Fifth of Daybreak

When Shallan finds out who killed Helaran.

The truth of Helaran's death.   105 members have voted

  1. 1. How will Shallan find out the truth about Helaran's death?

    • Kaladin will tell her.
    • Shallan will confront Amaram about it, and he will tell her.
    • Mraize or the Ghostbloods will tell her.
    • She will find out at Amaram's trial.
    • Dalinar or Adolin
    • RAFO
    • Stick
    • Shallanica Mars: Private Detective
    • Other (Please Specify)
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41 posts in this topic

Necroed

 

Shallan thinks that Amaram killed her brother Helaran, but she's going to find out the truth. At the end of Words of Radiance Amaram confesses to killing the men to take the Shardblade, and Dalinar promises to have a trial for it. When that trial happens, Shallan will find out about Kaladin killing Helaran. Or will she find out before? And how will she react when that happens?

Will her friendship with Kaladin be shattered by that?

I personally think Shallan will find out from the Ghostbloods, but as to how she'll react, I'm completely unsure.

Edited by Fifth of Daybreak
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I think Shallan will have bigger problem with Kal not telling her that in the chasms than the fact he killed her brother. She already recognized her brother's murderer killed Helaran is self-defense, so she won't hate Kal.

 

I think she'll learn the truth before Amaram's trial when Dalinar or Adolin will tell her what the trial will be about.

Edited by Aleksiel
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OHH, man. This is a revelation I'm really anticipating in the next book because there are a dozen different ways the crap can hit the fan.

 

After figuring out for myself what happened to Helaran, I thought Shallan would confront Amaram and he would use that opportunity to make Kaladin look like a bad dude. I thought Shallan would not take it very well. I thought it was time to wave goodbye to any sort of Shallan/Kaladin brolationship/romance. 

 

That didn't happen. In fact, Kaladin realizing he was Helaran's killer was pretty anticlimatic. I mean, he did have bigger issues at the time, but still.

 

As it stands, I still think Amaram will be the one to spill the beans. And I still don't think it will go over splendidly.  

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I don't have a prediction on this since it could be anything, really.

 

I do have an alternative suggestion though: she could figure it out herself. She has just about enough information to guess and if she then asked Dalinar or similar about it he could confirm it. However, I doubt she would start thinking about it unless someone or something prompted her to. (You might argue that this counts as Dalinar telling her but it could be someone else that confirms it for her, in such a scenario)

 

 

PS Before WoR came out I did wonder if we'd ever see a situation where Shallan thinks Amaram killed her brother and is about to kill/similar him for it and Kaladin is there - so, does he decide to let Shallan kill Amaram for something he didn't actually do or does he step in and stop her. Oh, that would be a hard one! But, it would fit perfectly with Kaladin's most recent oath - it would be right to protect someone from being killed for a crime they didn't commit, even if they are hateful. Just need to try him for a crime he did commit! Such a scene would still theoretically be possible except that so far Shallan is not showing any sighs of actually seeking revenge.

Edited by kari-no-sugata
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Shallan does not strike me as a vengeful person. She was angry upon learning Amaram "murdered" her brother. However, I believe she is smart enough to realize it was a war and Helaran was fighting on the opposite side. People die in wars, good people, on both sides. Helaran was killed in battle, he was not murdered. I fail to see how she could possibly held that against anyone.

 

However, she may get mad at Kaladin for refusing to share the truth with her, but mad at him because he killed a shardbearer striking to kill him? How can you be mad at a soldier for killing another soldier on the opposing army? What should have Kal do? Let Helaran go because he looked like a nice guy?

 

I think Helaran death won't pause much problem, grief probably, but no more than that.

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Four things here.

 

First, I highly doubt that Amaram will be going on trial anytime soon.  It's just a vibe that I'm getting.

 

Second, I don't think that Amaram's taking visitors.  After all, he DID just kidnap Taln and regrouped with the Sons of Honor.

 

Third, I could totally see Mraize trying to corrupt Shallan with this info, plus she won't have a chance to ask Kaladin about it (he's too busy awesomely flying around).

 

And Fourth, I think that Shallan will be a bit too busy with handling Sadeas' murder (and his wife) for her to act on this "discovery"

 

The only other way that I could see her finding out is if Syl or Pattern tell her (Pattern being the more likely).

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The only other way that I could see her finding out is if Syl or Pattern tell her (Pattern being the more likely).

 

How would Pattern know?

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I voted other... because the reasons given did not seem like all the possible choices that someone as clever as Brandon could come up with.

 

And as for how I think she'll find out, I'd say RAFO?  :D

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The Stick will tell her. The Stick knows all...

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How would Pattern know?

 

Given that Pattern spies on people while they're in the bath, who knows what he'll find out… 

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Given that Pattern spies on people while they're in the bath, who knows what he'll find out… 

 

LOL. I so love that scene :wub: And the one where Pattern spies on Dalinar and Navani getting busy............ I am dying for him to spy on Shallan and Adolin "intimate moments" only to go happily blabber to Dalinar about it :ph34r: Imo probably won't happen, but I can still wish ;)

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I get the feeling that either the Ghostbloods will tell her or that she'll figure it out on her lonesome, either way the revelation will probably spur her on to buy into the Ghostbloods for real.

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Well I had to vote Stick, but if I hadn't then I would've said at the Trial.

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Other: She'll figure it out on her own. 

WoR gave us some evidence that she is actually clever, not just mouthy, so I think she'll piece together that mystery without anyone telling her.

Also, what Patrick said: Amaram is not going on trial and won't be chatting with anyone from team Dalinar for a while.

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Four things here.

 

First, I highly doubt that Amaram will be going on trial anytime soon.  It's just a vibe that I'm getting.

 

Second, I don't think that Amaram's taking visitors.  After all, he DID just kidnap Taln and regrouped with the Sons of Honor.

 

Other: She'll figure it out on her own. 

WoR gave us some evidence that she is actually clever, not just mouthy, so I think she'll piece together that mystery without anyone telling her.

Also, what Patrick said: Amaram is not going on trial and won't be chatting with anyone from team Dalinar for a while.

 

 

 

I disagree:

 

 

"Let him go son," Dalinar said. "His reputation is broken."

"He is still a murderer." 

"And we will try him fairly," Dalinar said, "once I return. I can't imprison him-Shardbearers are above that, and he'd cut his way out anyways. Either you execute a Shardbearer or you leave him free."

WoR 76 The Hidden Blade

 

 

Also, Amaram is not regrouping with the Sons of Honor:

 

 

Regardless, I will have more information soon. When I next write you, I hope to do so from Urithiru.

WoR 88 The Man Who Owned the Winds

 

 

Hard to not run into Dalinar's party when you're living in the same tower as them, and the only way in or out is by utilizing key members from Dalinar's party. 

Edited by EMTrevor
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Do the ghostbloods even know  that it was kaladin, and not amaram, who killed helaran? I doubt they do; they have spies, but only a half dozen people witnessed kaladin killing helaran or amaram killing his companions and branding him. So, the ghostbloods probably assumed amaramm did the killing.

 

As for kaladin, I think he'll be too afraid to tell shallan.

 

So the most likely scenario i see is that adolin or dalinar will tell, probably without realizing the importance of the fact.

 

Still, I doubt shallan will be angry. she perfectly understands that kaladin was fightin an enemy in the battlefield, and according to what he knew at the time, amaram was the good guy and helaran the bad one.

In facct, it's been far from the last time when kaladin makes a bad decision on missing information. see side carry on plateau assault, or trying to challenge amaram after winning the duel, or deciding to let the other guys assassinate elokar for having been accomplice of roshone.

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I think she will be mad that he didn't admit it while they had the heart to heart during the Highstorm.

She's not my favourite character but she's a smart girl and her bro was in the wrong...

I think they will get over it

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I think she will be mad that he didn't admit it while they had the heart to heart during the Highstorm.

She's not my favourite character but she's a smart girl and her bro was in the wrong...

I think they will get over it

 

Well Shallan is known to distort the truth around her and to refuse to face the facts she finds difficult to assume. She sees Helaran as a grand man and she bluntly dismiss how he failed to truly help her and her brothers, how he abandoned them to their abusive father to go seek justice with a bunch of murderers.

 

It may be a while before she is able to face this truth....

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Hhahaha lol "distort the truth around her" you nailed it sir!

have an upvote!

 

Yeah i think it will cause problems but i think she would get over it, even if Amaram is a bastard who deserved to be gutted Kal was only doing his job.

 

"poor Helaran he was so helpless, such a good man" 

(Using Shallan logic to overlook the fact her brother killed most of Kaladins friends and was wearing Shardplate and had a Shardblade raining hell on earth and slaughtering everything in sight)

Edited by WEZ313
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Hhahaha lol "distort the truth around her" you nailed it sir!

have an upvote!

 

Yeah i think it will cause problems but i think she would get over it, even if Amaram is a bastard who deserved to be gutted Kal was only doing his job.

 

"poor Helaran he was so helpless, such a good man" 

(Using Shallan logic to overlook the fact her brother killed most of Kaladins friends and was wearing Shardplate and had a Shardblade raining hell on earth and slaughtering everything in sight)

 

Well, Kaladin's friends were soldiers and they did attack Helaran. Well, most of them. 

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Hhahaha lol "distort the truth around her" you nailed it sir!

have an upvote!

 

Yeah i think it will cause problems but i think she would get over it, even if Amaram is a bastard who deserved to be gutted Kal was only doing his job.

 

"poor Helaran he was so helpless, such a good man" 

(Using Shallan logic to overlook the fact her brother killed most of Kaladins friends and was wearing Shardplate and had a Shardblade raining hell on earth and slaughtering everything in sight)

 

Thanks :D

 

Yeah I could see Shallan blaming Kaladin for failing to see, on a battle field, how great of a man that wild shardbearers charging and hacking through his squad was :ph34r:

 

Kal did no wrong in this scene. In fact, he acted honorably, defending his commanding officer. If Shallan holds it against him, it will seriously hampered their relationship as you can't blame a soldier for killing an enemy soldier during a battle. You just can't. Death is what happen during war. I am hoping Shallan will realized that, not because I want her to develop a romantic relationship with Kaladin (as I don't), but I would not want her to become petty over Helaran.

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I agree COMPLETELY!

With each new book we can see all the characters growing. I don't want Kal and Shallan involved romantically either.

I think it will be a hurdle that they will have to overcome but it will make great reading :B

Sooooooooo exited to see book 3

Look I have goosebumps~~~~~~

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See, I'm imagining Shallan attacking Kal with Pattern, making him use Syl to defend himself, while the spren have a "Well, this is kinda awkward" conversation.

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Well, Kaladin's friends were soldiers and they did attack Helaran. Well, most of them. 

Pretty sure he was cutting through his fellow soldiers trying to assassinate their leader... be pretty bad if they didn't attack

 

Until he took a Knife to the eye....

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Pretty sure he was cutting through his fellow soldiers trying to assassinate their leader... be pretty bad if they didn't attack

 

Until he took a Knife to the eye....

 

If I remember correctly, Helaran came out of nowhere and started charging through some random soldiers just to get to Amaram. He had a task at hand: kill Amaram, but to do so he was apparently willing to massacre anything that came close. Kaladin's squad was not attacking him, in fact, they were trying to stay clean of him as regular spearmen typically are no match for a full shardbearer. Helaran did not care about that and he purposely killed men who were not a thread, but you know Helaran is SUCH a great man.....

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