid founded the Worldsingers and Worldbringers

15 posts in this topic

Right this theory started when I noticed the near-identical names of the Terris Worldbringers and the Worldsingers from Wok, and also the fact that they have similar goals, it's hard for me to think it's a complete co-incidence. Also, Hoid has apparently been acting as a member of the Worldsingers. Also, I've read the Liar sample chapters and I recall that the character who later becomes Hoid was a member of an order of storytellers and teachers similar to both groups

So yeah, this is my poorly expressed theory.

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Its interesting, plausible and I like it.

It fits what I assume to be the character of Hoid and is just the sort of detail that I can see Brandon putting in to add depth without telling us about.

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Mi'ch was telling me that Brandon said that their similarity in names wasn't a coincidence. (That's hearsay, of course, but I trust Mi'ch.) So yeah, I agree.

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Do you think they might also have some connection to the Seventeenth Shard? I mean considering Hoid's connection with them.

If Hoid did indeed create them, he definitely could have some sort of ulterior motive in establishing those groups (then again, i could see it not be too =p), but still.

If Hoid did NOT create them, taking into account Mi'ch's report of BS's words, the Seventeenth Shard could have established them instead. Okay just thought of some wild ideas but what if the Worldbringers and Worldsingers are like training grounds for members of the Seventeenth Shard? I mean the SS are an organization, not a planet, so members must come from somewhere, and since they're worldhoppers, it makes sense that they recruit from multiple worlds. Maybe they choose outstanding members from the World- groups and recruit them.

I guess this becomes a bit convoluted if you then think about Hoid's connection to the SS (the Letter) and the Worldsingers (was one and mentored one). I forget but was Hoid ever a part of the SS or has he always been separate? answer/clues might be in the answer to that question? hmmmm

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We don't know the full details of Hoid's involvement with the Seventeenth Shard, only that he seems to be at odds with them and they are currently trying to track him down for some reason.

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I've had this same exact theory rattling around my head too. Hoid does seem to like telling stories as he shows up as an informant in Mistborn and a storyteller in Warbreaker.

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It seems very much in Hoid's character to have founded both groups, especially given their tendency towards both scholarship and storytelling. Perhaps most telling is just how important the Worldbringer's legacy was at the end of HoA. I can support this as a decent hypothesis.

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Perhaps most telling is just how important the Worldbringer's legacy was at the end of HoA. I can support this as a decent hypothesis.

That's a really valid point. I like this theory now even more because of this.

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While I like the theory, I don't like the connection to the Seventeenth Shard.

My reasoning: if Keepers were trained to join Seventeenth Shard, copperminds would know of it. Sazed would know it. And the Alloy of Law Ars Arcanum wouldn't depict the terrismen as not understanding the significance of some of their abilities.

Self Counterpoint: Ruin.

Edited by Pechvarry
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While I like the theory, I don't like the connection to the Seventeenth Shard.

My reasoning: if Keepers were trained to join Seventeenth Shard, copperminds would know of it. Sazed would know it. And the Alloy of Law Ars Arcanum wouldn't depict the terrismen as not understanding the significance of some of their abilities.

Self Counterpoint: Ruin.

You have a valid point if one assumes that everyone in the group was privy to that knowledge. It could be though that the 17th shard started the groups as a kind of prep school and that they did not inform the members of this until they were ready to graduate to full membership status in the 17th shard.

Also remember that all ferechemists that were alive at the time of the Lord Rulers Ascension became mistwraiths. Only the 1st gen kandra would have had any of the knowledge of the worldbringers. Even they might not of - We don't know if they could still use their metalminds after becoming kandra. I doubt they could. The Keepers were formed in the following generations and were based on the stories and legends of the worldbringers - not as a continuation of them. So the keepers might not have had any connection to the 17th shard even if the worldbringers did.

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One slight hitch in this theory that still needs to be explained:

Regarding the mission of the Worldsingers, Sigzil states, (p768 US hardcover)

I do not 'give tales.' I spread knowledge of cultures, peoples, thoughts, and dreams. I bring peace through understanding. It is the holy charge my order received from the Heralds themselves.

This doesn't rule out Hoid's involvement but I think this safely rules out Hoid being directly involved in their formation.

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Why? It would make sense for Hoid to give them a reason for existence, the Worldbringers were founded to preserve the knowledge being destroyed by the lord ruler so that one day when he fell it could be re-established. Hoid couldnt well tell the Worldsingers they were founded to give him somewhere to hide when he came back to visit.

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Also, Hoid has many, many identities and he could have had one that was associated somehow with the Heralds, thus the preserving the connection of the Worldsingers, the Heralds, and Hoid.

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Why? It would make sense for Hoid to give them a reason for existence, the Worldbringers were founded to preserve the knowledge being destroyed by the lord ruler so that one day when he fell it could be re-established. Hoid couldnt well tell the Worldsingers they were founded to give him somewhere to hide when he came back to visit.

The Worldbringers existed before TRL did. You're thinking of the Keepers.

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I could see Primordial Times Hoid being a voice of wisdom to the Heralds, subtly influencing them to create an order geared around preservation (concept, not shard... or is it?).

Also, thanks for heads-up about the Keepers. I didn't realize (or had forgotten) there were actually 2 lines of feruchemist terrismen with a distinct break.

Edited by Pechvarry
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