Malwish Medallions and Fabrials

[Elder]

BLUF: I propose that Malwish Medallions and Metalborn Tech is based on living investiture, like fabrials and invested objects.

In another thread, I saw this WOB posted.

Spoiler

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

This got me thinking....... in Rhythm of War, we learned that Soulcasters are actually spren (and technically, all fabrials are different ways of putting spren to work).  Metal Jewelry that grants people powers.........

What if the Malwish Medallions are just another form invested life.  Either invested objects that have gained, if not sentience, enough life and identity to give their users power, or metal (being a form of investiture) that has gained enough investiture and sentience to actually have life and identity.

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

8 hours ago, Elder said:

BLUF: I propose that Malwish Medallions and Metalborn Tech is based on living investiture, like fabrials and invested objects.

In another thread, I saw this WOB posted.

  Hide contents

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

What if the Malwish Medallions are just another form invested life.  Either invested objects that have gained, if not sentience, enough life and identity to give their users power, or metal (being a form of investiture) that has gained enough investiture and sentience to actually have life and identity.

Non-God Metals aren't Invested, so I'd err on the side of the first one

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Elder said:

BLUF: I propose that Malwish Medallions and Metalborn Tech is based on living investiture, like fabrials and invested objects.

In another thread, I saw this WOB posted.

  Reveal hidden contents

Raddatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

This got me thinking....... in Rhythm of War, we learned that Soulcasters are actually spren (and technically, all fabrials are different ways of putting spren to work).  Metal Jewelry that grants people powers.........

What if the Malwish Medallions are just another form invested life.  Either invested objects that have gained, if not sentience, enough life and identity to give their users power, or metal (being a form of investiture) that has gained enough investiture and sentience to actually have life and identity.

They for sure were created in a way that gives them identity and some limited self-awareness. But like the WoB said - it's mechanical, not a life but a step towards it. And that's why they can give powers (specifically F-nicrosil) to anyone who doesn't have them at all.

Edited April 29, 2023 by alder24

[Elder]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

They for sure were created in a way that gives them identity and some limited self-awareness. But like the WoB said - it's mechanical, not a life but a step towards it. And that's why they can give powers (specifically F-nicrosil) to anyone who doesn't have them at all.

So closer to an awakened object than a fabrial.

Which makes sense really.  
1. The Scadrian Sub-Astral isn’t populated by cognitive entities, unlike Roshar.  Therefore there’s no one really to press into service like that.

2.Feruchemy is fairly similar to awakening in that a human invests an object.  There are mechanical differences.

[cometaryorbit]

I think this should be more in Cosmere Discussion?

(Warbreaker/Stormlight)

Spoiler

 

Yeah, I think it's probably closer to Awakening than to Rosharan fabrials that use a pre-existing spren (either trapped in a gem artifabrian-style or manifested directly Soulcaster-style).

Still, Awakened objects ... except Nightblood giving strength... don't grant power to an user. In that way they are more like Soulcasters ... or Honorblades.

I think Honorblades might actually be the closest analogy that we've seen, but since they were made directly by a Shard it's not much help.

Nicrosil Feruchemy does indeed seem kind of analogous to Awakening in the sense that a person is transferring part of their Innate Investiture - the "power" related part, not their basic spark of life -  to an object... though not in its effects.

Although Hemalurgy (all metals, not just Nicrosil) seems to be analogous in the same way... especially with the nonlethal Hemalurgy introduced in TLM.

I think medallions are more alive in maybe, two ways:

first, in the sense that their Investiture is separated from the original creator. All Investiture seeks life or intelligence or self-awareness, at least if it's not already held by a living/intelligent being. Medallions are no longer keyed to the original Feruchemist's Identity, but more than that, they're unsealed so the user doesn't have to be a Feruchemist at all.

But second, the medallion itself seems to be able to supply some level of Intent. Not 100% - the person still needs to know what it is and use it - but it can function when the person is asleep, and Marasi feels the medallion "wanting" weight. It's like ... it has part of the Intent, not enough to initiate the use of Feruchemy, but enough to sustain the process once the user falls asleep.

Edited May 3, 2023 by cometaryorbit

[Underwater_Worldhopper]

 

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

first, in the sense that their Investiture is separated from the original creator. All Investiture seeks life or intelligence or self-awareness, at least if it's not already held by a living/intelligent being. Medallions are no longer keyed to the original Feruchemist's Identity, but more than that, they're unsealed so the user doesn't have to be a Feruchemist at all.

It can't be that one unless it was somehow made with an Intent to give it that sort of limited sentience, because for Investiture to take on a mind of its own, it has to happen over an extremely long period of time, and preferably with a LOT of Investiture, otherwise it would take even longer.

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

But second, the medallion itself seems to be able to supply some level of Intent. Not 100% - the person still needs to know what it is and use it - but it can function when the person is asleep, and Marasi feels the medallion "wanting" weight. It's like ... it has part of the Intent, not enough to initiate the use of Feruchemy, but enough to sustain the process once the user falls asleep.

That one seems much more likely, at least to me

[Elder]

One possible extension of this idea:  the Malwish definitely personify their ships.  Brunstell and Wilg run on Ettmetal technology, which means they’re partially made out of invested materials.  The ships might have some extra Identity as well

Granted, I may be reading too much into it.  There are always stories of sailors personifying their ships, typically as women.  But maybe it’s just that I’m listening to it on audiobook, but Allik seems to talk about Wilg in particular as if he and that flying dinghy were a team.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Elder