Feruchemy Specifics

[Walter The Moral]

Hello all!
I was in a Reddit conversation a few days ago and I realised something interesting. Since Copper stores the memories from a certain time, the other metals are probably storing the specific attribute at the exact time that you store it. If a Cadmium Ferring was in a room filled with Nitrogen, and they started storing breath, when they then tap that breath they may die due to lack of oxygen, despite the fact that they stored breath. This may also be true for a Bendalloy Ferring. What if a subsumer ate poisoned food, and then stored it. Would the poison be neutralised? And then when they tap for nutrients, would they be poisoned?

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts!

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Walter The Moral said:

Hello all!
I was in a Reddit conversation a few days ago and I realised something interesting. Since Copper stores the memories from a certain time, the other metals are probably storing the specific attribute at the exact time that you store it. If a Cadmium Ferring was in a room filled with Nitrogen, and they started storing breath, when they then tap that breath they may die due to lack of oxygen, despite the fact that they stored breath. This may also be true for a Bendalloy Ferring. What if a subsumer ate poisoned food, and then stored it. Would the poison be neutralised? And then when they tap for nutrients, would they be poisoned?

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts!

Yes, I think your reasoning is very valid. Storing breath in cadmium will store what you "have" in your lungs. If you're in a CO environment, you can store it, later tap and poison yourself with CO. The same way with pure N air or pure O air. 

But that can be useful for divers, instead of carrying huge and heavy air tanks, they can just store the right mixture of air under normal pressure in cadmium, and later tap it 2 or 3 times the normal amount to get correct pressure in their lungs. Even better, I don't know how mixture of air is changed depending on depth, but they can have several metalminds, one for storing pure oxygen, other for pure nitrogen, next for pure helium, and pure CO2. I'm pretty sure a skilled Ferring would be able to store just one element in their cadmiumminds if he wants, therefore he can dive without opening his mouth and storing CO2 in metalminds, while tapping the correct mixture of air with correct multiplication for pressure. Quite a useful thing when you split it like that. 

Or go into a room filled with CO and store just CO in metalminds, while breathing the air normally, just to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning.

And the same goes with F-bendalloy - instead of just tapping poisoned food (which if you stored poisoned food, you would get that poison back when tapping), why couldn’t a skilled Ferring store just a poison in his metalminds and enjoy food normally, to the irritation of all assassins who tries to kill him? Yes, someone unaware could do what you said, tap poisoned food and poison himself, but someone more careful could store just poison inside. This would require him to know what poison it is, he can't just store things blindly, but that can be done as Straff showed us with A-tin or F-tin. Such person would be just immune to poisoning.

[Walter The Moral]

Quote

Yes, I think your reasoning is very valid. Storing breath in cadmium will store what you "have" in your lungs. If you're in a CO environment, you can store it, later tap and poison yourself with CO. The same way with pure N air or pure O air. 

But that can be useful for divers, instead of carrying huge and heavy air tanks, they can just store the right mixture of air under normal pressure in cadmium, and later tap it 2 or 3 times the normal amount to get correct pressure in their lungs. Even better, I don't know how mixture of air is changed depending on depth, but they can have several metalminds, one for storing pure oxygen, other for pure nitrogen, next for pure helium, and pure CO2. I'm pretty sure a skilled Ferring would be able to store just one element in their cadmiumminds if he wants, therefore he can dive without opening his mouth and storing CO2 in metalminds, while tapping the correct mixture of air with correct multiplication for pressure. Quite a useful thing when you split it like that. 

Or go into a room filled with CO and store just CO in metalminds, while breathing the air normally, just to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning.

And the same goes with F-bendalloy - instead of just tapping poisoned food (which if you stored poisoned food, you would get that poison back when tapping), why couldn’t a skilled Ferring store just a poison in his metalminds and enjoy food normally, to the irritation of all assassins who tries to kill him? Yes, someone unaware could do what you said, tap poisoned food and poison himself, but someone more careful could store just poison inside. This would require him to know what poison it is, he can't just store things blindly, but that can be done as Straff showed us with A-tin or F-tin. Such person would be just immune to poisoning.

Thanks for your response, that makes a lot of sense.

There is one other strange thing that I think you could do with Feruchemy, although it contains very minor spoilers for Secret Project 4:
 

Spoiler

In Secret Project 4, The Sunlit Man, people can't go out into the Sunlight because it is so incredibly hot. The sunlight is also heavily invested. So, could someone walk out into the light and store the heat, so that they could survive? I'm sure it would take a very large metalmind, but it could be done. You would get a lot of heat in a very short period of time, which could be very useful. Also, seeing as the sunlight is invested, could you store that Invested heat in the brass metalmind? Or would it have to be in Nicrosil?

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Walter The Moral

[alder24]

Just now, Walter The Moral said:

There is one other strange thing that I think you could do with Feruchemy, although it contains very minor spoilers for SP4,

The title of SA4 is considered to be a spoiler, please edit it out, clicking "edit" at the bottom of your post. Here is list of useful tips when writing posts on the forum:

Spoiler

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Hope that helps.

 

SA4 spoilers in response:

Spoiler

Yes, a brass Ferring who can store heat, can start storing all that heat from the sun and just be fine on the dayside of that planet. But the sun there is also very invested (IIRC) so the investiture alone might cause harm that a brass Ferring can't negate. That investiture emitted by the sun is different from heat. A Brass Ferring can't store investiture. A nicrosil Ferring might be able to store that kind of investiture (it is unknown right now, for all we know F-nicrosil stores the ability to use investiture, like Allomancy/Feruchemy, not pure investiture itself, like Mists etc.). 

But if you have a Nicrosil Ferring with Malwish F-brass medallion for storing heat, he might be able to store investiture from the sun, while certainly be able to store heat in his medallion.

WoB on heat storing when in fire:

Spoiler

Thoughtful Spurts

If tapping heat means your own body gets hotter, does it also mean you become immune to hot temperatures so long as you're tapping it, or should you fill heat and grow colder for that to happen?

Brandon Sanderson

As everything in Feruchemy, you become immune to the effects of the ability only. Like weight doesn't crush you, but at the same time doesn't have a net gain in strength. Growing colder, however, would be more helpful in this regard.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

 

 

[Walter The Moral]

6 minutes ago, alder24 said:

The title of SA4 is considered to be a spoiler, please edit it out, clicking "edit" at the bottom of your post. Here is list of useful tips when writing posts on the forum:

 

Thanks for the tip!

[cometaryorbit]

I actually don't think it works this way. If cadmium stores oxygen in a breathable form, that's O2, not the oxygen atom in CO - for the same reason that you can't Steelpush on metal oxide rocks like limestone/marble.

Also, cadmium and bendalloy are "Hybrid" metals, not pure Physical... just like Gold, which stores more of a Spiritual health (correspondence between the Physical state of the body and the Spiritual ideal) than just "rate of healing wounds" or "immune system strength".

So cadmium may not store actual oxygen - it may be the state of the body having sufficient breath. More like a direct edit of the body's state than a tank of compressed air.

[Shadeshadow227]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

I actually don't think it works this way. If cadmium stores oxygen in a breathable form, that's O2, not the oxygen atom in CO - for the same reason that you can't Steelpush on metal oxide rocks like limestone/marble.

Also, cadmium and bendalloy are "Hybrid" metals, not pure Physical... just like Gold, which stores more of a Spiritual health (correspondence between the Physical state of the body and the Spiritual ideal) than just "rate of healing wounds" or "immune system strength".

So cadmium may not store actual oxygen - it may be the state of the body having sufficient breath. More like a direct edit of the body's state than a tank of compressed air.

IIRC it can also be used for an effect similar to blood-doping, delivering a large amount of oxygen into the body to enhance your stamina. It seems like it doesn't store air, just the stuff people can breathe safely (oxygen), with the expected effects a large amount of oxygen would have when tapped. If it just stored what you're breathing in regardless, you could tap it and get smoke or other particulates in your bloodstream, which sounds horrific.

[alder24]

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I actually don't think it works this way. If cadmium stores oxygen in a breathable form, that's O2, not the oxygen atom in CO - for the same reason that you can't Steelpush on metal oxide rocks like limestone/marble.

I was lazy and I didn't want to write the long word "oxygen" so I wrote O instead, but meaning O2. Yes, in breathable form. Molecules in the atmosphere, no separation of oxygen from carbon dioxide or monoxide, those two are other molecules that I think could be stored separately with Intent. No atoms storing, molecules storing only. 

2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

So cadmium may not store actual oxygen - it may be the state of the body having sufficient breath. More like a direct edit of the body's state than a tank of compressed air.

That can be true, but it would limit the potential of Cadmium in my opinion. This is more similar to gold healing. But is that only "state of body heaving breath"? From Coppermind: 

Quote

Cadmium is used to store breath. While storing breath, the Gasper must hyperventilate to keep their body oxygenated. Tapping a cadmiummind allows the user to go without breathing, or to introduce extra oxygen into their bloodstream

The description suggests that oxygen is directly provided into the bloodstream. If the effect of cadmium is happening not in lungs but in blood, this changes how it works a bit. Oxygen is stored and oxygen is transported by red blood cells, like CO and CO2 - so my idea still might work, and either whatever molecules get to your bloodstream can be stored separately, or just those that are transported by your red blood cells (hydrogen and nitrogen might be included in that, by google).

[cometaryorbit]

Oh, I definitely agree that cadmium Feruchemy oxygenates the bloodstream. I just think the mechanism might be more like "restoring the body to an oxygenated state" than "storing individual O2 molecules into the Spiritual Realm then tapping them out". It might oxygenate the hemoglobin directly, for that matter...

[HSuperLee]

39 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Oh, I definitely agree that cadmium Feruchemy oxygenates the bloodstream. I just think the mechanism might be more like "restoring the body to an oxygenated state" than "storing individual O2 molecules into the Spiritual Realm then tapping them out". It might oxygenate the hemoglobin directly, for that matter...

If this was the case, it would have some weird effects. The human respiratory system is CO2 driven, not O2 driven. If your body isn't accumulating CO2, then your autonomic system (the reason you don't have to think about breathing most of the time) isn't going to see a reason to inhale or exhale. Now, this might not be an issue so long as you're tapping. If anything, it might save your life, because you wouldn't reflexively breath in a hazardous environment, and you wouldn't feel like you were holding your breath. But as soon as the you stop tapping, you'd need to intentionally take a breath to restart their normal breathing process. This is all assuming that if your blood is being magically oxygenated, it will be magically de-carbonated so that you aren't just spontaneously generating CO2 out of Investiture.

[cometaryorbit]

I actually think that if it does work the way I'm suggesting, it would just delete the CO2, yeah - but not all of it, just as much as your body would remove from that amount of normal breathing.