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Twinborn Combos


Deus Ex Biotica

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After reading Alloy Of Law, I decided on the spot that it was a perfect setting for an RPG. After doing that, of course I started thinking about different combination of Twinborn abilities, and how they would play out.

Some people tell me that I'm a touch overzealous about considering possibilities. I had written down two dozen by the time I realized it was getting to be dawn, and I had things to do in addition to sleep.

The purpose of this thread is twofold - first, to discuss cool Twinborn combinations we think would be useful/interesting, and second, to ponder what you might get with some of the more off-beat pairings and Compoundings.

* Someone who burns Electrum while making Zincminds would have the mental speed other Allomancers lack, allowing them to actually consider the future shadows around them, seeing which ones are getting injured, which have done what they are trying to do, and so on, and select the path leading to the right shadow. This probably isn't quite as useful as Atium, but it could come close, and even near-Atium is a devastating power.

* The combination of being a Brass Misting with Duraluminminds would, frankly, make Breeze jealous. A little stored up Connection can make strangers regard you as a close friend instantly - combined with some subtle Soothing to speed things along, you'd have a manipulation monster capable of making hated enemies love and honor them in minutes... and not even Copperclouds would be immune, since the Feruchemical side still works. If they want to drop off the radar instead, they can just resume filling their Metalminds, and Sooth everyone's awareness of them. Depending on how strong their abilities are, this might even make Seekers have trouble tracking them down, since they would just pay no attention to that one person, no matter what Allomancy they detected.

* Using a Brassmind to store up heat would be really nice in real life, but doesn't really scream with larger implications. Still, if the heat can be brought back selectively to the specific parts of the body they were stored from (which does not seem impossible to me, since Copperminds store specific memories, not the general quality of being able to remember things), then a Thug with that power has a couple of nasty options. They might, for example, start burning Pewter, then stick their hand in a fire, and store the heat before it can hurt them badly. Later, in a fight (or while working as a blacksmith), they could burn Pewter again, and tap the Brassmind for their hand being in the middle of a fire, causing a burst of intense heat (they would only have to endure it for an instant, while protected by Pewter, since they could then switch to filling the Metalmind before any burn damage became too severe) around their hand, which might wreak havoc on a foe.

* Speaking of Copperminds, what might a Copper Compounder be capable of? I submit to you that, if you Burn a memory, rather than simply recalling it, it can extend not just to sensory input, but to actual motion. So, if you're expecting to, say, have to jump long distances, set up an obstacle course and start running it. Store your best jumps in a Coppermind, eat it, and when the time comes, start burning them. You'll end up with some odd gaps in your memory which can never be filled, but on the plus side, you'll be able to select a jump which you know for a fact will get the job done.

Do these sound possible to people? And what devious ideas do you all have?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

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* Speaking of Copperminds, what might a Copper Compounder be capable of? I submit to you that, if you Burn a memory, rather than simply recalling it, it can extend not just to sensory input, but to actual motion. So, if you're expecting to, say, have to jump long distances, set up an obstacle course and start running it. Store your best jumps in a Coppermind, eat it, and when the time comes, start burning them. You'll end up with some odd gaps in your memory which can never be filled, but on the plus side, you'll be able to select a jump which you know for a fact will get the job done.

I believe that TLR already did Copper compounding, which would explain his flawless memory. That's not to say that there aren't secondary effects as well.

Allomantic Pewter + Feruchemical Brass: wear heavy, restrictive armour (perhaps make of stone instead of metal?) in a hot climate, and don't overheat.

Allomantic Iron + Feruchemical Zinc: calculate orbits of incoming objects, and curve them around your body by pulling them with iron. Then launch them away from yourself. Could also be done with your body and a large anchor. (Zinc could also just be handwaved away, as Allomancy is "instinctual".)

Allomantic Cadmium + Feruchemical Steel: great for setting up a single enemy into an ambush. Rush up behind him with Feruchemical Steel, then start a Cadmuim bubble for a few (internal time) seconds. This would give your allies a minute or two to set up. Could also do something similar with Chromium/Steel.

Electrum Compounder: Would tapping excessive amounts of Determination cause Allomantic Electrum to show the one path that you decided/would decide on? If that is the case, it could show a single shadow of the optimum path, all you would need to do is follow it exactly.

Tin Compounder: Much more useful than doubling your sensory boost, you could selectively dampen them as well by storing the senses you don't want.

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Feruchemical Duralumin = instant ninja.

From the Ars Arcanum:

Connector Ferrings can store spiritual connection in a duralumin metalmind, reducing other people's awareness and friendship with them during active storage...

And since storage doesn't require standing reserves...

While the Ars Arcanum doesn't say it directly, I would think that the Connection goes both ways: affecting your own empathy along with that of others. If that is the case, you could also have: Feruchemical Duraluminum = instant ninja sociopath. Not the prettiest combo, if the Fering's lack of connection is enough to affect their actions.

Edited by Kurkistan
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And, if combined with Soothing as per my example, it's a sociopath Ninja who can Soothe away people's desire to run away after they murder the guy standing next to you. They might be able to cut up three or four people in a public place before anyone reacted, then walk away casually, and nobody would recall what they looked like (this combo is certainly one that screamed "major villain!" at me from the start.

Double Tin is also amazing, with a range from 10x Spook to less sensitive than a normal human, handled separately for each sense. The Guns thread talked about such a person being a sniper, and that's scary, but they'd also be incredible at general stealth, close combat (by feeling the air move), reading people like a living lie detector... and they could do all of it while not showing up to Seekers, since they could stop burning and just tap their Tinminds for full effectiveness. Scary stuff.

I believe that TLR already did Copper compounding, which would explain his flawless memory. That's not to say that there aren't secondary effects as well.

I assumed he was just using regular Coppermind, but he might have been Compounding, too.

Allomantic Pewter + Feruchemical Brass: wear heavy, restrictive armour (perhaps make of stone instead of metal?) in a hot climate, and don't overheat.

Wow. Burning Pewter while using Brassminds might be a slicker combination than I thought...

Allomantic Cadmium + Feruchemical Steel: great for setting up a single enemy into an ambush. Rush up behind him with Feruchemical Steel, then start a Cadmuim bubble for a few (internal time) seconds. This would give your allies a minute or two to set up. Could also do something similar with Chromium/Steel.

And, with Steel, you can keep moving super fast in the bubble, to avoid getting sniped by any spare enemies out there. That's very elegant - bravo!

* This one isn't elegant, but I suppose it might as well be mentioned: A Thug who is also a Bloodmaker has some huge advantages over a normal Gold Ferring. If they lie sick in bed to build up their reserves, but leave Pewter burning, they can add more health than normal, and all the rest of the time they're not in combat, they can keep on filling up their Goldminds at a low level (say, 10% of their health at all times) without suffering the way Wayne does, since they'll just burn Pewter and fill the Metalmind with the extra health they get from that. And, in battle, they don't have to heal wounds fully, just enough to keep on fighting, letting them take the time completely heal them more slowly (and thus, with less energy lost) afterwards. Ich Ben Ein Uberthug! (I suppose that a Thug who stores Speed or Strength gets similar benefits.)

* Speaking of storing Speed, am I the only one who thinks that a Steel Compounder would be even scarier than Miles? They would be really, absurdly fast, probably to the point of near-invisibility, and they'd have all the tricks a normal Coinshot does. Brrr.

* Back in the "would this even work" category, I wonder if Zinc Misting/Electrum Ferring could tap reserves of built-up "emotionality" to make their Rioting stronger. I know that neither Breeze nor Allrianne really imply that feeling powerful emotions enhance emotional Allomancy, but then again, neither of them have felt emotions ten times stronger than a normal human should be capable of. It's something of a stretch, but I really like the synergy it implies.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

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And, if combined with Soothing as per my example, it's a sociopath Ninja who can Soothe away people's desire to run away after they murder the guy standing next to you. They might be able to cut up three or four people in a public place before anyone reacted, then walk away casually, and nobody would recall what they looked like (this combo is certainly one that screamed "major villain!" at me from the start.

Although by the same logic, tapping your Connection should increase your empathy and make it harder for you to con or kill people.

I'm imagining a Feruchemical version of Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde here, only instead of him constantly reverting, the problem is that in order to be Dr. Jeckle, he has to turn into Mr. Hyde. (also, Hyde hated, whereas a connection storer would just be emotionless)

Also, storing connection should make it harder to use emotional Allomancy, because of your decreased understanding and perception of people's emotions.

* Speaking of storing Speed, am I the only one who thinks that a Steel Compounder would be even scarier than Miles? They would be really, absurdly fast, probably to the point of near-invisibility, and they'd have all the tricks a normal Coinshot does. Brrr.
This depends on how much the mind is speeded up to compensate for the speed. If it doesn't keep up enough, eventually a Compounder will exceed speeds where they can control their motions, and will probably run into a wall. Painfully.

Also, Brass Ferrings will be in high demand as engine minders. They could work in disgustingly hot rooms that nobody else could safely enter. They'd also be top choices for any sort of desert mining/excavation projects, or exploring the poles or going on mountain climbing expeditions.

Edited by Sir_Read-a-Lot
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I think just about any Compounder is going to be bloody scary.

Well, maybe not any Compounder. Things like Weight and Heat are not, in and of themselves, advantages in large quantities, and ones like Electrum might border on disadvantageous. I'm still trying to figure out what an Aluminum Compounder would even mean.

On the other hand, even something as mild-seeming as a Bronze Compounder would be amazingly cool: you are always perfectly alert without any sleep, and can detect any Allomancy around you. It doesn't exactly shout "Ninja Dinosaur," but it is not to be underestimated.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Also, I only just now realized that my Zinc/Electrum idea, if correct, would just be an absurdly circuitous lead-in for your username.

Edited by Deus Ex Biotica
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I'm imagining a Feruchemical version of Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde here, only instead of him constantly reverting, the problem is that in order to be Dr. Jeckle, he has to turn into Mr. Hyde. (also, Hyde hated, whereas a connection storer would just be emotionless)

Also, storing connection should make it harder to use emotional Allomancy, because of your decreased understanding and perception of people's emotions.

The Jekyll/Hyde thing was basically what I had in mind, too. "Hyde" wouldn't need a huge range of emotional Allomancy - his plans would mostly work if he just Soothed everything - that's still enough to make people docile and uncomprehending (in a fight, he might Soothe everything except Fear, instead).

This depends on how much the mind is speeded up to compensate for the speed. If it doesn't keep up enough, eventually a Compounder will exceed speeds where they can control their motions, and will probably run into a wall. Painfully.

Explicitly, mental speed is not altered at all by Steel - that needs a different Metalmind. So, yes, you'd have to be careful, but the potential is still frightening.

Also, Brass Ferrings will be in high demand as engine minders. They could work in disgustingly hot rooms that nobody else could safely enter. They'd also be top choices for any sort of desert mining/excavation projects, or exploring the poles or going on mountain climbing expeditions.

The more this thread goes on, the more convinced I am I would have to make a Pewterburner with Brassminds if I played in an Alloy Of Law-era RPG. That, or a Nicrburster with Steelminds, for maximum mess up the enemy/bolter your allies flexibility.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

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Well, maybe not any Compounder. Things like Weight and Heat are not, in and of themselves, advantages in large quantities, and ones like Electrum might border on disadvantageous. I'm still trying to figure out what an Aluminum Compounder would even mean.

On the other hand, even something as mild-seeming as a Bronze Compounder would be amazingly cool: you are always perfectly alert without any sleep, and can detect any Allomancy around you. It doesn't exactly shout "Ninja Dinosaur," but it is not to be underestimated.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Also, I only just now realized that my Zinc/Electrum idea, if correct, would just be an absurdly circuitous lead-in for your username.

I'd be scared of a Weight compounder, we see Wax FLATTEN a building with weight and Pushing and that was just an amount of weight stored by normal means, a weight compounder could probably Pull buildings to bits for fun.

also LMAO.

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Explicitly, mental speed is not altered at all by Steel - that needs a different Metalmind. So, yes, you'd have to be careful, but the potential is still frightening.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

I realize that, but I think there is still probably a limited enhancement of the mind, the same way tapping weight increases Wax's internal strength so that he doesn't break himself apart. It would be slight, and it would be specific to the part of your mind that controls your movement, perhaps, but I think it would still be there.

An entirely random thought just ran through my head. If thought is related to electrical pulses running through our brains, does that mean that tapping mental speed would affect how our body conducts electricity? If so, what would that mean?

I'd be scared of a Weight compounder, we see Wax FLATTEN a building with weight and Pushing and that was just an amount of weight stored by normal means, a weight compounder could probably Pull buildings to bits for fun.

also LMAO.

Black hole, here I come! Edited by Sir_Read-a-Lot
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Yeah, I can only attribute my missing the power of Weight Compounding to distraction, and even that is no excuse - I was thinking that too much weight would immobilize the user, but through Wax, we know that would not happen.

When using their powers for Pulling and not just creating singularities, though, they'd have to be very careful: pull on a piece of metal while your weight is several tons, and it might come at you hard enough to punch through the two-inch thick Aluminum plate on your belly.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Everything I have posted in this thread, I had written down from the start, and everything others mention I have been adding as we go. I honestly hope I never go insane enough to start trying to name all 255 non-Crasher combinations.

P.P.S. Also, am I the only one who was suspicious of the implication that there were generally-used names for all the possible combinations, despite the fact that Twinborns are maybe one in a thousand and there are so many types, there must not be more than a handful of each time in the whole world at a given time?

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* Speaking of storing Speed, am I the only one who thinks that a Steel Compounder would be even scarier than Miles? They would be really, absurdly fast, probably to the point of near-invisibility, and they'd have all the tricks a normal Coinshot does. Brrr.

If I were trying to fight one, I would bring a pulser or slider with me. We know that hitting the edge of a bubble jostled Wax, and he wouldn't have been going very quickly. A steel compounder hitting the edge of either bubble would either be flattened or would explode. And without added mental speed, the steel compounder probably wouldn't be able to stop running in time to avoid the bubble.

Some less battle-oriented twinborns:

Brass misting, chromium ferring: When gambling, he could tap luck, while soothing the emotions of those around him so they didn't become suspicious/angered. Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.

Zinc misting, duralumin ferring: Actor/actress (for theater and opera, not television). She could riot whatever she wanted the audiences to be feeling while tapping connection with them so they were more empathetic.

Thinking of stage works, a well-placed pulser could make set changes much quicker from the audience's perspective (steel ferring would also help, but would not be essential).

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Yeah, I can only attribute my missing the power of Weight Compounding to distraction, and even that is no excuse - I was thinking that too much weight would immobilize the user, but through Wax, we know that would not happen.

When using their powers for Pulling and not just creating singularities, though, they'd have to be very careful: pull on a piece of metal while your weight is several tons, and it might come at you hard enough to punch through the two-inch thick Aluminum plate on your belly.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Everything I have posted in this thread, I had written down from the start, and everything others mention I have been adding as we go. I honestly hope I never go insane enough to start trying to name all 255 non-Crasher combinations.

P.P.S. Also, am I the only one who was suspicious of the implication that there were generally-used names for all the possible combinations, despite the fact that Twinborns are maybe one in a thousand and there are so many types, there must not be more than a handful of each time in the whole world at a given time?

Let me put it this way: To us, this stuff is all fictional. Just a game. Fun, but of no consequence. If there were a world in which these abilities were real, somebody, somewhere, would have sat down to work out names for every combination, no matter how rare they were in real life.

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I'd think that a pewterarm with steel or gold feruchemical abilities could store healing or speed and then use their pewter to compensate for the loss. This would presumably allow them to store much greater amounts of healing or speed than a regular feruchemist.

Though it seems that the inquisitors were unable to do this (they needed to rest a ton to charge their healing spikes) so maybe I'm wrong.

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I'd think that a pewterarm with steel or gold feruchemical abilities could store healing or speed and then use their pewter to compensate for the loss. This would presumably allow them to store much greater amounts of healing or speed than a regular feruchemist.

Though it seems that the inquisitors were unable to do this (they needed to rest a ton to charge their healing spikes) so maybe I'm wrong.

Yes, but their abilities weren't quite as powerful, due to Hemalurgic decay.

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I've been assuming that inquisitors were intentionally not given gold allomancy, to keep them more manageable by The Lord Ruler. Remember that the inquisitors weren't natural mistborn, so you could easily leave out something like gold allomancy on purpose.

Did the "default" inquisitor setup, during TLR's time, include any feruchemy beyond gold?

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Yes, but their abilities weren't quite as powerful, due to Hemalurgic decay.

I don't think Hemalurgic decay would screw up compounding very much. "Oh no, I only get 5x what I should get instead of 10x or 100x." Anything more than significantly more than 1:1 would allow for huge power.

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I don't think that the Lord Ruler's Inquisitors got any Gold Compounding, though, just the potential advantages of using Pewter to compensate for filling Goldminds. (Some of them seem to have Steelminds, though, so I guess they must have been able to Compound that.) But, to be honest, I don't even know what exact effects storing up an Inquisitor's health would have, since I do not know what the "normal" health is for a being that's been impaled until it can barely function, and is only surviving through an excess of other people's spirits stuck into its own.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Continuing with odd synergies, here's a truly goofy one: a Bendalloy Misting with Chromiumminds could enter a bubble of time, and then start firing guns outward, in all directions, while tapping their Luck. by random chance, some of those bullets should score hits, while the Twinborn is relatively impervious. Of course, almost any combination involving Chromiumminds is potentially nuts.

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I've been assuming that inquisitors were intentionally not given gold allomancy, to keep them more manageable by The Lord Ruler. Remember that the inquisitors weren't natural mistborn, so you could easily leave out something like gold allomancy on purpose.

Did the "default" inquisitor setup, during TLR's time, include any feruchemy beyond gold?

I wasn't thinking of compounding, just using the augmented healing effect of Pewter allomancy to compensate for the effect of storing gold.

Edited by fyodor
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Did any of them have steelminds during TLR's era? I thought that it was just the gold spike. I remember Vin and Elend being pretty surprised and shocked when one of the Inquisitors showed off his superspeed at the beginning of HoA.

I don't think that the Lord Ruler's Inquisitors got any Gold Compounding, though, just the potential advantages of using Pewter to compensate for filling Goldminds. (Some of them seem to have Steelminds, though, so I guess they must have been able to Compound that.) But, to be honest, I don't even know what exact effects storing up an Inquisitor's health would have, since I do not know what the "normal" health is for a being that's been impaled until it can barely function, and is only surviving through an excess of other people's spirits stuck into its own.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Continuing with odd synergies, here's a truly goofy one: a Bendalloy Misting with Chromiumminds could enter a bubble of time, and then start firing guns outward, in all directions, while tapping their Luck. by random chance, some of those bullets should score hits, while the Twinborn is relatively impervious. Of course, almost any combination involving Chromiumminds is potentially nuts.

Edited by fyodor
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By my count they have:

1 gold feruchemical spike

1 electrum allomantic spike (responsible for the "Atium" shadows they produce)

1 each of the base metal allomantic spikes

Possibly a second allomantic steel spike? One of the Inquisitors Vin fights manages to steelpush her easily without so much as stumbling, and she'd previously demonstrated the ability to shove Kelsier back in a pushing match

Sometimes a duralanium spike

Marsh had eleven spikes at the end of The Final Empire, and presumably that's the base set. Only once the Lord Ruler died did they start adding most of the Feruchemical spikes, and I'm pretty sure they didn't have Atium spikes either. Certainly, while they healed far too fast to be explained without Feruchemical gold, they also didn't heal as outrageously fast as Miles.

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