Trell Religion *SPOILERS*

[lauren.e135]

It could be because I am quite tired at the moment, but if you stare at those two sentences in a weird way, it says that the Words of Founding and its teaching proved men like Miles were special, not necessarily that "Trell says men like Miles were special." (Also, what the crap, that second sentence is totally a fragment. Was that intentional in context, or is that a typo?)

Haha, wow serious typo. "The Words of Founding had even included a lengthy explanation of Trellism and its teachings, which proved men like Miles were special."

So, I have no idea what to think about the unknown metals, except that I'm kind of scared by them.

My initial thoughts when reading the broadsheet was that it was just hype to sell the paper and it's going to turn out that there was nothing special about the metals at all. Kind of like "Have we found the Arc of the Covenant?! Stay tuned to find out." And at the very end of the hour long program they go "Oh, guess not!"

However, if it is not simply a case of hype, then I agree with you Chaos. Real mystical objects from across the sea never bode well, ha.

[DariusJenai]

I don't think Nicrosil and Chromium have been discovered yet. Wax thinks at one point about the WoF referring to 2 unfound metals, but they seem to be seperate from the 'lost' God metals.

Besides, if they existed, I would think either Wax or Wayne would have at least thought about the possibility of a Nicroburst/Slider combo to get a powerful enough Time Bubble for train robbing.

[Dahak]

So, I have no idea what to think about the unknown metals, except that I'm kind of scared by them.

The Ars Arcanum mentions alloys of Atium or Lerasium and the Sixteen metals. We've seen one of those 32 so far.

ISTR there was an implication that the Lerasium alloys might auto burn to induce misting status.

Why do I suspect Sazedium is a 50%/50% alloy of Atium and Lerasium that anyone can burn to become a Feruchemist?

[Aiken Frost]

Why do I suspect Sazedium is a 50%/50% alloy of Atium and Lerasium that anyone can burn to become a Feruchemist?

Hah! Loved that!

[Deus Ex Biotica]

1: is it possible that other poeple were alive on Scadrial outside of the final empire (the nahlezan for instance)? It would help explain the need for misting breeders, as anyone not involved with TLR's ascencion would not have access to allomancy.

In the Annotations for Hero Of Ages, Brandon Sanderson is very clear on the point that only the polar regions of Scadrial were habitable, and the Final Empire is at the north pole. He poses the question of what is at the south pole multiple times, but offers no answer - it is safe to assume that something major is there.

[happyman]

In the Annotations for Hero Of Ages, Brandon Sanderson is very clear on the point that only the polar regions of Scadrial were habitable, and the Final Empire is at the north pole. He poses the question of what is at the south pole multiple times, but offers no answer - it is safe to assume that something major is there.

I believe that he did mention once, in the Annotations, that TLR knew that his changes to humanity might not be sustainable, so he figured out an alternative way to protect people from the nasty world he had accidentally created. I assume we are going to find a very odd culture on the other pole when all is said and done. My personally guess is "cave dwellers," myself. Surely Sazed knows about them, though.

[Catalyst21]

@Peter can you clarify if the following statement from Brandon is still true?

Date = September 2010

Source = https://sites.google.com/site/brandonothology/brandonothology/part-3

17th Shard: Are there a limited amount of atium and lerasium alloys for each metal?

Brandon: Hmm, yes…I suppose there would be but there are…

17th Shard: More than sixteen?

Brandon: Yeah, way more than sixteen.

17th Shard: Oh wow. Okay. That's fascinating. More than sixteen and less than infinite.

Brandon: Yes.

[Musicspren]

Trelagism - in its original form - probably did address feruchemists. They were a part of Scadrial before Rashek's ascension, so many religions might have addressed them. The Words of Founding could have included the original Trell beliefs on feruchemists. Allomancy would seem to have just been appearing at that point, so the Trell's followers might not have accounted for that (although perhaps it had been around long enough for them to). Unless Miles says at some point that Trell said Twinborns were important, he could merely be referring to his feruchemical abilities.

What does this have to do with Rust and Ruin? It's possible that the "rust" part is not significant and Brandon just likes the sound of "Rust and Ruin" better than merely "Ruin." Could it be that Ruin created the Trelagism to distract people from the more realistic Terris religion? What if it is a corruption of the Terris religion (which could explain why it doesn't seem particularly ruinous on the surface)? Ruin might have attempted in the past to sway people away from the Terris religion because he knew he would stay trapped if knowledge of the nature his imprisonment was widely known. But if he could make fewer people follow the Terris religion, there would be a lower chance of someone like Kwaan noticing the changes.

[Orome]

I think i read somewhere that Ruin was cannibalized from another book (aether of night?), and his name in that was Rust, so maybe its just a nod of the head to that. can anyone confirm this?

[phoenix2563]

I thought I read somewhere that Ruin in "Aether of Night" was Decay, rather than Rust. In fact, I think it was a Peter quote where I saw this.

By the way, anyone know where I can get access to read books such as Aether, White Sand or Liar of Partinel?

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I believe that he did mention once, in the Annotations, that TLR knew that his changes to humanity might not be sustainable, so he figured out an alternative way to protect people from the nasty world he had accidentally created. I assume we are going to find a very odd culture on the other pole when all is said and done. My personally guess is "cave dwellers," myself. Surely Sazed knows about them, though.

I am reasonably sure that the "alternative way" was Kandra, who can live indefinitely underground. The annotations mention them as a back-up plan at one point.

As for the "additional metals," I always assumed it was just lies, but the possibility of someone having stumbled across Sazedium is almost too compelling to pass up.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Catalyst21]

I thought I read somewhere that Ruin in "Aether of Night" was Decay, rather than Rust. In fact, I think it was a Peter quote where I saw this.

By the way, anyone know where I can get access to read books such as Aether, White Sand or Liar of Partinel?

You can ask nicely through Brandon's website, that's how I got Aether and WhiteSands. Liar is only available as sample chapters on his website (there are 2 different versions).

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/LiarCh1v3.doc

http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/LiarPt12.doc

Dragonsteel is available at the BYU library, there is talk that you can inter-library loan it, but I have not managed to do so (yet).

check out THIS thread for locations of unreleased works.

[Satsuoni]

You can ask nicely through Brandon's website, that's how I got Aether and WhiteSands.

When did that happen?

I have asked nicely (i think...), but got nothing in return. Maybe I should ask again.

And no, Kandra are a parasitic race, they cannot gain sentience without humans around.

Trellism, huh. I forgot that reference in The Final Empire, but you are right. Maybe the words of founding has included this religion in the list off all others. Or maybe some of the Kelsiers crew has remembered about it.

[lordofsoup]

I thought that Sazed left a book of all the information that was in his metalminds behind with Vin and Elend's bodies. At least thats where I assumed that is where the info came from.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

It was a whole pile of books, but yeah - the Words Of Founding are the sum total of the Keeper's Metalminds.

He had also left a book with his personal thoughts and divine insight, but that one does not appear to have seen widespread distribution, given all the references to Hemalurgy and the like.

[Catalyst21]

When did that happen?

I have asked nicely (i think...), but got nothing in return. Maybe I should ask again.

I requested via the "Email Brandon" link on his main page.

For subject I chose "Request to be Added to the Mailing List"

I asked on: Oct 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM

Here is a copy of my request:

1. Mims, Fl 32754

2. [email protected] [email protected] (yep, double checked)

3. I understand

In addition to being added to the mailing list I would like to request a copy of White Sand and Aether of Night. I would appreciate it so much.

Thank you for your consideration,

James M. Mathews

[email protected] (Triple Checked)

note: the email I submitted is not one I actually use, I own the domain, and that address is aliased to my real email address.

He replied on: Oct 18, 2011 at 10:35 PM

and his response:

James,

You're officially on my mailing list!

I'll be sure to let you know when I'm heading anywhere near Mims on tour.

Also, I've attached WHITE SAND and AETHER OF NIGHT. They are some earlier work and unpolished, but I hope you enjoy them. Also, if you don't mind, please don't distribute them without my permission and let me know if you have trouble opening the files.

Thanks for reading.

Best,

Brandon

Following is the latest newsletter

<newsletter removed to preserve space>

Hope that helps!

[Satsuoni]

I requested via the "Email Brandon" link on his main page.

For subject I chose "Request to be Added to the Mailing List"

I asked on: Oct 14, 2011 at 1:15 PM

Here is a copy of my request:

note: the email I submitted is not one I actually use, I own the domain, and that address is aliased to my real email address.

He replied on: Oct 18, 2011 at 10:35 PM

and his response:

Hope that helps!

That.. is actually more than I hoped for. Thank you. I did write him to be added to mailing list, and probably was added, although I don't remember getting confirmation, except for the fact that some newsletters did come after a month or so. I have asked for Aether of Night separately, and never received any reply, so I assumed that either my email address went straight to spam, or my letter was formulated rudely (about 50/50 on these). So it means Brandon still sends out these works even now.

Back on topic, I think it was mentioned somewhere that 2 of Cosmere worlds are in the same start system. Maybe, if they call Sun as Nalt, Nalthis and Scadrial share a system? Or does my meory play tricks on me again?

[CrazyRioter]

actually Roshar is in the same solar system as the planet whose name I forgot where the unpublished Silence Divine takes place.

[Satsuoni]

actually Roshar is in the same solar system as the planet whose name I forgot where the unpublished Silence Divine takes place.

Hm. Ok then. Must be coincidence.

The idea that the Set has manipulated religion is possible, i guess. But Miles said that he has read the Book Of Founding. I wonder if those were edited, too?

[EnaMai]

Since we are on the topic of Trell and unpublished works, I believe that there is a connection between White Sand and Trellogism. I'm not sure to what extent we can discuss unreleased books so correct me if I'm overstepping the bounds. However, the importance of the sun to one magic system in White Sand immediately reminded me of Sazed's description of Nalt (as I'd just looked it up after finishing AoL). The book also hints at other magic systems that focus on the night/stars.

Additionally, the suffix/word trell appears in a number of important places in White Sand including as a unit of measurement ("few hundred ells wide") and in a title afforded to some magic users (mastrell). This could be coincidence as trell is never associated with religion in the book so far as I recall. However, we know that Rayse is on this planet so there may be a connection between him and Trellogism. Thoughts?

[Ari]

Don't put too much stock in phonetic similarity in Brandon's names for things. There are numerous cases of this being pure coincidence- Ati was the man who became the shard Ruin, but there is also a Seon Ati. There is a glyph in Warbreaker with the same name as a glyph in WoK. I don't recall any time that we've noticed a similar name for something and it's actually been a cosmere revelation- those have been things like "This Hoid fellow sure shows up a lot", and "wow, the smoke from Shardblades in Way of Kings is described awfully similarly to the smoke from Nightblood in Warbreaker, and Brandon referred to both of them as invested objects..."

Edited December 1, 2011 by Ari

[discipleofhoid]

Don't put too much stock in phonetic similarity in Brandon's names for things. There are numerous cases of this being pure coincidence- Ati was the man who became the shard Ruin, but there is also a Seon Ati. There is a glyph in Warbreaker with the same name as a glyph in WoK. I don't recall any time that we've noticed a similar name for something and it's actually been a cosmere revelation- those have been things like "This Hoid fellow sure shows up a lot", and "wow, the smoke from Shardblades in Way of Kings is described awfully similarly to the smoke from Nightblood in Warbreaker, and Brandon referred to both of them as invested objects..."

Although at the same time the religion on nalthis and one in mistborn share a similar name and meta-cosmere are related. In cosmere afaik they aren't but this could be something similar. And with the sevententh shard planet hopping who knows how many religions get transplanted in one form or another?

[Kurkistan]

Although at the same time the religion on nalthis and one in mistborn share a similar name and meta-cosmere are related. In cosmere afaik they aren't but this could be something similar. And with the sevententh shard planet hopping who knows how many religions get transplanted in one form or another?

We know that Brandon did this on purpose, but the question remains as to whether or not the similarity between the two religions is coincidental "in-universe"

Also, the religion Sazed preaches here is one I decided to spin off into its own book, focusing Warbreaker around it. They aren’t the same planet, but I wanted to do more about a religion that worships art, and that was one of the initial motivations for Warbreaker’s setting.

Link

[Windrunner]

There is an actual in-cosmere reason, I got this from the Brandonothology.

Here’s a quote. “Why, the Astalsi were rather advanced—they mixed religion with science quite profoundly. They thought that different colors were indications of different kinds of fortune, and they were quite detailed in their descriptions of light and color. Why, it’s from them that we get some of our best ideas as to what things might have looked like before the Ascension. They had a scale of colors, and use it to describe the sky of the deepest blue and various plants in their shades of green.” Do the pre-Ascension religions correspond to religions from other Shardworlds, as this one seems somewhat like Nalthis?

I mention this in one of the Well of Ascension annotations.

After I came up with the idea and had Sazed mention it, my desire to explore it more was one of the initial motivations for Warbreaker’s setting.

The answer to your question is yes and no. There are shadows.

[discipleofhoid]

There is an actual in-cosmere reason, I got this from the Brandonothology.

So if there are shadows then the trell religon on scandrial and any other trell religion could be shadows of the same thing.