Posted March 25 So, we know that Shallan has earned her blade by book two via oaths. This is demonstrated when she lends her Blade to Kaladin in the Chasms. However, this was demonstrated after she swore her truth of killing her father and before admitting to killing her mother. So, when did she earn her Blade, because she needed to swear two truths and the First Ideal to earn her Blade. So, my question is, what was the other truth, and when did she swear it? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Kendelian said: So, we know that Shallan has earned her blade by book two via oaths. This is demonstrated when she lends her Blade to Kaladin in the Chasms. However, this was demonstrated after she swore her truth of killing her father and before admitting to killing her mother. So, when did she earn her Blade, because she needed to swear two truths and the First Ideal to earn her Blade. So, my question is, what was the other truth, and when did she swear it? Did you read RoW? She was on the 2nd Oath during the entire WoR up until speaking that she'd killed her mother. And here is this WoB saying that the numbers of Ideals for Radiants to get their Shardblades depends on the Order they're in, so Lightweavers might be the lucky one who got their Shardblade at 2nd Oath (1st Truth): Spoiler Kythis Is there a specific number of the ideals that they have to do before they can get the Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson It depends on the Order. Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014) If you read RoW, look into spoiler box below: Spoiler So the other theory is that it wasn't Pattern during WoR, it was all Testament, and Lightweavers do get their blades at 3rd Ideal like others. Maybe that's just because she is still alive and reminiscences of Nahel Bonds are still connecting them, so Testament as a Shardblade doesn't behave like a regular Deadeye (no screaming, changing shapes, opening Oathgates). Or maybe Shallan started to recreate her Oaths with Testament at some point, which strengthened it enough to allow her to summon Testament as a Radiant Shardblade, much more alive than regular Deadeye. Quoting @Treamayne from a different topic: Quote We know the Chasms used a Testament Blade because: Shallan is shown to be hiding by a boulder using a shadow illusion while: At the same time Pattern is hosting an illusion of Shallan moving in the open and "yelling" to distract the Chasmfield while At the same time Kaladin is holding the Testament Blade. So based on that, we can deduce: Testamant's blade can still change shape like a living Shardblade (for whatever reason) Every instance of a Shardblade we see with Shallan in WoR is likely to be a TestamentBlade (Tyn, Chasms, Narak). Shallan calling for Pattern in Narak is the start of Veil "protecting" Shallan by covering over memories. Since Shallan is getting close to the Truth about her mother, but isn't nearly ready for the Truth about Testament - she "says" Pattern to summon the TestamantBlade to lay the foundation of future self-deception. You can tell that Shallan's interactions with Renarin change subtly once they find a way into the Oathgate Chamber. If you want to read more about Shallan's Ideals count and where and how did she use Testament as a blade, read more here, where we talked about it: And here is my theory about Shallans reconstructing her Ideals with Testament: Edited March 25 by alder24 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Spoiler We know the Chasms used a Testament Blade because: Shallan is shown to be hiding by a boulder using a shadow illusion while: At the same time Pattern is hosting an illusion of Shallan moving in the open and "yelling" to distract the Chasmfield while At the same time Kaladin is holding the Testament Blade. So based on that, we can deduce: Testamant's blade can still change shape like a living Shardblade (for whatever reason) Every instance of a Shardblade we see with Shallan in WoR is likely to be a TestamentBlade (Tyn, Chasms, Narak). Shallan calling for Pattern in Narak is the start of Veil "protecting" Shallan by covering over memories. Since Shallan is getting close to the Truth about her mother, but isn't nearly ready for the Truth about Testament - she "says" Pattern to summon the TestamantBlade to lay the foundation of future self-deception. You can tell that Shallan's interactions with Renarin change subtly once they find a way into the Oathgate Chamber. That's really interesting! I'm glad you found those bits and pointed them out; now I can theorize more about Deadeye Shardblades! Edited March 25 by Trusk'our 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 31 But what about the blade that killed her mother? Would she have the deadeye blade from Testament and the blade from Pattern? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 31 Or were all the there only blades from the Recreance and not newer? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 31 24 minutes ago, Shadonin said: But what about the blade that killed her mother? Would she have the deadeye blade from Testament and the blade from Pattern? 22 minutes ago, Shadonin said: Or were all the there only blades from the Recreance and not newer? She killed her mother with Testament, which was a living spren. Since she has broken her bond with Testament, she has a dead Shardblade, and since she has bonded Pattern, and told her second Truth (I killed my mother), she has also Pattern as a living Shardblade. Please avoid double posting. You can edit your previous post by clicking "edit" option at the bottom of your post 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 31 I don’t agree that the chasm blade or Narak blade was Testament. The blade didn’t scream when Kaladin touched it. Also, there is nothing to say that Shallan can’t lightweave while Pattern is a blade. We have seen plenty of other examples of people surgebinding while their Spren is in blade form. Shard weapons can be thrown without the user losing the ability to surgebind So there is some proximity flexibility as well. We also know that Shallan can make and maintain multiple illusions at once. So there is absolutely no proof that the chasm blade isn’t Pattern. There is nothing to prove that Testament is a “special” Deadeyes that wouldn’t scream in someone’s head or be able to activate an Oathgate. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 31 14 minutes ago, Marabout said: I don’t agree that the chasm blade or Narak blade was Testament. The blade didn’t scream when Kaladin touched it. At that point Kaladin's Oaths were almost broken, to the point where he couldn't even breathe in Stormlight. Syl was almost dead. He was too far away from the Cognitive/Spiritual Realm that he simply couldn't hear Shardblades screams anymore. And also Syl was far away, and distance between Radiant and spren also matters a bit. 14 minutes ago, Marabout said: Also, there is nothing to say that Shallan can’t lightweave while Pattern is a blade. We have seen plenty of other examples of people surgebinding while their Spren is in blade form. Shard weapons can be thrown without the user losing the ability to surgebind So there is some proximity flexibility as well. We also know that Shallan can make and maintain multiple illusions at once. So there is absolutely no proof that the chasm blade isn’t Pattern. It's not that she can't Surgebind with her blade in hand, it's that at that point Shallan could make an illusions far away from her, which are moving and talking only by attaching them to Pattern, and making Pattern do the talking. 14 minutes ago, Marabout said: There is nothing to prove that Testament is a “special” Deadeyes that wouldn’t scream in someone’s head or be able to activate an Oathgate. Testament is the only Shardblade whose original Knight is still alive. That's special. Plus Shallan herself noted in RoW that she remembers she was using Surgebinding after breaking her bond with Testament, but before bonding Pattern. That's special too. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 1 It’s an overcomplicated and convoluted theory like a square peg being forced into a circular hole. Shallan literally calls out Pattern’s name to summon her blade to open the Oathgate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 1 6 hours ago, Marabout said: Shallan literally calls out Pattern’s name to summon her blade to open the Oathgate. And all Cryptics call themselves Pattern, and it takes proding for them to take another name. Testament was named that way in RoW only, it is entirely possible (and even probable) that when Shallan bonded them, they called themselve simply Pattern, like Cryptics do. So Shallan calling for Pattern could still summon Pattern-Testament, not Pattern-Pattern. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 1 6 hours ago, Marabout said: Shallan literally calls out Pattern’s name to summon her blade to open the Oathgate. Shallan isn't a reliable narrator, she lies to herself to keep functioning, as the truth is too hard for her to accept. We've seen this behaviour in all 4 books. This is just another example of her lying to cover the truth. Spoiler Preservation1 Did Shallan manifest her Shardplate in the final battle of Book Three? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. Shallan has to be big RAFO. You'll understand why when you read this book [Rhythm of War]. Shallan is an untrustworthy narrator. Travis Gafford Interview (Nov. 12, 2020) 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 3 Plus she might not realize she has Testaments blade anymore but thinks of the blade as Pattern. And you are right alder24 she isn't a reliable nararator. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
