2014-06-12 - Endurant Archivist - War of Trees

[manaheim]

I know this sort of breaks convention, but I reviewed this thing and there's no thread so, durnit, I'm gonna make a thread.

 

Not sure the forum name of this person so I just put the title.

 

Note: I edited the thread title to include the username. - Silk

 

 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Silk

[manaheim]

And my feedback...

 

I'm definitely intrigued, but I think you're making a number of common mistakes in the narrative that are distracting me from fully getting into the piece.

 

I tried to hit on the top items I think you could focus on.

 

You have a lot of repeated words. "Flames licked the gates, bodies across the fields. Flames consumed everything, raging higher." You can fix things like this with a little variation in sentence structure.

 

You should vary sentence length and structure. "His horse neighed in surprise. The young face was gaunt, brown eyes wide. Hair that had grown long unchecked was matted to his neck. He wiped his face with his hands. Several of the men that rode with him looked to him in concern."

 

There is an awful lot of people looking here, then there, then here again, then there. We don't need to see every movement, and remember we're always looking where the players are, so be sure where they're looking is really important. Also, you can call out details without explicitly saying that the person looked there. In the narrative, saying something means the POV character is focused on that.

 

You should try to simplify and cut wherever possible. It tightens the narrative and makes it easier to read. For example: "She looked up at him and managed a smile and wave from her little hand." There is no other way to wave than with the hand, so it's probably unnecessary. And we already know she is small.  Another example: "Perrin nodded mutely."  Cut the mutely. Unless he says something, he's being quiet.

 

Another simplification example: "“Lord Bale wrote that he would do what he could in his letter that arrived this morning."  You could cut all but "Lord Bale wrote that he would do what he could." The rest is probably you feeling like we need to know it was a letter from this morning... but write implies letter, and odds are it wasn't weeks ago, and even if it was, it's probably not important. Anything not important can, and should, be cut.

 

Watch for adverbs and try to show rather than tell. "haggardly watching it climb." How does someone haggardly watch something? What you're doing here is trying to tell us the state of the character without having to show us.  You could do something like "He rested his head in his hands and sighed. He paused, rubbed his sore legs, and stood to face the unwelcome newcomer he found in the sun."  (That's actually terrible, but you see the point... I'm giving you plenty of what he is feeling (and why!) and experiencing without using an awkward word like "haggardly".)

 

There's an awful lot of internal thought going on in here. It makes the character feel kind of whiny and inactive. In many cases, you can show us how he's thinking or feeling by his actions or dialogue. Try to trim out as much of the thought bubbles as you can.

 

"Then the towering specks of the Triplets, lone stone peaks". How can triplets be lone? (minor, but it caught my attention)

 

Hope this is helpful.

Edited June 13, 2014 by manaheim

[jParker]

I have to say, this was a bit of a roller coaster. For the longest time I was expecting a standard sword-and-sorcery fantasy and then "holster" popped up and I'm immediately interested. [The Dark Tower does a similar genre-blending and I absolutely love it.] Combined with an interesting rural setting and I'm firmly settled in.

 

That being said, there were a lot of parts that didn't really work for me. Perrin has a good foundation for a relatable character--somebody who is just trying to make the best of a bad situation, trying to live up to his father's legacy--but his attention never seems to be on that sort of thing. He doesn't seem to ruminate on anything, struggle to figure out his next step, take any sort of action whatever. Just thinks "everything sucks" and stares at the wall.

 

Similarly, there's a boatload of stuff thrown at the reader so early. I get that feudal conflict gets really complicated really quickly, but the way it's implemented seems like it hasn't been especially well-built, just as a way to say "Hey guys, lots of things are going on." At this point, I don't even know the characters that well, Jacob is the only one who's had anything remotely like a character-establishing shot. Why should I care about the world at large when I'm not really invested in the story? I'm like a toddler, you have to slowly spoon-feed it to me.

 

Additionally, living in a famously rural part of the world, Haywood probably wouldn't be enthusiastic about having the remnants of Gree marching into their town. They're outsiders who don't know their chull from a hole in the ground and they've probably got a whole army on their tail, which means Haywood will see the war (which it seems unlikely that they haven't already--breadbaskets are typically the second place to strike, after capitals).

 

All in all, there's solid potential here, it just needs a lot of world- and character-building.

[Mandamon]

I believe the author is Endurant Archivist.  Welcome to Reading Excuses!  In the future, you can start a topic when you send out the email (generally on Mondays)--you don't need to wait for confirmation.

 

pg 1: I would put Perrin's description a bit later on.  Get the reader invested in the here and now before you start giving lengthy character descriptions

 

Hmm... The name "Perrin" is pretty firmly taken.  Lord Perrin doubly so.  I would find another name, as I can only see a young blacksmith when reading this.

 

pg 2, end: "I wish I could rest. But General Pine will be at my heels, no forest fire will stop him for longer then a few days. Especially with the rain. And over fifteen hundred people to protect. Where can we go?!"

--this seems a little info-dumpy to me.  It's not too bad, but try to break it into tidbits here and there that come out naturally as the story progresses.

 

pg 7, top: Another italics infodump here.  You seem to do this a lot, so I would watch out for this as a crutch you lean on to explain things.

(There's a lot of this throughout.  As Manaheim says, it makes Perrin look whiny).

 

pg 10: "He doesn't know my father is dead. He doesn't even realize who I am."

--I would take this out.  The reader gets it from the context, which is a lot stronger than you trying to explain it.

 

pg 14: again, this is a long download of what happened before the story started.

 

 

Overall, the writing is good.  The main problem I had was that for this to be the start of a story, it's not that interesting.  Rather than any sort of excitement, you start with people fleeing a battle, then stopping at a town.  Not much happens more than just recounting what happened in the battle.  To be active, it's better to but events "in media res" or the middle of the action, rather than after they've finished, or before the next set of events have begun.

 

There's not a whole lot distinctive about the world yet, although it does have the addition of guns, which tells something about the time period.  It's just a lot of names of different peoples and towns thrown together.  Is there something strange and different going on?  Are the Axians human?  Is there magic?  Is there a kingdom (I assume so from the ranks)?

 

jParker makes another good point about the army marching into a rural town.  With your description of the flames, I was surprised that no one knew about Gree yet.  Armies travel slowly.  lone riders and messengers travel fast.  Especially if there is a horde of Axians (whatever they are) coming through, I would assume a message was sent on ahead.

 

I'm interested to see where this leads, but as the others said, there are some worldbuilding bits that need to be tightened up.

[Endurant Archivist]

OK, I'm appreciating the feedback. I'll respond more specifically when I can either tonight or tomorrow, just wanted you guys to know I'm listening and notes are being taken. Thanks!

@manaheim thanks for making this thread. My bad for not getting it up first, I'll get it up earlier next time.

[Endurant Archivist]

Alright! I'm starting my vacation, so for the next two weeks, I'll be mostly reading things, though I'll try to be writing a bit of my book. Again, thanks for taking the time to read through this and give feedback. I know it takes time, it's appreciated. 

 

Not much to say, I've taken the feedback, but I'll answer some specifics.

 

@manahiem There are a lot of repetitive words, which isn't making as much sense as I'd wanted. Some of this will be removed in the rewrite. Also, I hadn't noticed everyone "looking". Good point about just describing what they see. As for Perrin being whiny, I want him to be, so he can grow. Would it help if I added more to Jacob's control of the situation, moving them forward? 

 

@jParker I'm glad you got pulled in by the pistols and rifles. It's an interesting angle, though you'll have to RAFO to get more info as to why they exist. I've been reworking the world building, making it stronger, while clarifying bits. I'll be rewriting soon.

 

@Mandamon Where would you put the description of Perrin? As for the name, I'm guessing you're talking about the "Wheel of Time" series, Perrin the blacksmith. It's worth considering a name change, but Perrin is Perrin because that's his name. It'd be hard for me to switch it just because another series uses it. I'll think about it. I can understand what you mean about the interest. For me, it was interesting because I was asking so many questions. What are they running from? Who beat them? The idea of starting after they fail. Would a brief prologue in the middle of the previous battle help, then move to the "building" material in the beginning?

 

Hope to hear from you guys soon! Thanks again!

[Robinski]

I enjoyed this first section well enough, but there are issues that I had problems with.

 

I liked the dynamic of refugees fleeing from war, I’m less widely read in contemporary fantasy than many on here I suspect, but to me it’s a less commonly used situation.

 

I found the dialogue in need of polishing. There’s some maid-and-butler stuff and I think it would benefit from at least one more pass. Reading it out loud will give you a sense of how convincing/realistic (or not) it is – and there are other ways to deal with exposition.

 

I like Perrin’s moments of reminiscence, and his nightmarish memories of what has happened. They add tension to the situation and add to his character.

 

I don’t find the military situation convincing. If there are thousands of Axians rampaging across the country, and people in Haywood know about it, why is the whole country not at war? The earls should all be standing together, as surely it must be obvious that the Axians don’t plan to stop with Gree – there’s nothing to suggest they would. I don't think there is nearly enough panic in Haywood.

 

I'm interested to know more about the setting and the world. I thought there might have been more on that. Where do the Axians come from, across a border or across the sea? Is there a monarch who sits over the earls?

 

I think there are various aspects that need tightening up for consistency. I don’t think the presence of firearms was dealt with as it changes the dynamic from the first impression that most readers would form

 

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Looking at the posts now, I would agree with a lot of the other comments - apologies where I'm duplicating. Mandamon mentions Perrin too (see my comment below). I take your point in response, but you have to consider what your end game is. No publisher is going to put out a book with Perrin as the protagonist, you might as well call him Frodo ;o) I'm slowly learning myself that a (proper) writer can’t afford to be precious about things like names – or anything else for that matter – kill your darlings!

 

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(detailed comments)

 

Page 1 – I can’t see you getting away with calling your protagonist ‘Perrin’ – most people will struggle not to see a big blacksmith with a large hammer and golden eyes.

 

Page 2 - “We should stop soon, Lord Perrin. It’ll be dark soon. We’re all

tired.” – Repetition of ‘soon’.

 

He raised his hand and waved Jaora, riding on his right with one of the few horses left. She sided closer to him. “Jaora, tell the people to set up camp tonight. - Repetition of ‘Jaora’, he doesn’t need to use her name as they know each other (presumably).

 

Page 3 – Jacob’s smile was genuine. – Why wouldn’t it be? I think the tag’s unnecessary. Also, repetition of the word ‘road’.

 

Page 4 – Maid-and-butler dialogue. Jacob wouldn’t say ‘letter that arrived this morning’ to Perrin, who knows that already. Again, does Jacob not know where the Eastern Road is? Sounds like Perrin only says that to tell the reader.

 

Page 5 – I don’t like ‘haggardly’. I think you’re a bit heavy on the adjectives in places. Also, four uses of ‘Perrin’ in the one paragraph doesn’t read well.

 

I found ‘simple tunic and trousers’ jarring. The first thing you mention when Perrin finds Jacob is what he’s wearing. I think his location is the more relevant thing, then what he’s doing. What he’s wearing seem irrelevant to the situation.

 

Page 6 – A general would not tell and scout that he’s going to talk to the earl. Also, I found the name ‘Lonely Haybale’ rather comical, also calling it Inn and Tavern is clumsy, why not just ‘Inn’?

 

More difficult though is the dialogue. It’s very maid-and-butler. You don’t need to tell the reader that it’s strange for an earl to meet another in an inn, and you certainly don’t need to compound that by having Perrin think it strange, and then Jacob agreeing with him! It’s like saying the same thing 4 times. I’m presuming that Bale doesn’t live in Haywood, or he would meet the other earls in his grand house. If that’s the case, then why is it unusual to meet at an in?

 

Page 7 – I'm not sure about losing being the story of Perrin’s life if he’s an earl from a privileged family.

 

Page 8 – I'm not sure how big Bale is, but Haywood sounds too small to support the amount of land needed to feed an earldom. The picture I'm taking from the description is that Haywood is just a crossroads. I accept that the majority of the population would be on the farms that surround the ‘town’ (it sounds more like a village to me), but I would expect there to be a lot of services in the town.

 

I find the use of kilometres a bit odd. I associate SI units with technology, science, the modern world, etc., so it feels out of place here.

 

Page 9 – Ah, that’s thrown me completely. I had a sense of the setting as ‘pre-technology’, but now there are pistols. It leads back to my problem with Haywood and how small it is if this level of technology exists. This said, there’s no mention of what type of pistol it is. Are we talking flintlock? Colt 45? Glock?

 

Page 10 – Perrin is talking about wintering here, but they are going to the Triplets are they not? And aren’t the Axians relatively close behind them? My impression is that if they stay in Haywood the Axians will be on top of them in days. I find Perrin’s thought process confusing – maybe it’s me, but I think there’s a lack of consistency or clarity in the movement of the various forces and the timeline.

 

Page 12 – I did not get any sense that Jacob was with Perrin, then he is mentioned as a casual aside, but not given any role in the conversation until his speech, when Perrin has discussed everything with him up to now. I find it hard to believe that the earl and the general would go with a small group and leave bulk of their people under someone else’s command, not good tactics, like Star Trek, all the senior officers going on the landing party? Tactical madness!

[manaheim]

As far as the lead being reminiscent or whatever... I completely understand where you're going with that. The best advice I was ever given was you need to make your character obviously talented and obviously active in SOME way.  Something as simple as him aggressively washing dishes and doing an astonishingly good job about it while showing pride in his work... sounds odd, but believe it or not, even that little bit gives us something.

 

The other advice I've been given consistently is to avoid "navel gazing", which is just a lot of thinking about stuff. I completely understand the attraction and why folks do it, but I really would try to minimize it. Find other ways to give us that information through dialogue and plot, and ask yourself- for each thing you're telling us- do we REALLY need to know that? Do we really need to know it now? Can we find out later?

 

Don't feel like the reader has to know everything in order to follow along. They don't. They just need to know the absolutely key bits.