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Twinborn Combos


Deus Ex Biotica

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Yeah, it seems to be 8 spikes for the Base Metals (which means they have doubled skill with one of them, most commonly Bronze), an extra spike of Steel (so they can detect metals well enough to "see"), a spike giving them Gold Feruchemy, and one additional spike, which is sometimes (and maybe always) either Atium or Electrum burning, to let them stand against Mistborn with Atium. 11 spikes total.

I seem to recall the Inquisitor Kelsier fought showing bursts of speed, and will re-read the fight to see if I am getting it mixed up with the ones from Hero Of Ages.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

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Yeah, it seems to be 8 spikes for the Base Metals (which means they have doubled skill with one of them, most commonly Bronze), an extra spike of Steel (so they can detect metals well enough to "see"), a spike giving them Gold Feruchemy, and one additional spike, which is sometimes (and maybe always) either Atium or Electrum burning, to let them stand against Mistborn with Atium. 11 spikes total.

I was under the impression that "seeing" with iron and steel and their extra power came from being savants. I can't find the quote but I'm pretty sure that Marsh said that he had been blind when he became an Inquisitor and after flaring those metals for a while he began to see more easily. I'm sure that savant level powers would be enough to overcome any regular Mistborn, even accounting with Hemalurgic decay.

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There's also this part of the exchange:

17th Shard: So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

Brandon: It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

The linchpin spike might not need to be or do anything in particular beyond "hemalurgic spike". Perhaps one of the Blessing spikes would work just as well as Feruchemical Healing or Allomantic Electrum. Not enough information to say for certain.

Edited by Eric
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17th Shard: So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

Brandon: It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

This is interesting. If not all Inquisitors have the same spikes built into them then it makes me wonder, Where is the dividing line between humans and Inquisitors? I know they aren't human anymore but they can still have children with humans. (would those kids have Allomancy even though their parent got it through Hemalurgy?) I mean are there a certain number or type of spikes that makes an Inquisitor not a human anymore? Or is any human that is spiked with an Allomanic or Feruchemic attribute considered an Inquisitor? If that's true this would mean Vin is technically an Inquisitor!

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I think at the point where you need a linchpin spike to survive, you're past the limit of "human". Quellion, Penrod, Spook and Vin were certainly still human with single spikes. TLR had a couple and was human enough. Marsh, Bendal and Kar, on the other hand... Not nearly so much. Of course, the Koloss got four total and they weren't human, but they also didn't need a linchpin spike, so even if my above speculation is accurate, it isn't complete. Without knowing the full effects of all the bind points, I'm not sure we can know.

Edited by Eric
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I'm pretty sure you are also correct, Wispsy. Excepting Kwaan, I think all of them were turned into Mistwraiths, and the First Generation were given their spikes out of friendship. The rest have continued to breed true as Mistwraiths, occasionally being awakened via the Blessings. So both explanations were correct, just incomplete.

Edited by Eric
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Heyyyy getting this thread back on topic:

In addition to the amazing implications storing Investiture could have for the Cosmere, any Nicrosil ferring that's also a misting would *probably* behave similarly to duralumin or Compounding. E.g. Steelpusher/Soulbearer could store their ability to Push into a nicrosil metalmind, and then later recall it to augment a shot for that One Shot That Counts (Think anti-aircraft). My logic is the Elend-as-Mistborn principle: some people just have much stronger force to their pushes. Nicrosil storage would provide this in spades.

Another interesting take on the duralumin ninjas: paired with bendalloy, you could be quite the battlefield trickster. Perhaps you could make a scene (typically, killing people does the trick). When people draw a bead on you, you put up a bubble and move a few feet to the side. Then you start filling your metalmind as much as possible as you drop your field. Potentially, everyone sees that you disappeared and - rather than register that you're a few feet to the left - just completely forgets about you 'til you strike again...

That's pretty Ninja IMO.

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I am still not totally sold on the idea that that "Investure" means that, but if it does, that could be really cool. And, if you burn something like Bendalloy, you could have a HUGE reserve in your Metalminds, since you could be filling it at nearly %100, all the time*.

Here's a not-quite-Twinborn idea I've been toying with lately: Koloss-Blooded, like real Koloss, grow constantly. To me, that indicates their body's ability to regenerate is totally out of control. So, if one were a Bloodmaker, they could curb those eventually-inconvenient growth spurts, while getting a sizeable charge of Health. If you really want a proper Twinborn, stir in Pewter (even more Health and strength), Tin (I think that a shockingly astute and stealthy Koloss-Blooded would catch people off guard quite nicely, don't you?), or Iron (I really like the idea of near-invulnerable Lurcher - shots aimed at them will hit their armor plate harmlessly, shots aimed at their team will hit their skin, and they'll heal).

-- Deus Ex Biotica

* The management is not responsible for any side effects experienced by having virtually no connection to Preservation/Harmony for extended durations. If you begin to have delusions of dead friends, relatives, or enemies, please consult a Terris Sage immediately.

Edited by Deus Ex Biotica
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-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Everything I have posted in this thread, I had written down from the start, and everything others mention I have been adding as we go. I honestly hope I never go insane enough to start trying to name all 255 non-Crasher combinations.

Call me insane but I have been working on it for a while. A lot of names are still hard to find since sometimes the powers don't benefit each other at all but I am going to post all the names I thought so far a little at the time starting with all IRON Misting combinations.

IRON+IRON

*CRAWLER, this name don't take count of eventual compounding but of the lightness of the subject added to the ability to pull metals. this kind of twin born could easily crawl metal building, a a spiderman

*ANCHOR,this name instead take count of compounding, an Iron twin born could become so heavy to be able to stop an escaping train, car or boat which normally would be too heavy. as long as they have metallic parts.

IRON+STEEL

*SLINGER, FLINGER Immagine the twin born been able to pull to an object towards himself then run as fast as possible in the opposite direction towards an opponent, then change direction while stopping the pull. The object will keep flying towards the enemy by inertia.

IRON+TIN

* No good idea yet, the powers are bough to combine. any help appreciated

IRON+PEWTER

*SMASHER, STOPPER, ANVIL All 3 are based on the idea of pulling towards you someone lighter then you whirring metal, and when they are close, smash them

IRON+ZINC

*IRONSPARK, LURCHMASTER A twinborn with a faster mental speed would be able to react faster when choosing what to pull towards himself, I like Lurchmaster better.

IRON+BRASS CRAZY IDEA :P

*SMELTER Since we don't know how much warmth a metal mind can store it's tough to see the applications. I had the idea that this kind of twin born could raise their temperatures so high that a small metal object pulled towards them would actually melt.

IRON+COPPER

*IRONMINDER, METALLURGIST Another tough one let me know what you think

IRON+BRONZE

*No idea ???

IRON+CADMIUM

*RECOVERER, DEEPLURCHER, SALVAGER Easily enough all based on pilling metals under water

IRON+BENDALLOY

*No idea

IRON+GOLD NEW

*ABSORBER : pull iron small object (coin, bullet, nail) towards itself, take the wound, heal and then burn the iron from it B) soo cool

IRON+ELECTRUM

*DEFENDER, PROTECTOR Both of these are based on the basic Lurcher ability to pull towards himself enemy bullets with the addition of a good dose of determination not to fail. Shield or armor needed

IRON+CHROMIUM

*SCATTERER, RICOCHET The main idea on these names is that when a metallic object hit your shield while you are tapping luck It will actually ricochet and hit an enemy instead or place itself perfectly for your next move

IRON+NICROSIL

*IRONHOARDER Store that power for a later use

IRON+ALLUMINIUM

*no idea

IRON+DURALLUMIN

*No idea

ciao

Edited by None70
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Wait, what? Did I miss a memo about Bronze being able to detect even Ferruchemy? Those Inquisitors got pretty blindsided by Sazed...

Lately, I've been more and more amused by the idea of a Coinshot who doubles as a Cadmium Ferring backing up a group of bandits. They could hide in a canal for hours with a bunch of shell casings (or any scrap metal) close to an amush spot, and if there was trouble, start shooting back from under the canal (I think this would work despite the pressure change as the shots exited the water, since, unlike bullets, Coinshot attacks have a constant force acting on them), and the enemy would not know where to shoot back.

Wait a minute... I know how Wax could shoot out of Wayne's Bendalloy bubbles. Once a bullet gets distorted, it probably has too much force to be kept on track precisely by Steelpushing. But if Wax through a bunch of coins (or, knowing him, shell casings) at people, let them get distorted, then re-positioned himself within the bubble to line up a new shot and Pushed again, that should work. Nasty.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

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IRON+BRASS

*SMELTER Since we don't know how much warmth a metal mind can store it's tough to see the applications. I had the idea that this kind of twin born could raise their temperatures so high that a small metal object pulled towards them would actually melt.

While I don't think that there is a hard physical limit to the amount of Heat that a person can tap, I don't think that Feruchemy gives you and protection from being at high temperatures. If you were hot enough to affect metal, you would still be cooked.

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TWIN BORN names for STEEL allomancers

STEEL+IRON

*“CRASHER” Only name known from the AoL book

STEEL+STEEL

*SPEEDSTER,SPRINTER both names counting on the compounding of the metal making the user super fast

* FAST-SHOT, This name sort of blend the two abilities since physical speed is not just about running

STEEL+TIN

*BULLSEYE no comment ;):rolleyes:

STEEL+PEWTER

*SLAMMER, I immagine this twinborn pushing himself against something on his back and use the extra push to slam on the enemy while burning pewter

STEEL+ZINC

*no idea

STEEL+BRASS CRAZY IDEA :blink:

*HOTSHOT, COINBURNER, Again I don't know if this is possible but The user could overheat a coin before throwing it causing burns

STEEL+COPPER

*LOCATOR A copper mind could be used to store the location of all metals available in certain areas of the city , This could then be tapped when heading in that specific area to know exactly where all available metals are giving an advantage

STEEL+BRONZE

*NIGHTSHOOTER,

STEEL+CADMIUM

*DEEPSHOT, STEELDIVER How about a sniper shooting from underwater , crazyyyyy :mellow:

STEEL+BENDALLOY

*no idea

STEEL+GOLD

*no idea

STEEL+ELECTRUM

*No idea

STEEL+CHROMIUM

*BLINDSHOT, COINFLIP While tapping luck even random shots have the chance to hit something in your favor

STEEL+NICROSIL

*STEELKEEPER Supposedly able to store the power and use it when needed

STEEL+ALLUMINIUM

*no idea

STEEL+DURALLUMIN

*no idea

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I thought of a couple more ideas that I, at least, found pretty interesting.

I was thinking about Gold ferrings and physical savants (pewter, tin). Could you even actually become a savant in this case? Imagine Spook tapping gold. Either the damage done to his body by burning too much tin is healed, and he returns to being a regular tineye or his healing allows him to carry on, largely unaffected by the drawbacks of being a savant. His body stretches and changes to accommodate the constant tin burning, but his gold lets his body exist comfortably in this state.

If the first, then tin/gold is a pretty meh combo, other than the fact that you get to be a pretty reckless scout. If the latter, you're totally awesome and you recover from bright flashes and loud noises much faster.

Obviously, pewter/gold is going to make a very powerful tough-guy no matter what. But if gold doesn't instantly remove savant-status, then the combo could be even better. Especially since your constant pewter burning would help you store health faster when needed.

My personal belief is that the 2nd interpretation could be correct, but you would need to be actively burning tin/pewter while tapping your metalmind to prevent your body from "fixing" itself.

This last bit is better suited to my metal arts and guns thread, but I don't feel like reviving it out of page 3 so apologies: a copper burner and a cadmium burner could make a pretty interesting Sniper team. By guerrilla-crawling deep into enemy territory days before "the general" arrives, they could put up a coppercloud inside a cadmium bubble to reduce human needs during the several-day wait.

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The Pewter/Gold combo has come up several times, though I just started wondering what it would mean for Savants yesterday night.

Personally, I don't think it would stop you from becoming one - whatever it does to keep your body whole when you're tapping, it does just as much to make you get messed up faster when you're filling (and does physical health even relate to Savant-ness? If it did, would Pewter Savants ever exist?), but I do think that, by tapping your Goldmind, you could spend some time without the pain of being a Tin savant or the numbness of being a Pewter one, asyour body briefly returns to normal functioning.

Working on NPCs for an Alloy of Law-era setting last night, I thought of a really neat pairing for a shotgun messenger: Allomantic Tin, Feruchemical Steel. So, he'd spend most of his day in the seat of a wagon, barely moving (and filling his Steelminds), but burning Tin so that he'd know well in advance if there was trouble. Then, whenever he did have to act quickly, he'd immediately begin tapping Speed to deal with quickly and efficiently.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

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Well then, as my first post into this community I pray that I am constructive.

All of the ideas below this are to address the combinations that were brought up by None70 for his iron posting:

Here are some quick thoughts that I had on the subject of Tin Ferrings. The five senses that we have are Sight, Smell, Taste, Hearing, and Touch. However, where does our sense of balance stem from? It is hearing, because our sense of balance comes from our ears, or is it touch? Either way, if a sense of balance could be stored through Ferumancy that would be a good potential ability to combine with Lurchers or at least while they are flying through the air they may be able to change posture to change their center mass potentially; kinda like how when a gymnast does a flip they manipulate their center mass to change the arc of their jump except how I visualize it for a lurcher is that by changing center mass they are able to create slight angles to their pulls. Whether or not this is feasible I have no clue, but it is an idle thought that occurred to me.

Something that occurred to me about Zinc Ferrings. Does the increased thinking and reasoning allow for increased processing of information? Perhaps I should word this better, would tapping into a zinc metalmind allow for the Sparker ferring to think about multiple thoughts at the same time? If so then the user could think about how to pull on all the different pieces of metal around themselves to spin through pulls and for non-linear movement. I envision that this mind processing might become something like how Kvothe from The Name of the Wind partitions his mind to better handle what goes on around him.

Onto the subject of Bronze Ferrings. Storing Wakefulness is indeed an odd ferumancy ability to combine with a fairly combat oriented ability such as that of a Lurcher (although a Lurcher does have non-combat utility as shown through Ranette). For combat, being able to enhance alertness would be good as it ties your ability to notice details (not in the sense of how a tineye notices details, but rather how actions catch your attention) this could potentially allow the lurcher to engage multiple opponents being more aware of the actions but still with the limitation of the mind only being able to process so many actions at once, at which point that person would be fighting on a more instinctual level responding off of reflex rather than conscious action (at least that is the way that I interpret it). Either way the Lurcher/Sentry setup would be good for a craftsman potentially, where they can work for extended periods of time continuously on one project allowing for continuity. The downside would be the amount of time that they need to store wakefulness.

For Copper Ferrings or Archivist Ferrings. This is an interesting idea the more that I think about it. For combat potential there is quite a few uses to the storing memories and having no recall of them while they are stored. Storing the memories preceding a fight is useful in that suddenly your mind is freed from thinking about previous thoughts and allows your mind to focus entirely on the fight. It also makes me curious if you can store the memories leading up to mental fatigue to lessen said fatigue (the fatigue would still be there but not in the forefront), which would accomplish a diminutive skill as a Bronze ferring or Sentry Ferring. Also, you can pull your memories of past fights and have all your actions from past fights brought to the forefront of your mind, allowing you to fight at top form as you perfectly recall how you manage to accomplish fantastic feats of combat.

For Cadmium Ferrings or Gasper Ferrings. Much how a sniper needs to control their breathing when they make their shot a Gasper Ferring could potentially increase their focus by tapping their metalmind as it takes part of our focus to breathe. Also by highly oxygenating their blood they allow their cells to undergo through anaerobic processes allowing for fast-twitch muscle reactions to be utilized with greater potential (they can sprint for a longer period of time) as well as supplying their slow-twitch muscles with a constant oxygen source (they have ridiculous endurance). This is much like a lesser version of a Steel Ferring (as they are not increasing their speed, but rather their bodies ability to go at faster speeds). And more on highly oxygenated blood, it allows increased cell activity meaning that they are able to think faster and react faster.

For Bendalloy Ferrings, well they are weird. Ars Arcanum says: "Subsumer Ferrings can store nutrition and calories in a bendalloy metalmind; they can eat large amounts of food during active storage without feeling full or gaining weight, and then can go without the need to eat while tapping the metalmind. A separate bendalloy metalmind can be used to similarly regulate fluids intake." This ability is useful in terms of survival and health. By having a large store of energy (through vitamins and nutrition and fluids) and constantly feeding that to your body, your body becomes used to that constant flow. This idea of constant flow is similar to the idea of having an IV bananna bag hooked up to your body, your body only gets what it needs without flooding it creating fluctuations in blood sugar and the like. Another thought that just occurred to me is whether or not the Subsumer Ferrings can store stimulants (like amphetamines), and by tapping into the stimulants at a lower rate, they allow themselves to go into a stimulated state at will with mitigated side effects.

For Electrum Ferrings and their storage of determination, I would consider it a soft counter to a Rioter or Soother, as they would have to be able to detect that there is something that they need to be determined to do against something. In terms of what determination does to our bodies it is mainly hormonal manipulation and heightened brain activity in a centralized region of the brain (least that is my understanding from the little psychology that I have taken). So when you store determination I feel that your mind goes into a depressed state as Brandon says and then later on flooding the brain with hormones and activity to create that determination, which I would say is similar to the Bronze and Zinc Ferrings storing Wakefulness and Mental Speed. The differences between the three are slight but major, and all three seem to accomplish the same thing through different means as I see it. Electrum functions through hormones and intent, Bronze through different hormones and our ability to recognize our surroundings, and Zinc through synapse speed.

For Chromium Ferrings or Spinner Ferrings the way that I envision the mechanics behind it is that they are storing their ability to manipulate the quantum mechanics of their environment. Like when you roll a dice 1000 times with the intent to roll a certain number, that number appears more often than the others, this occurs because of how we perveive our surroundings (it has a lot to do with the physics that go on around us and how an objects state changes when it is observed, like the nature of light). Either way, in combat I envision a Lurcher constantly filling his metalmind rather than tapping into it. If the Lurcher is used to having to respond to the unfortunate events that occur to him then by dragging that 'area of unluckyness' towards their target you force the enemy to have to function with increased chance of disaster as well potentially. Of course if the mechanics of filling the metalmind allows for the environment to be more easily manipulated by other people (making them more lucky) then there would be problems with constantly filling the metalmind during combat.

We need more information about Nicrosil Ferrings, and what Brandon exactly means by Investiture, but seeing as the people of Teris don't know exactly what they are doing I have this bad feeling that we will never truly understand what occurs.

Aluminum Ferrings store Identity. So I imagine that while they are storing their Identity they become less aware of their spiritual selves and thus lower inhibitions? That's a weird thought to follow, as I'm not entirely sure what is meant by Identity. If it refers to a persons sense of self worth and purpose, then I'd guess that it would be similar to an Electrum Ferring...perhaps someone will respond and throw in an idea for how this would work exactly...

Hope that these musings of mine become helpful in coming up with combinations, and I know that I stop throwing in the implications of how these feruchemical powers might combine with a Lurcher. Also, none of this information that I'm throwing out there is confirmed in terms of their mechanics, they are how I rationalize Ferumancy.

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