What end is Awakening/Breath?

[Newly Awakened]

All other forms of know Investiture are either end-postive, end-neutral or end-negative. So would BioChromatic Breath be end-postive, end-neutral, or end-negative?

[Argenti]

It depends on the context, Lifeless Creation is probably end-negative, a Nalthian being born is end-positive, and the average awakening is probably end-neutral as no breath is lost or gained.

[alder24]

6 hours ago, Newly Awakened said:

All other forms of know Investiture are either end-postive, end-neutral or end-negative. So would BioChromatic Breath be end-postive, end-neutral, or end-negative?

End-neutral:

Spoiler

Argent

Is normal Awakening and BioChroma an end-neutral system?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Yes. Meaning, you don't lose Breath in the [process].

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

End-positive means power comes from outside sources, like Stormlight or Allomancy that draws from Preservation. End-negative means that power is lost, and it's rare. I would call creating type 2 or 4 Awakening constructs as end negative, as power isn't lost, it's still there, in Lifeless and type 4 entities, but isn't accessible for you. It isn't decaying. End-neutral means that power isn't gained or lost. A practitioner manipulates power that already exists or power that comes from themselves.

Spoiler

Windrunner

Can all Investitures be classified as end-positive, neutral, or negative?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, though in the overwhelming majority of cases, it's end-positive or at least neutral. Hemalurgy really is an oddity in the cosmere.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 25, 2012)

 

[Quantus]

For a more elaborate explanation of the classification as he see's it:

 

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mathota123

Is the creation of skaze end-negative?

Brandon Sanderson

So, you're not quite using the term right.

The terms "end-negative" and "end-positive" refer to a specific system--in most cases, we're talking about the individual(s) using the magic. Do you draw more magic out, or is it powered by your own native Investiture?

Awakening is what we call end-neutral, despite the fact that (obviously) the Breaths came from someone else in the first place. That's not the point in contention here--do the same number of Breaths (the same amount of Investiture) continue to exist in the system as you're manipulating the magic.

In something like AonDor, you are drawing out much more power than you put in--end-positive. That power is put to work doing something, such as healing a body, or creating a blast of power.

The skaze, like the seons, were created when a Shard was Splintered. The terminology doesn't quite work there, at least not in the way that scholars in the cosmere would use it.

The question from the physicist in this thread about where Investiture goes, and what it means for a Shard to have access to certain amounts of power, is related to all of this. I'm hoping to be able to find some time to craft a response there, as there are some fundamental understandings of the magic that are relevant to the discussion that I should point out.

Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 21, 2016)

 

 

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Questioner

So for the Old Magic, in this classification system of end-positive, end-neutral, and end-negative, where would that fall under?

Brandon Sanderson

So, almost every magic in the cosmere is end-positive, almost every magic is relying upon an external source of Investiture to power it. So that phrasing is mostly more relevant to Scadrial than anywhere else, because that concept is how I'm dealing with things like the laws of thermodynamics, and even what they call end-neutral is relying a little bit on the power of Investiture to facilitate. So even an end-neutral magic system as they define it on Scadrial is actually not end-neutral. What you get put in you get out, but the power is facilitating that transfer… So that phrasing is kind of a... Take that as a science on.. Scadrial that does not extrapolate well, and may not even be 100% accurate.

Moderator

That would have been a great thing to know before we did the cosmere magic panel. *laughter*

Brandon Sanderson

I look at it as, is an Investiture externally powering the magic, and if you look at Allomancy, yes it is. You are drawing that power out. Feruchemy, you are putting Investiture in from your own body, it's your energy transferring to Investiture, which is being stored, which you are then drawing out, and things like that. But that changing forms is facilitated by the magic. Whereas you're stealing stuff with-- So you could look, for instance at the magic on Nalthis, you could look at that one as being-- as kind of working as end-negative, meaning "I am taking it away from someone else", or end-positive depending on if you're the one receiving it or not. So again, it's a phrasing that can be useful as a tool but doesn't scale well to the other magics.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)