When Shallan finds out who killed Helaran.

[Patrick Star]

I was more under the impression that Helaran curved his trajectory specifically so that he could kill more of Amaram's soldiers.  Instead of going straight to Amaram, he stayed along the front line of the battle.  So yeah, purposeful and unnecessary.  He deserved to die in the manner that he did.

 

On a side note, maybe he'll be best buds with Sadeas in the afterlife?  They'll bond over their mutual hatred of Kaladin and their knife-to-the-eye deaths.  Maybe?

[maxal]

I was more under the impression that Helaran curved his trajectory specifically so that he could kill more of Amaram's soldiers.  Instead of going straight to Amaram, he stayed along the front line of the battle.  So yeah, purposeful and unnecessary.  He deserved to die in the manner that he did.

 

On a side note, maybe he'll be best buds with Sadeas in the afterlife?  They'll bond over their mutual hatred of Kaladin and their knife-to-the-eye deaths.  Maybe?

 

Well I think if Sadeas has an afterlife, he'll most likely use it to direct his hate more towards Adolin than Kaladin, but I agree the knife in the eye thing does call for a great bonding moment

 

I wonder about this tough.... Book 1 started with Kal murdering someone with a knife into the eye. Book 2 ended with Adolin murdering someone with a knife in the eye.... Are we going to see someone else go down with a knife in the eye? Is someone going to use the similarity between Helaran's death and Sadeas to pin the murder on Kal?

[Patrick Star]

I wonder about this tough.... Book 1 started with Kal murdering someone with a knife into the eye. Book 2 ended with Adolin murdering someone with a knife in the eye.... Are we going to see someone else go down with a knife in the eye?

 

I used to be an knight radiant like you... but then I took a dagger in the eye

[loke13]

If I remember correctly, Helaran came out of nowhere and started charging through some random soldiers just to get to Amaram. He had a task at hand: kill Amaram, but to do so he was apparently willing to massacre anything that came close. Kaladin's squad was not attacking him, in fact, they were trying to stay clean of him as regular spearmen typically are no match for a full shardbearer. Helaran did not care about that and he purposely killed men who were not a thread, but you know Helaran is SUCH a great man.....

When it make more sense to say that he was overtaken by the Thrill of combat than to paint him as some blood thirsty killer. The Thrill seems to be a creation of the Unmade and definitely makes men a lot more reckless and cruel than they need to be.

[maxal]

When it make more sense to say that he was overtaken by the Thrill of combat than to paint him as some blood thirsty killer. The Thrill seems to be a creation of the Unmade and definitely makes men a lot more reckless and cruel than they need to be.

 

Perhaps, but we have never seen Dalinar and Adolin massacre soldiers that weren't a thread when they are in the Thrill... They still seem to retain some sort of self-control.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

It's also possible that Helaran was just doing as he was ordered. If I wanted to undermine an enemy, not only would I want to take him out as the leader, but also take out as many of his soldiers as possible while doing it. All it would take is the difference between "kill Meridas Amaram" and "Attack Amaram during a border dispute, and kill as many of his soldiers as you can while accomplishing that goal." If the Skybreakers do have serious motive to kill him, I doubt that their problems would stop at his death. There's also his stormwarder who is most likely in on the Sons of Honor, and dwindling their resources isn't a bad strategic plan.

[maxal]

It's also possible that Helaran was just doing as he was ordered. If I wanted to undermine an enemy, not only would I want to take him out as the leader, but also take out as many of his soldiers as possible while doing it. All it would take is the difference between "kill Meridas Amaram" and "Attack Amaram during a border dispute, and kill as many of his soldiers as you can while accomplishing that goal." If the Skybreakers do have serious motive to kill him, I doubt that their problems would stop at his death. There's also his stormwarder who is most likely in on the Sons of Honor, and dwindling their resources isn't a bad strategic plan.

 

I was always under the impression the Skybreakers tend to target single individual. To order Amaram's death they must have had good motives, a crime of some sort to blame his death on. I failed to see how they could justify the death of random soldiers that were not attacking nor a treat. Spreading chaos just does not seem in line with what we know of the Skybreakers.....

[Fifth of Daybreak]

I was always under the impression the Skybreakers tend to target single individual. To order Amaram's death they must have had good motives, a crime of some sort to blame his death on. I failed to see how they could justify the death of random soldiers that were not attacking nor a treat. Spreading chaos just does not seem in line with what we know of the Skybreakers.....

 

Good motives-stop the desolations, which is a main goal of the Sons of Honor. As for having a crime to blame it on, they wouldn't need it in this case. Killing on the battlefield isn't a crime, and there's no trial. I believe that's why they tried to kill Amaram in that way. It was a loophole in their legality rules. And we honestly don't really know that much about the skybreakers, other than they uphold the law. This doesn't go against that, so I can't say that I agree it isn't in line with their goals.

[Voidus]

Stick!

[maxal]

Good motives-stop the desolations, which is a main goal of the Sons of Honor. As for having a crime to blame it on, they wouldn't need it in this case. Killing on the battlefield isn't a crime, and there's no trial. I believe that's why they tried to kill Amaram in that way. It was a loophole in their legality rules. And we honestly don't really know that much about the skybreakers, other than they uphold the law. This doesn't go against that, so I can't say that I agree it isn't in line with their goals.

 

True enough there was a battle and killing an enemy soldier during a battle does not require other motives. You must be right because as I was writing my previous message, I wondered what sort of crime Amaram may have committed in this past to satisfy Nalan. Amaram has always been considered as most honorable and from his interactions, he did not strike me as an evil bad resentful person ala Sadeas. I have always felt killing Kal' squad was pretty much the only stain on his reputation....

 

It could be it was the only way for the Skybreaker to remove a threat.

[AerionBFII]

If I remember correctly, Helaran came out of nowhere and started charging through some random soldiers just to get to Amaram. He had a task at hand: kill Amaram, but to do so he was apparently willing to massacre anything that came close. Kaladin's squad was not attacking him, in fact, they were trying to stay clean of him as regular spearmen typically are no match for a full shardbearer. Helaran did not care about that and he purposely killed men who were not a thread, but you know Helaran is SUCH a great man.....

Here is the quote:

 

 

The Shardbearer broke out of Amaram’s lines. He’d been riding through them, cutting down men as he passed. For a brief moment, Kaladin’s mind refused to acknowledge that this creature—this beautiful divinity—could be an enemy. The fact that the Shardbearer had come through their side reinforced that illusion.

Kaladin’s confusion lasted right up until the moment the Shardbearer trampled Cenn, Shardblade dropping and cutting through Dallet’s head in a single, easy stroke.

“No!” Kaladin bellowed. “No!”

Dallet’s body fell back to the ground, eyes seeming to catch alight, smoke rising from them. The Shardbearer cut down Cyn and trampled Lyndel before moving on. It was all done with nonchalance, like a woman pausing to wipe a spot on the counter.

“NO!” Kaladin screamed, charging toward the fallen men of his squad. He hadn’t lost anyone this battle! He was going to protect them all!

He fell to his knees beside Dallet, dropping his spear. But there was no heartbeat, and those burned-out eyes…He was dead. Grief threatened to overwhelm Kaladin.

------------------------------------------------------

 

Screaming.

Kaladin looked up. Amaram’s banner of green and burgundy flew just to the south. The Shardbearer had cut through Kaladin’s squad heading straight for that banner. Spearmen fled in disarray, screaming, scattering before the Shardbearer.

Anger boiled inside of Kaladin.

Edited July 30, 2014 by WEZ313

[Savanorn]

Pretty sure he was cutting through his fellow soldiers trying to assassinate their leader... be pretty bad if they didn't attack

 

Until he took a Knife to the eye....

 

Most of the rest of the troops were running, and Hel had already killed a few of them. I think they mob him and he cuts them down rapidly...all else aside it's actually quite an impressive display from him. 

 

I think it was a spearhead, doesn't Kal throw a knife and it misses but he grabs the spearhead?

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Oathbringer is landing soon! Does anyone want to get in on some last minute survey madness? 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[Walin]

Wow I didn’t see the post dates until you necro’ed this thread.

Man, I’m surprised there wasn’t any more discussion on this for three whole years...

I think that it would really enrage the fans if Shallan figuring out Kaladin killed Helaran ended Part 1, since making it be that dramatic would really be shippy. At least, if it was the last sentence. If it was in the second to last paragraph and Shallan realized her family didn’t matter as much as the Desolation, and it’s just a part of that, then I would be okay with it.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

9 minutes ago, Walin said:

I think that it would really enrage the fans if Shallan figuring out Kaladin killed Helaran ended Part 1...At least, if it was the last sentence.

 

I just had traumatic flashbacks to the end of "Shadows in Flight" by Orson Scott Card.

[AbsentKeeper]

Shame on you all for necroing this rotting corpse of a thread.

Also, I'll toss in a voted for [REDACTED] because [REDACTED]

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Cowmanthethird
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