Feruchemy in Time Bubbles

[The Stick]

Does anybody know what happens while storing an attribute in a time bubble? Would you store more in a Bendalloy bubble or less in a Cadmium bubble?

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, The Stick said:

Does anybody know what happens while storing an attribute in a time bubble? Would you store more in a Bendalloy bubble or less in a Cadmium bubble?

It changes your frame of time. So you store and tap in a timeframe you're currently in. In bendalloy bubble, you store for a 1 min, you get 1 min of attribute in your metalmind, but outside it only was 5 seconds. You still have 1 min of attribute in your metalmind after popping the bubble. The opposite happens for cadmium bubbles.

[The Stick]

Spoiler

Couldn't Wayne could have used this to gain crazy amounts of healing and live?

 

[alder24]

Bendalloy is very pricey, and Wayne is always limited because of that. He has only a few minutes of bendalloy at most. And those can be spend much better on fighting than on storing health.

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

He couldn't. Even better option, compounding won't work as there was not enough gold to compound and not enough time for it. Check out this topic in TLM spoiler section of the forum: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/116307-gold-at-the-end-of-the-book/

 

It's a good practice to write before placing a spoiler tag, what books does it spoil. Like I write “TLM spoilers:”. Many people, including me, place WoBs in spoiler tags, so many will open them expecting WoB, and instead they get spoilers.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by alder24

[The Stick]

Thanks, I am still new at this after forum lurking forever. 

 

[alder24]

11 minutes ago, The Stick said:

Thanks, I am still new at this after forum lurking forever. 

No problem, we've all been there  

[Immortal Platypus]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Bendalloy is very pricey, and Wayne is always limited because of that. He has only a few minutes of bendalloy at most. And those can be spend much better on fighting than on storing health.

TLM spoilers:

 

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

Didn't at the end it talk about how rich he was and that he had a ton of Bendalloy? Am I just wrong?

 

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Being of Cacophony said:

TLM spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Didn't at the end it talk about how rich he was and that he had a ton of Bendalloy? Am I just wrong?

 

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

Yes, but that was only in TLM. Wax and Marasi thought he was just being responsible with his supplies. But before TLM he had only minutes of bendalloy with him, and Wax had to often provide it for him, as it is very expensive.

 

[Immortal Platypus]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

TLM spoilers:

  Hide contents

Yes, but that was only in TLM. Wax and Marasi thought he was just being responsible with his supplies. But before TLM he had only minutes of bendalloy with him, and Wax had to often provide it for him, as it is very expensive.

 

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

so with all that bendalloy, couldn't he have gotten a lot of gold storage?

 

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, Being of Cacophony said:

TLM spoilers:

  Hide contents

so with all that bendalloy, couldn't he have gotten a lot of gold storage?

 

TLM spoiler 

Spoiler

At the end, he had to disable the bomb. The explosion was comparable to the  Beirut explosion (0.5-1 kt), which in epicenter reached 3000 degree Celsius. Gold vaporized at 2970 degree Celsius. None of that healing would help him when his goldminds would just vaporize.

Gathering health in his free time would be difficult for him. He had a job, he had to go after the Set, arrest criminals, manage his business, and spend time with his friends. If in his free time he would use the bubble, he would compress the time few times, he wouldn't get Miles amounts of health from that. He didn't have much free time in TLM at all, he was always on the move or with someone, so he couldn't use bubbles in that time. The most free time he got during TLM was when he was traveling from Elendel to Bilming in a truck, which is too small to make a bubble. Then spending literal fortune to gain more health is

not sustainable. So while he could do it in his free time, he didn't have free time.

 

[Immortal Platypus]

30 minutes ago, alder24 said:

TLM spoiler 

  Hide contents

At the end, he had to disable the bomb. The explosion was comparable to the  Beirut explosion (0.5-1 kt), which in epicenter reached 3000 degree Celsius. Gold vaporized at 2970 degree Celsius. None of that healing would help him when his goldminds would just vaporize.

Gathering health in his free time would be difficult for him. He had a job, he had to go after the Set, arrest criminals, manage his business, and spend time with his friends. If in his free time he would use the bubble, he would compress the time few times, he wouldn't get Miles amounts of health from that. He didn't have much free time in TLM at all, he was always on the move or with someone, so he couldn't use bubbles in that time. The most free time he got during TLM was when he was traveling from Elendel to Bilming in a truck, which is too small to make a bubble. Then spending literal fortune to gain more health is

not sustainable. So while he could do it in his free time, he didn't have free time.

 

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

I'm not saying that he could have survived, although I have a theory of how to avoid the metalminds evaporating. If you want to read it, here it is.

Spoiler

So, he is a mistborn so he could kind of compound at the end. This is accomplished by burning stored health, unless I'm mistaken. So, if he had duralumin at the end, right before the explosion he could have duralumin burned the metalminds and gotten a huge influx of health, which would prevent the metalminds from evaporating and might have kept him alive. Maybe. It's probably not likely, but it could have happened. We do have a WOB that says that the metal has to be inside you, but the implanted metalminds might work for that.

I don't think it would have been as hard as you seem to think. Wasn't there a multiple year gap between BoM and TLM? So he would have had some time during that. It's also possible that they don't have the in-world knowledge that that's how it works. And depending on the size of the truck, he might have been able to do it. He can change the size of his bubbles. I think that there was a little more time to store it than you seem to think, but there wasn't very much, I agree.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Being of Cacophony said:

TLM spoilers:

  Hide contents

I'm not saying that he could have survived, although I have a theory of how to avoid the metalminds evaporating. If you want to read it, here it is.

  Hide contents

So, he is a mistborn so he could kind of compound at the end. This is accomplished by burning stored health, unless I'm mistaken. So, if he had duralumin at the end, right before the explosion he could have duralumin burned the metalminds and gotten a huge influx of health, which would prevent the metalminds from evaporating and might have kept him alive. Maybe. It's probably not likely, but it could have happened. We do have a WOB that says that the metal has to be inside you, but the implanted metalminds might work for that.

I don't think it would have been as hard as you seem to think. Wasn't there a multiple year gap between BoM and TLM? So he would have had some time during that. It's also possible that they don't have the in-world knowledge that that's how it works. And depending on the size of the truck, he might have been able to do it. He can change the size of his bubbles. I think that there was a little more time to store it than you seem to think, but there wasn't very much, I agree.

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

Compounding wouldn't help him. He had too little gold to burn, with no more health stored in that gold (he used it all up to heal the damage done by the fall with anti-Wax), so even with duralumin (which was mostly used up to create a time bubble), he would never get the amount of health needed to survived such explosion. And even the bubble lasted for a very short time (likely just several seconds/dozens of seconds at best from Wayne's perspective), so had no way of accumulating health needed to survive.

 

Yes there was a 6 year gap between the books. Somewhere in that time he became a richy rich. But during that time he was still fighting, investigating and arresting criminals, so he would regularly use up his reserves.

TLM ch 53:

Quote

“This might not be the best time to store up health,” Wax whispered softly.

“I’m runnin’ low,” Wayne mumbled. “I feel like I’m gonna need every bit I can store. That, or I’ll die one of these times somebody shoots me. That’s right terrifying, it is. Don’t know how you all deal with it.” He paused. “If we get inna fight, I’ll stop. Just need to squeeze a little extra in during breathers,you know.”

Wax didn’t say anything. This was more a matter of comfort to Waynethan anything practical. Wayne wouldn’t be able to store up much in the time they had. It took a Feruchemist months storing health to get a full metalmind.

So if it takes Wayne 180 days of storing to fill up his metalminds, and bendalloy compresses the time 10x, he would still need to spend 18 whole days in a bubble storing health. Considering that before TLM he could only afford bendalloy for less than 10 minutes, and that's with Wax help (who is rich), even when now he is that rich, he would spend all his money after just a few times he tries to fill his goldmind in the bubble. Bendalloy is still expensive, one nugget costing around five hundred notes, whatever it is in boxings.

It's likely that the bubble is tied to the mass of the moving object, not its size. Train is massive enough, yet Marasi bubble still reached the outside of the train.

 

[Immortal Platypus]

12 minutes ago, alder24 said:

TLM spoilers:

  Hide contents

Compounding wouldn't help him. He had too little gold to burn, with no more health stored in that gold (he used it all up to heal the damage done by the fall with anti-Wax), so even with duralumin (which was mostly used up to create a time bubble), he would never get the amount of health needed to survived such explosion. And even the bubble lasted for a very short time (likely just several seconds/dozens of seconds at best from Wayne's perspective), so had no way of accumulating health needed to survive.

 

Yes there was a 6 year gap between the books. Somewhere in that time he became a richy rich. But during that time he was still fighting, investigating and arresting criminals, so he would regularly use up his reserves.

TLM ch 53:

So if it takes Wayne 180 days of storing to fill up his metalminds, and bendalloy compresses the time 10x, he would still need to spend 18 whole days in a bubble storing health. Considering that before TLM he could only afford bendalloy for less than 10 minutes, and that's with Wax help (who is rich), even when now he is that rich, he would spend all his money after just a few times he tries to fill his goldmind in the bubble. Bendalloy is still expensive, one nugget costing around five hundred notes, whatever it is in boxings.

It's likely that the bubble is tied to the mass of the moving object, not its size. Train is massive enough, yet Marasi bubble still reached the outside of the train.

 

TLM spoiler:

Spoiler

I disagree. It would help him. It might not help him enough to survive, but it would help. if he got caught on the ship, it would help. If he was able to survive long enough that the explosion blasted him away, then he might have been able to survive. It's not likely, but it's possible. I think that he could have survived, even if it's not likely. The time to completely fill a metalmind matters less than you think. Compounding pretty much ignores the time restraint, especially if he used duralumin to do it. And even with the little gold he had, compounding would have helped somewhat. His time bubble was powerful enough to freeze a dual-Shard. I think that if he hadn't thrown out the barrels, he would have had plenty of time to compound to his heart's content (or until his gold ran out). I doubt that the electric signal moves faster than a Shard can.

Marasi couldn't control the size of her bubble, Wayne can. I believe that it's tied to both.

 

[alder24]

Just now, Being of Cacophony said:

TLM spoiler:

  Hide contents

I disagree. It would help him. It might not help him enough to survive, but it would help. if he got caught on the ship, it would help. If he was able to survive long enough that the explosion blasted him away, then he might have been able to survive. It's not likely, but it's possible. I think that he could have survived, even if it's not likely. The time to completely fill a metalmind matters less than you think. Compounding pretty much ignores the time restraint, especially if he used duralumin to do it. And even with the little gold he had, compounding would have helped somewhat. His time bubble was powerful enough to freeze a dual-Shard. I think that if he hadn't thrown out the barrels, he would have had plenty of time to compound to his heart's content (or until his gold ran out). I doubt that the electric signal moves faster than a Shard can.

Marasi couldn't control the size of her bubble, Wayne can. I believe that it's tied to both.

 

TLM spoilers:

Spoiler

The explosion wouldn't blast him off the ship, he was in between 3 exploding barrels, forces from 3 sides would squeeze him there with no way out, it would vaporized him in every millisecond with the power of around 1kt (which is one of the biggest man made non-nuclear explosions ever made), there is no amount of healing that he could get from literally 0 that would help him survive that. Even Miles wouldn't survive that. Vaporizing goldminds would kill them both instantly.

Compounding doesn't ignore time. You burn metalminds like they were regular metals. You likely burn them faster, but still need to burn them a considerable amount of time to get a nice amount of attributes (there was nice math done in another topic Fullborn vs Windrunner). With duralumin you get that instantly, that's true. But compounding won't help, when you have no health at all. That was Wayne's state, he used up all his health in fights with anti-Wayne and anti-Wax. He had nothing left. 0*10=0. And the attribute you get is used up at the same time if you have nowhere to store it in.

He can compound with duralumin only once, as it's hard to control it when burning duralumin. He would only burn his whole goldmind, mostly as a regular A-gold (because it's empty) if he had enough duralumin (WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98/#e860). He has too little gold to compound, and he would have to burn half of his metalmind to fill up fully the other half - which takes time and only provides him with half of few months of health. But he didn't have time at all. He used up his duralumin to compress time to a nearly light speed frame, not to make it last longer. He was on several ticking clocks, he had no time to compound. It's likely the bubble would shatter at the same time, as he wasn't burning bendalloy anymore, and he wasn't pushing on reality, reality was pushing back on the bubble however.

 

[Immortal Platypus]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

TLM spoilers:

  Hide contents

The explosion wouldn't blast him off the ship, he was in between 3 exploding barrels, forces from 3 sides would squeeze him there with no way out, it would vaporized him in every millisecond with the power of around 1kt (which is one of the biggest man made non-nuclear explosions ever made), there is no amount of healing that he could get from literally 0 that would help him survive that. Even Miles wouldn't survive that. Vaporizing goldminds would kill them both instantly.

Compounding doesn't ignore time. You burn metalminds like they were regular metals. You likely burn them faster, but still need to burn them a considerable amount of time to get a nice amount of attributes (there was nice math done in another topic Fullborn vs Windrunner). With duralumin you get that instantly, that's true. But compounding won't help, when you have no health at all. That was Wayne's state, he used up all his health in fights with anti-Wayne and anti-Wax. He had nothing left. 0*10=0. And the attribute you get is used up at the same time if you have nowhere to store it in.

He can compound with duralumin only once, as it's hard to control it when burning duralumin. He would only burn his whole goldmind, mostly as a regular A-gold (because it's empty) if he had enough duralumin (WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98/#e860). He has too little gold to compound, and he would have to burn half of his metalmind to fill up fully the other half - which takes time and only provides him with half of few months of health. But he didn't have time at all. He used up his duralumin to compress time to a nearly light speed frame, not to make it last longer. He was on several ticking clocks, he had no time to compound. It's likely the bubble would shatter at the same time, as he wasn't burning bendalloy anymore, and he wasn't pushing on reality, reality was pushing back on the bubble however.

 

Okay. I'll concede this point. You argued it well, I think that there are a couple things that I could argue back, but i don't have a copy of TLM so if I do, that will have to wait. You clearly know a lot about that.

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Being of Cacophony said:

Okay. I'll concede this point. You argued it well, I think that there are a couple things that I could argue back, but i don't have a copy of TLM so if I do, that will have to wait. You clearly know a lot about that.

Yeah, I spent too much time lastly arguing with people about compounding. Definitely too much. And this particular topic about TLM has also been argued by me a few times since the book's release. But I had a nice time discussing it with you again  

[Immortal Platypus]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yeah, I spent too much time lastly arguing with people about compounding. Definitely too much. And this particular topic about TLM has also been argued by me a few times since the book's release. But I had a nice time discussing it with you again  

Yeah. I also look at the most unlikely ways for something that I want to happen to happen, so that's a lot of what my reasons were  thanks, that was fun