QF65: More Deception: Murder in the Cosmere

[The Wandering Wizard Steel Inquisitor]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

Yeah lol i missed your edits soz 

Thinking about the elderly - Rotspren kind of fits  Old people are close to death. Only problem is, nothing in Mat’s list fits the sudden sound description. So maybe the Picture of a Flower? Mare is pretty old (and dead). Skaa are close to slaves. But that sounds like a stretch. 

Doesn't someone make a sudden sound when they hit the ground after falling from a cliff? Though I think it might be more prolonged sound so...no dice there

[|TJ| Soulcaster]

23 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

@|TJ| Question for you. If the Aracle had picked Sea/Ocean for Location and Blood Loss for Method of Death, with a Chest Injury - what's your guess for Method?

Probably Wiz - [Coin, Sword, Pistol (for the loss of blood from the chest)] + Corroded Silver [presence of water causes corrosion]

[Amanuensis Savant]

15 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Yeah lol i missed your edits soz 

Thinking about the elderly - Rotspren kind of fits  Old people are close to death. Only problem is, nothing in Mat’s list fits the sudden sound description. So maybe the Picture of a Flower? Mare is pretty old (and dead). Skaa are close to slaves. But that sounds like a stretch. 

That's similar logic I had for TJ's Death Rattle (old people being closer to death, Taravangian being old) but neither are super compelling to me =\

ED1T:

Now that's a weird glitch

Edited March 22 by Amanuensis

[Quirksliver Soulcaster]

I don't see why TJ would do anything but Red Flag anyway. It would be funny, and that early why not pick something ridiculous? It's your own personal joke!

Also I'm bad at looking through others' eyes. They make better doors than windows.

Edit: Sorry, the thread moved too far and this doesn't make as much sense anymore. Sorry, I probably shouldn't have said this in the first place.

Edited March 22 by Tani

[Kasimir Sliver]

26 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Doesn't someone make a sudden sound when they hit the ground after falling from a cliff? Though I think it might be more prolonged sound so...no dice there

Stick pointed that out when I theorised that - prolonged because you'd reasonably expect the Ja to be screaming on the way down.

Sigh.

More thoughts on Wilderness options:

-Chasmfiend (generally agree with Archer that it should probably be visual because huge af)
-Firesnap Lizards (idek broskis)
-Deathants (no sound, unless you include the hissing of the pod being punctured; death instant enough though)
-Nightmaw (sudden noise, and lethal)
-Hemalurgic Chimera (possibly Supernatural and unlikely because we last saw them hooting in packs)
-Whitespine (pack hunters, unlikely to be a single sudden sound.)
-Parshendi (sing when they kill, unlikely to be Sudden Sound, arguably a better Battlefield option? Don't feel strongly about the latter.)
-Aimian (if they do the Swarm kill, that's...not likely to lead to a Sudden Sound, unless Hordeling mode activate.)
-Air-Powered Crossbow (sudden sound possible, just a bit ? See discussion of arrows.)
-Bow and Arrow (sudden sound possible, severe injury possible, probably death from bloodloss if you're using a broadhead.)
-Pistol (possible; @|TJ|, I asked you that question because I was hypothesising that there is at least one better way to suggest Pistol via piracy and Ocean associations.)
-Fire (Prolonged, not Sudden Sound)
-Cliff (Prolonged, not Sudden Sound)
-Dehydration (theoretically Prolonged, not Sudden Sound. Had a thought an Elderly Slave was probably more susceptible)
-Meekers (those things are quiet - in Sixth of the Dusk, they communicate telepathically, but you'd expect pack chatter if it counts as noise.)
-Booby Trap (feels like an Accident cause of death)
-Cutaway Vines (Prolonged, not Sudden Sound)
-Sandling (sudden sound and lethal)

Am I missing something? Feels like I'm going in circles here.

Of these, the Nightmaw, Sandling and the Chasmfiend are likely to do partial wounds, but still.

On further reflection, remove Deathants. Feel that Araris would have reflected that via a Leg injury, since the ants tend to swarm out when their nests are disturbed and then bite.

I think my question is: in a world where Araris intends Crossbow or Bow and Arrow, why not select Loss of Blood in the Wilderness? This would also likely rule out some Patji options that would mislead us. Is that sufficient reason to disregard both projectile weapons?

Edited to add:

@Amanuensis @Tani @Araris Valerian @|TJ| @Matrim's Dice @_Stick_:

Ok, I see y'all in the thread, sanity check here please: if you are dying from Loss of Blood, you'd have to basically go into haemorrhagic shock for there to be a Sudden Sound and nothing after that, yeah? (Only thing I have in mind is that it's gotta be some Severe Injury if you aren't also screaming like a struck rassok after that...)

Edited to add 2:

WAIT NVM SORRY IGNORE ARARIS SORRY I SAW THE MASS OF PEOPLE AND JUST AUTOPILOT TAGGED AAAAAAAAAAA

Edited March 22 by Kasimir

[Matrim's Dice Most Ancient]

8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Ok, I see y'all in the thread, sanity check here please: if you are dying from Loss of Blood, you'd have to basically go into haemorrhagic shock for there to be a Sudden Sound and nothing after that, yeah? (Only thing I have in mind is that it's gotta be some Severe Injury if you aren't also screaming like a struck rassok after that...)

To me, Loss of Blood indicates a drawn out death whereas Sudden Sound indicates the opposite (which makes sense with the clues we got). An arrow to the heart would be sudden and instantly severe, imo.

[_Stick_ Soulcaster]

35 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I s2g if Araris removes Slave tomorrow imma cry-laugh my way to work...

that would be wild, considering there was a None option sitting right there xD

12 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Edited to add:

@Amanuensis @Tani @Araris Valerian @|TJ| @Matrim's Dice @_Stick_:

Ok, I see y'all in the thread, sanity check here please: if you are dying from Loss of Blood, you'd have to basically go into haemorrhagic shock for there to be a Sudden Sound and nothing after that, yeah? (Only thing I have in mind is that it's gotta be some Severe Injury if you aren't also screaming like a struck rassok after that...)

basically at this point I don’t think any shooting weapon (bows, firearms etc) makes sense cuz araris wouldve chosen an explicit body part for the hint on corpse (probably head or chest for instant death) but going for partial instead is kinda hmm

Edited March 22 by _Stick_

[Kasimir Sliver]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

To me, Loss of Blood indicates a drawn out death whereas Sudden Sound indicates the opposite (which makes sense with the clues we got). An arrow to the heart would be sudden and instantly severe, imo.

Do you agree with, I think, Aman's contention that if it were an arrow to the heart, our Hint on Corpse clue should've said chest?

Edited to add:

Just now, _Stick_ said:

that would be wild, considering there was a None option sitting right there xD

Yeah but it'd be the biggest indicator that that's what's leading us astray rn. But yes, painful af >>

Just now, _Stick_ said:

basically at this point I don’t think any shooting weapon (bows, firearms etc) makes sense cuz araris wouldve chosen an explicitly body part for the hint on corpse (probably head or chest for instant death) but going for partial instead is kinda hmm

The partial is confusing me, but I'm leaning towards the array of animal death methods again (sigh) ever since:

Quote

Cureus. 2018 Apr; 10(4): e2473.

Published online 2018 Apr 13. doi: 10.7759/cureus.2473

PMCID: PMC5999391

PMID: 29904614

Treatment of Arrow Wounds: A Review

Monitoring Editor: Alexander Muacevic and John R Adler

Rafik Shereen,¹ Rod J Oskouian,² Marios Loukas,¹ and R. Shane Tubbs³

 

Edited March 22 by Kasimir

[|TJ| Soulcaster]

The only way you die from an arrow/pistol/long range weapon by only leaving a partial mark on the body is through blood loss. 

If it causes severe injury, it should have passed through head/chest. If it only leaves a partial, it should have caused blood loss. Partial + Severe Injury = Not long range weapon. 

[_Stick_ Soulcaster]

Ok new theory: 

JNV, Hammer, Hog

You strike once and hit the victim, causing a sudden sound. There is no blood loss as there is only internal bleeding, causing the victim to die slowly but surely. Hog indicates Wilderness. Don’t ask me about the elderly slave. 

[Amanuensis Savant]

5 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Ok new theory: 

JNV, Hammer, Hog

You strike once and hit the victim, causing a sudden sound. There is no blood loss as there is only internal bleeding, causing the victim to die slowly but surely. Hog indicates Wilderness. Don’t ask me about the elderly slave. 

Emphasis mine.

This is why my brain go 

Cause it’s a good theory otherwise (and there’s a few others like that)

Edited March 22 by Amanuensis

[_Stick_ Soulcaster]

Hm. Could bloodsealing solve our elderly slave problem? Skeletals could technically be considered slaves yes? And they could be old why not. 

Alpha, Bloodsealing, Crab Legs. Bam. I’ll make my accusation later tonight after rollover if the game is still going. 

[Amanuensis Savant]

32 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Hm. Could bloodsealing solve our elderly slave problem? Skeletals could technically be considered slaves yes? And they could be old why not. 

Alpha, Bloodsealing, Crab Legs. Bam. I’ll make my accusation later tonight after rollover if the game is still going. 

I like the way you think  might be worth a C2 shot

[Matrim's Dice Most Ancient]

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

Do you agree with, I think, Aman's contention that if it were an arrow to the heart, our Hint on Corpse clue should've said chest?

I suppose. I also think it's reasonable to assume that a bow-and-arrow would lead to Arena or something. Even so, I hesitate to take those out based on a supposed definition since I do think it could fit.

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

The only way you die from an arrow/pistol/long range weapon by only leaving a partial mark on the body is through blood loss. 

I don't think so? This goes back to whether a projectile hitting the head/chest would qualify as partial (which I think it would) since those can insta-kill. Sudden sound + severe injury implies insta kill to me. Maybe this is me just walking back and disagreeing with Aman but I can't say I feel strongly enough about his point to rule this out. Could just be thinking about Partial in the wrong way though.

Ash/Koloss Blade/Wine Bottle?

I also don't want to discount Venomous Bite/Tools from Telrao (as well as AP Crossbow) since I think while Venomous Bite could have been marked in Poison, it's technically not that at all. The bigger problem with that is whether or not it's a severe injury, but idk what else it would really be. Mostly I just like Tools for Slave.

Edit: And rementioning Wiz/Sword/Firemoss. I just like the format of Melee weapon/Slave related item

Edit2: What about Striker/Garrote/Empty Pouch? I guess Garrote would probably be Suffocation.

Edited March 22 by Matrim's Dice

[_Stick_ Soulcaster]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

This goes back to whether a projectile hitting the head/chest would qualify as partial (which I think it would) since those can insta-kill.

Why would it quality as partial over more precise options such as head or chest? Araris is on our side smh 

5 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Mostly I just like Tools for Slave.

Edit: And rementioning Wiz/Sword/Firemoss. I just like the format of Melee weapon/Slave related item

Edit2: What about Striker/Garrote/Empty Pouch? I guess Garrote would probably be Suffocation.

I think ‘Tools’ is better suited for the working class though. But I can see what you mean

Though empty pouch should’ve definitely warranted Peasant over Slave  

[Matrim's Dice Most Ancient]

4 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Why would it quality as partial over more precise options such as head or chest? Araris is on our side smh 

I think ‘Tools’ is better suited for the working class though. But I can see what you mean

Though empty pouch should’ve definitely warranted Peasant over Slave  

Idk. If the given clues were Head, Severe Injury I don't know if Bow and Arrow would be my first thought. What else would be though, it was my first thought for partial/severe injury xD I see what you mean I suppose. But then why go for partial over anything more specific?

Mmm, fair. I haven't really looked at the other options for clues Araris could've given.

[Kasimir Sliver]

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

The only way you die from an arrow/pistol/long range weapon by only leaving a partial mark on the body is through blood loss. 

If it causes severe injury, it should have passed through head/chest. If it only leaves a partial, it should have caused blood loss. Partial + Severe Injury = Not long range weapon. 

Makes sense to me.

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

You strike once and hit the victim, causing a sudden sound. There is no blood loss as there is only internal bleeding, causing the victim to die slowly but surely. Hog indicates Wilderness. Don’t ask me about the elderly slave. 

I see you, too, are suffering

Araris, can you just take that out tomorrow please >> J/k please just do your Aracle thing but seriously I think this is one of the elements that most confuses us right now.

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

You strike once and hit the victim, causing a sudden sound

I think the part I dislike about this is you could've done farm. Farm would have hinted at hog and hammer wouldn't be too off on a farmhouse.

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

Hm. Could bloodsealing solve our elderly slave problem? Skeletals could technically be considered slaves yes? And they could be old why not. 

But why not indicate Supernatural as Method then? Like, if you think it's Bloodsealing and Crab Legs, and the Bloodsealing is indicated by Elderly Slave, why not go: Supernatural + Ocean + Elderly Slave. Then Crab Legs are also implied.

29 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Ash/Koloss Blade/Wine Bottle?

Koloss Blade honestly feels like a Battlefield kind of thing is my problem.

30 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Edit: And rementioning Wiz/Sword/Firemoss. I just like the format of Melee weapon/Slave related item

My styming point for Firemoss is just that it feels like a Hands usecase for Hint on Body. Go Arena/Battlefield + Hand + Elderly Slave. Firemoss is still implied pretty well especially by Hands, and Sword would also be an option we'd still seek out. Even more appropriate since we'd think Gladiator.

24 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Why would it quality as partial over more precise options such as head or chest? Araris is on our side smh 

The problem isn't whether Araris is on our side. It's whether we are able to understand his way of thinking  The Aracle's mind works in mysterious ways!

18 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Idk. If the given clues were Head, Severe Injury I don't know if Bow and Arrow would be my first thought. What else would be though, it was my first thought for partial/severe injury xD I see what you mean I suppose. But then why go for partial over anything more specific?

I'd have gone unhesitatingly for Hammer or Stone to be fair, with regard to Severe Injury + Head. It just reads like a bludgeoning case to me in that scenario.

26 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

I think ‘Tools’ is better suited for the working class though. But I can see what you mean

I'd say this too.

I don't feel the partial worry so much because unless you are doing something really wild with your arrows and bullets, it's going to be precision damage, so partial damage doesn't seem quite right.

[Amanuensis Savant]

My interpretation of Partial is a larger portion of the body was damaged—a combination of chest and head, hands, or legs, for instance—but not so much that the whole body was wrecked. That makes me think multiple wounds or one huge blunt wound, probably by something imprecise like an instinct driven beast. But that might be why I’m hung up because I can’t see many clear options.

Edited March 22 by Amanuensis

[The Wandering Wizard Steel Inquisitor]

1 minute ago, Kasimir said:

I think the part I dislike about this is you could've done farm. Farm would have hinted at hog and hammer wouldn't be too off on a farmhouse.

1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

Not if it is The Hog...which is what I was reading it as, because I don't remember any normal hogs in the cosmere. Only The Hog which was the massive greatshell in Herdaz. And the name Hog was always capitalized in the book. So it might actually fit wilderness better. 

[Kasimir Sliver]

3 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Not if it is The Hog...which is what I was reading it as, because I don't remember any normal hogs in the cosmere. Only The Hog which was the massive greatshell in Herdaz. And the name Hog was always capitalized in the book. So it might actually fit wilderness better. 

Quote

He chose to fight the hog, assuming it was a pig, and began to formulate plans to seek vengeance on the Herdazians for humiliating him. He was doused in a foul-smelling oil and left shackled on the beach as the Herdazians used a horn to summon the hog, which was actually a huge sea creature with enormous claws. Sheler saw the creature break the surface of the ocean while the Herdazians placed wagers on how long he would survive; his ultimate fate is unknown

Edited to add:

3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

My interpretation of Partial is a larger portion of the body was damaged—a combination of chest and head, hands, or legs, for instance—but not so much that the whole body was wrecked. That makes me think multiple wounds or one huge blunt wound, probably by something imprecise like an instinct driven beast or a giant rock. But that might be why I’m hung I can’t see many clear options.

I don't see it as larger portion, just more than one zone of damage, probably, but definitely less than 'all over.' But that's what is pulling me off pack animal cases, e.g. Hemalurgic chimeras, whitespines - at this juncture, it feels like those are more likely to go mass damage.

Edited March 22 by Kasimir

[The Wandering Wizard Steel Inquisitor]

Just now, Kasimir said:

 

Alright then

I just always thought of the word hog in here as the hog. 

[Kasimir Sliver]

8 minutes ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Alright then

I just always thought of the word hog in here as the hog. 

I low-key want you to have been the Assassin who picked Firesnap Lizards, figuring that no one knows what the hell they are except that they kill >>

Edited to add:

...Stormfather, please give us a good tile >>

Edited March 22 by Kasimir

[TheAlpha929 Soulcaster]

Yes please 

[xinoehp512 Rambleman]

 

Dakhor Ritual	Buried Alive	Shardblade	Rathbore Monk	Blackbane Leaf
Dagger	Black Frayn	Nightblood	Deepwalker	Dehydration
Tompher Poison	Rope	Highstorm	Meekers	Fire
Steelrunning	Cut-away vines	Bloodsealing	Hook	Poisonous Sting
Ettmetal Explosion	Aon Sheo (Death)	Acid	Poisoned Needle	Aimian
Jeskeri Cult Ritual	Bow & Arrow	Soulcasting	Hammer	Toxic Fungus
Sandling	Drowning	Burned at the Stake	Grandbow	Explosion
Cliff	Martial Arts	Mistwraith	The Bands of Mourning	Dueling Cane
Firesnap Lizards	Coins	Sword	Backbreaker Powder	Pistol
Parshendi	Obsidian Axe	Silver Knife	Dreok's Axe	Stone
Hemalurgic Spike	Koloss Blade	Enhanced Strength	Chasmfiend	Shardplate
Venomous Bite	Lifeless Soldier	Hemalurgic Chimera	Deathants	Air-powered Crossbow
Betrayal	Garotte	Poisoned Dart	Blood Loss	Lost Divine Breath
Surgebinding	Awakened Rope	Glass Dagger	Torture	Nightmaw
Booby Trap	Suffocation	Kandra Digestive Acids	Scarf	Duel
Whitespine	The Shaod	Fenweed Poison	Aon Daa (Power)	Lashing

For the clues, I'm having a tough time narrowing things down, so I've highlighted the things I think are most likely: (the ones found in the wilderness)

White Clothing	Jam & Bread	Book	Tonk	Ettmetal Cube
Dakhor Bone	Cremlings	Hemalurgic Earring	Water Vine	Sunglasses
Artifact	Trap Door	Purple Blood Droplets	Fancy Dress	Medallion
Crab Legs	Fruit Juice	Aon Tia Plate	Picture of a Flower	Cigar Case
Pot of Stew	Hoid’s flute	Pet Monkey	Ragged Cloak	Cracked Shalebark
Bright Green Hat	Tar-Lined Bag	Abstract Art	Metal Flakes	Hog
Forged Painting	Chull Dung	Spanreed	White Sand	Half-Eaten Pancakes
Saddle Strap	Crem	Moon Scepter	Artisan’s Script	Rotspren
Horneater Lager	Corroded Silver	Pet Lizard	Firemoss	Bullet Casings
Claw Marks	God Beyond Shrine	Make Up	Black Sphere	Tarachin Ball
Chouta	Portrait	Wine Bottle	Fashion Magazine	Bloodseal
Tools	Aon Kii	Soulcast Metal	Discarded Weapon	Forgery Seal
MaiPon Sticks	Mistcloak	Lucky Hat	Colorful Scarf	Empty Pouch
Red Flag	Aluminum Ingots	Hallandren Dyes	Death Rattle	Map
Scorch marks	Invitation	Words Inscribed in Steel	Child's Toy	Grey Patch
Religious Text	Hairpin	Lockpicks	Safehand Glove	Shu-Korath Pendant

Cause of Death	Location of Crime #3	Victim's Age	Hint on Corpse	Noticed by Bystander	Victim's Rank
Suffocation	Big City	Child	Head	Sudden sound	Divinity
Severe Injury	Small Town	Young Adult	Chest	Prolonged sound	Nobility
Loss of Blood	Road/Canal	Middle-Aged	Hand	Smell	Working Class
Supernatural	Wilderness	Elderly	Leg	Visual	Peasant
Poisoning/ Sickness	Fields	Ancient	Partial	Action	Slave
Accident	Sea/Ocean	Immortal	All-over	Nothing	None

 

[Archer Knight Radiant]

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

 

Spoiler

Dakhor Ritual	Buried Alive	Shardblade	Rathbore Monk	Blackbane Leaf
Dagger	Black Frayn	Nightblood	Deepwalker	Dehydration
Tompher Poison	Rope	Highstorm	Meekers	Fire
Steelrunning	Cut-away vines	Bloodsealing	Hook	Poisonous Sting
Ettmetal Explosion	Aon Sheo (Death)	Acid	Poisoned Needle	Aimian
Jeskeri Cult Ritual	Bow & Arrow	Soulcasting	Hammer	Toxic Fungus
Sandling	Drowning	Burned at the Stake	Grandbow	Explosion
Cliff	Martial Arts	Mistwraith	The Bands of Mourning	Dueling Cane
Firesnap Lizards	Coins	Sword	Backbreaker Powder	Pistol
Parshendi	Obsidian Axe	Silver Knife	Dreok's Axe	Stone
Hemalurgic Spike	Koloss Blade	Enhanced Strength	Chasmfiend	Shardplate
Venomous Bite	Lifeless Soldier	Hemalurgic Chimera	Deathants	Air-powered Crossbow
Betrayal	Garotte	Poisoned Dart	Blood Loss	Lost Divine Breath
Surgebinding	Awakened Rope	Glass Dagger	Torture	Nightmaw
Booby Trap	Suffocation	Kandra Digestive Acids	Scarf	Duel
Whitespine	The Shaod	Fenweed Poison	Aon Daa (Power)	Lashing

 

 

 Steelrunning - supernatural / Cliff - Accidental (same as Highstorm vibes) / Lifeless Soldier - supernatural / Glass Dagger - Loss of Blood / Awakened Rope - Suffocation / Acid, Digestive Acids - Poison / Highstorm - Accident / Burned at the Stake - Town Square / Enhanced Strength - supernatural / Deepwalker - Ocean / Bands - supernatural / Torture - prolonged sound 

Cremlings+Dagger would be an interesting combo.