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Theory: Hemalurgy will bring Kelsier back

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So I was reading Brandon's old write-up for the Suvudu Cage Match fight between Kelsier and Moiraine (which is hilarious. Here's a link.) and I saw this part:

 

“Well,” Kelsier said, “I don’t think it matters if you came back. We could just say this is me from the middle of the first Mistborn book. Besides, I think I eventually got better myself.”

“Doesn’t count. You became a disembodied voice that may or may not have actually been speaking into the mind of a young boy who was probably insane.”

“Yes,” Kelsier said, “but my series has a long way to go yet. Who knows what could happen? I’ve heard that some very remarkable things can happen with spikes . . .

(Emphasis mine)

 

So I think that somehow, people will put Kelsier's consciousness into a hemalurgic spike, and then graft it onto a living person's soul.  Does this seem possible/likely to you guys? 

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No:

1. Kelsier is dead, so they can't take his consciousness. Nobody did it while he was alive

2. It wouldn't be fun to read. One thing I like about Sanderson is that his characters can die. He already brought characters back in other books (which really annoys me) and shouldn't do it now. It would remove all suspense from fights because we know the characters won't die. Kelsier is awesome, and I don't want him to be tainted by a resurrection.

Edited by Samh9
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Also not sure how you would attain Kelsier's consciousness. I am far from the authority on hemalurgy (that distinction seems to below to, if i recall him screen name correctly, Swimmingly) but I think you need to spike something to charge the spike. If that is the case, then first all that is left of Kelsier's body is bones, since the kandra Tensoon ate the flesh to appear as him to the rebels. So I do not beleive that is enough left to spike. Secondly, Kelsier's conciousness left his body for quite some time ago, so even if the remains could be used, I do not believe his consciousness could be pulled from that. Other than that, I have no idea how one would get their hands on Kelsier's consciousness nonetheless have it in any significant portion enough to subsume another person in their body. 

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I disagree that you need to spike something to Invest a spike. I think if Hoid or someone ended up in the Cognitive, and Kelsier was willing, he could just fling himself into the spike and that would be sufficient.

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I disagree that you need to spike something to Invest a spike. I think if Hoid or someone ended up in the Cognitive, and Kelsier was willing, he could just fling himself into the spike and that would be sufficient.

Not saying it is impossible, but have we seen any instance where this occurred or was shown to be possible? I have a relatively rudimentary understanding of realmatics, so if it was mentioned there, I would be happy to learn. 

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Not saying it is impossible, but have we seen any instance where this occurred or was shown to be possible? I have a relatively rudimentary understanding of realmatics, so if it was mentioned there, I would be happy to learn. 

 

The trick is that all Investiture likes to go into certain things. On Roshar, it's attracted to gemstones, on Scadrial it's attracted to metal, that sort of thing. A Cognitive Shadow is probably made of Investiture, so if it goes near any sort of metal it can probably get trapped in it, much like spren (Cognitive transformative entities) are trapped in gemstones.

 

Not confirmed by any means, but it wouldn't surprise me. I'd also not be surprised if such a spike didn't decay with time, since it wasn't created in the normal soul-ripping way.

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we know from what hoid does that you can do much cooler stuff than we're used to with realmatics. so yes, probably it is possible in some way.

however i don't see it happening. bringing back characters from the death too often removes suspence from the books. As much as i liked kelsier, he will stay dead.

Also, i felt since the first few chapters of mistborn that kelsier was going to die because he's way too much competent, and there's not enough tension in overcoming a challenge if he is the one doing it.

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however i don't see it happening. bringing back characters from the death too often removes suspence from the books. As much as i liked kelsier, he will stay dead.

 

WoR:

So Szeth, Syl, and Jasnah dying and coming back (all in one book!) is something you'd think Brandon would never write? :P

Edited by Moogle
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WoR:

So Szeth, Syl, and Jasnah dying and coming back (all in one book!) is something you'd think Brandon would never write? :P

exactly my point; he already filled his character-that-can-be-brought-back-from-death-without-it-feeling-cheesy quota with wor, and then some more.

seriously, when both jasnah and szeth were resurrected in a few pages, i had a little bit of annoyance, like "ok, now he's overdoing with the plot twists". albeit it was not specific to the resurrections, but more related to the huge amount of twists pulled in so few pages. don't get me wrong, i still loved wor probably like no other book before, but it came dangerously close to the point where i stop caring for the plot because it get turned on its head too many times. it avoided it because it was solidly built.

P.S. I specifically didn't mention syl because i never believed she was dead for a moment. it's always been clear to me that she would return if kaladin went back to honorable. it's the human equivalent of being in a coma maybe

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WoR:

So Szeth, Syl, and Jasnah dying and coming back (all in one book!) is something you'd think Brandon would never write? :P

In his defense, he didn't originally intend to kill Szeth, but I guess all that whining about oaths and being in pain, Brandon had no other choice lol

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The reason I don't think he'll be afraid of bringing Kelsier back is that it's clear that Kelsier never moved on.  He was hanging out in the Cog realm in Hero of Ages.  It wouldn't be a plot device to have him find a way to affect the physical realm again by grafting himself onto a living person's soul.  

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Except that, to almost all readers, it actually wasn't that clear. We only know it because we're so obsessive. Having him come back again would be totally out of the blue for most people. I'd love seeing him interfere in small ways, like Harmony does, but anything more shouldn't happen.

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wouldn't it be fairly easy for him to come back, im not familiar with all the theories, facts, and such, but we know hes around because at the end of HoA Sazed said he had spoken to him and Ven and they were happy etc so his consciousness/soul is still there just no one knows how to bring him back, except probably Sazed I would assume. Plus I could definetly see him coming back as a shadowy mysterious "who in the hell is that random PoV character" until BAM he does some crazy rust and is all like, "Yeah that was me, Kelsier". And I see his coming back as him being at a HUGE disadvantage for him compared to anyone else, like if we time traveled someone from the 17th century to the 21st, with all the technological advancements that have taken place he could be killed in seconds just because he isn't aware of what the hells going on.

 

Kind of a rant, sorry

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Here are some more quotes to get you thinking:

 

AETHLING

Is there a chance that any dead protagonists will miraculously come back (IE Vin, Elend, Lightsong) to help fight later battles? You have shown Kelsier having influence after he died, and Sazed makes a statement about keeping in touch with Vin and Elend.
BRANDON SANDERSON

I don't want to be unsympathetic to people's love for these characters, but I feel that as a writer I must resist the urge to bring back characters in this manner. I feel it would undermine my storytelling. I never want to get to the point where people read and the tension of a character being in danger is ruined by the thought, "Well, even if they die, they'll probably just be brought back in the future."

I'm not saying I won't ever do it, but I want to be very sparing. I like how Robert Jordan did it with a certain character's return in TofM. It was foreshadowed, built into the story itself, and relevant.

There are characters--in the 36-book-cosmere-superoutline--who return when thought dead. Some have not met their perceived end yet, while others have. So it's going to happen, but I want it to be very rare.

 

http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=977#199

 

SHARDFAN ()

Hope I'm not too late! This question does contain spoilers for the first Mistborn book. I'm electronically inept to a degree so that's all the warning anyone will get.... Seriously, though.

Did you intend for the reader to almost believe Kelsier would come back to life... or was I just sort of crazy?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, I did. And whether he is completely gone or not is actually something I want to be more nebulous than many people think it is.

 

http://theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=979#151

 

QUESTION

At the end of the trilogy Sazed communicates with Kelsier so there is something going on with an afterlife. Is it uniform across the cosmere?
BRANDON SANDERSON
What is happening there is not actually technically an afterlife, well it kind of is, it is what we call a cognitive shadow its when your spirit is not moving on yet. So there is a Beyond but there is a—basically it is what we would call in our world a ghost, and there are actually magic systems based around that. Actually the story I have coming out in George R.R. Martin's next anthology is a ghost story involving this same—yes it is cosmere based. Yes, that would be consistent, they don't all have the same mythology regarding it. But it would be consistent, what happened with Kelsier could have happened on any of the planets.

 

FEJICUS

At the end of Alloy of Law, Marsh tells Marasi, that Wax is doing "his brothers work". Does this mean Kelsier is still meddling, or is this a continuation of his initial legacy?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Kelsier has never been good at doing what he's told. He's still interfering.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=706#6

 

READERAT2046

Is it at all possible for Kelsier to be reincarnated/posess someone/show up as a ghost/whatever and become a character in a future Mistborn book?
BRANDON SANDERSON
He's shown up before, so I'd say that's a pretty good indication for the future.

 

Personally, while I think he is going to continue to be around, I don't think he will ever come back physically. But of all the characters, he has set this one up as possible.

Edited by lyht
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I doubt he'll come back as a full-fledged character.

More likely it'll be as a occasional voice or vision to push the main characters onto the right path, nothing major.

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Maybe in the third trilogy they'll build a computer thing for a spaceship and Kelsier will posses it and become the navigation and crazy background character. or what Kal Dell said.

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Maybe in the third trilogy they'll build a computer thing for a spaceship and Kelsier will posses it and become the navigation and crazy background character. or what Kal Dell said.

Kelsier the space ship.....how could that POSSIBLY go wrong? lolol

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WoR:

So Szeth, Syl, and Jasnah dying and coming back (all in one book!) is something you'd think Brandon would never write? :P

 

Technically though, I wouldn't consider either Syl or Jasnah dead. Syl was comatose (kind of); Jasnah was just...obvious. So, that's just once, not thrice.

 

Hmmm, I think that Kell might take the title "Lord of the Mists" a little to seriously (somehow), okay, he already did, but it would be interesting if his Cognitive Shadow could only take on a (very limited) physical aspect when the mists were out...

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If he ever makes his way to Roshar, would he become a Spren like being or something different? Because if he becomes something akin to a Spren then he could potentially gain a Nahel-bond with some lucky bugger.

 

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Not saying it is impossible, but have we seen any instance where this occurred or was shown to be possible? I have a relatively rudimentary understanding of realmatics, so if it was mentioned there, I would be happy to learn. 

 

Kandra first generation, would be my thought. Also the WoB about awakening someones body with their Breath.

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If Kelsier was Spiked into another person they wouldn't become Mistborn would they? Because without Mistborn powers Kelsier becomes somewhat useless.

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If Kelsier was Spiked into another person they wouldn't become Mistborn would they? Because without Mistborn powers Kelsier becomes somewhat useless.

although cliche, if kelsier spiked into another person, still DID have all his mistborn powers, then we may know the identity of the modern day mistborn serial killer. it has been said in the books, in any other age kelsier would be a criminal (more so than a thief) rather than a freedom fighter. but i hope thats not the case

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