Allomancy sets?

[PinkPlasma]

So ima just dig right in with my theory and yall can give your thoughts. I might be grasping a little or clinging onto vague ideas but I like the theory so I might as well post it.

Base allomancy comes in a set of 16 with subsets; Push, Pull, Internal, External, physical, mental, temporal, and enhancement. pretty basic allomancy knowledge, right? but we also know that every god metal can make their OWN allomantic sets, with atium alloys as our proof. the 11th metal (gold and atium) and the atium mistborn burn (atium and electrum). now usually there wouldn't be much for me to build off after that. each god metal is another set of 16, how could we possibly figure out what each power will do without knowing something like the subject of the powers, like physical in the base set. except we DO know one of the subsets for ruin's set of allomancy. and its the same as the base set. in fact the powers are nearly identical, except for one key difference. they have switched from internal, to external. gold is an internal metal, so is electrum. but their atium alloy counterparts aren't. the 11th metal lets you see other peoples past(or potential future still not sure) selves. but gold lets you see your own past/potential futrue self. nearly identical powers, except for the fact that the subset has flipped. so here is the theory. are ALL the allomantic powers in ruin's allomancy, simply the same power with a subset flipped? how would that translate into powers like tin, or pewter? or duralumin? we already have a power that essentialy works the same as duralumin, except it is focused externally. its already a thing in base allomancy. is it simply a fluke? a coincidence? or, does this perhaps work like the power overlaps in the knight's Radiant orders? they share power types across certain orders. are we maybe just seeing something similar to that? do ruin and preservation simply share an allomantic subset, changed slightly to fit them? or is it even less than that, just sharing these two powers, used in separate ways, because i cannot fathom how you can use time bubbles internally. or is it something else yet again? does ruin have external powers, and then a different subset, that isnt internal at all? 

Sorry, I know thats a lot more question than theory, but Its been scratching in my head for a while.

[alder24]

I'm scratching my head right now.  

So you are proposing that Atium alloys switch internal and external effects of metals? So would it mean that zinc/brass would allow you to manipulate only your emotions? Enhancement metals would just switch places and do the same? But as you point out, what does tin/pewter as an external metal would do? Or internal steel/iron? Internal speed bubbles might just manipulate your perception of time, without any bubbles or something.

But those are just Atium alloys. What Lerasium alloys would do (for Mistborn, granting allomancy is not the primary effect of Lerasium), and how would that fit with your theory? What Raysium alloys would do? I'm getting ahead of this, but there aren't many switches like internal/external that can be done in a table as there are god metals.

 

But that is a very interesting theory.

[PinkPlasma]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

I'm scratching my head right now.  

So you are proposing that Atium alloys switch internal and external effects of metals? So would it mean that zinc/brass would allow you to manipulate only your emotions? Enhancement metals would just switch places and do the same? But as you point out, what does tin/pewter as an external metal would do? Or internal steel/iron? Internal speed bubbles might just manipulate your perception of time, without any bubbles or something.

But those are just Atium alloys. What Lerasium alloys would do (for Mistborn, granting allomancy is not the primary effect of Lerasium), and how would that fit with your theory? What Raysium alloys would do? I'm getting ahead of this, but there aren't many switches like internal/external that can be done in a table as there are god metals.

 

But that is a very interesting theory.

yea that was the thought. its the only real connection ive been able to make at predicting what the god metal alloy sets would do, but like you pointed out it has a ton of holes. it just seemed so odd that those 4 powers do the same things yk?  maybe it's just ruin, because it is a sort of primal opposite of preservation. or maybe its nothing! this stuff is a little wacky for me because ik there were parts of this that had to be retconned to fit, specifically atium they burn in the books. so it might just be that atium is the way it is because that was the only way he could fix it. It was just something that popped out to me in one of my rereads.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 3/8/2023 at 10:23 AM, PinkPlasma said:

So ima just dig right in with my theory and yall can give your thoughts. I might be grasping a little or clinging onto vague ideas but I like the theory so I might as well post it.

Base allomancy comes in a set of 16 with subsets; Push, Pull, Internal, External, physical, mental, temporal, and enhancement. pretty basic allomancy knowledge, right? but we also know that every god metal can make their OWN allomantic sets, with atium alloys as our proof. the 11th metal (gold and atium) and the atium mistborn burn (atium and electrum). now usually there wouldn't be much for me to build off after that. each god metal is another set of 16, how could we possibly figure out what each power will do without knowing something like the subject of the powers, like physical in the base set. except we DO know one of the subsets for ruin's set of allomancy. and its the same as the base set. in fact the powers are nearly identical, except for one key difference. they have switched from internal, to external. gold is an internal metal, so is electrum. but their atium alloy counterparts aren't. the 11th metal lets you see other peoples past(or potential future still not sure) selves. but gold lets you see your own past/potential futrue self. nearly identical powers, except for the fact that the subset has flipped. so here is the theory. are ALL the allomantic powers in ruin's allomancy, simply the same power with a subset flipped? how would that translate into powers like tin, or pewter? or duralumin? we already have a power that essentialy works the same as duralumin, except it is focused externally. its already a thing in base allomancy. is it simply a fluke? a coincidence? or, does this perhaps work like the power overlaps in the knight's Radiant orders? they share power types across certain orders. are we maybe just seeing something similar to that? do ruin and preservation simply share an allomantic subset, changed slightly to fit them? or is it even less than that, just sharing these two powers, used in separate ways, because i cannot fathom how you can use time bubbles internally. or is it something else yet again? does ruin have external powers, and then a different subset, that isnt internal at all? 

Sorry, I know thats a lot more question than theory, but Its been scratching in my head for a while.

We know that all of the atium alloys have temporal and mental effects, and I have a theory on that, though not one I've posted.

In the annotations, Brandon implies that the Lerasium bead is part of a fourth magic system. Shardmetals.

But it operates incredibly similarly to allomancy.
So, the effect of the alloys (There are 17+ possible alloys of atium and electrum, but less than infinity. Part of me wants to believe that Brandon was wiggling out of this with actual alloys and the fact there is a limited amount of investiture/matter/energy, so anywhere from one atom to the rest of the matter/energy/investiture used for ratios work.) are based on the interactions between the metals.

We know that gold and electrum look into the spiritual realm to show you visions of yourself.
We think that P-atium shows an expansive vision of the spiritual realm.
We know most visions that come from the spiritual realm are filtered through the cognitive.
P-Atium, if it does what we think, is probably filtered through the cognitive, so it touches the cognitive and spiritual realms. All alloys have cognitive or spiritual effects.

Enhanced spiritual Past would show you other's past, those connected to you via location. Same with Enhanced spiritual future.

I made this whole argument for Malatium storing other emotions before I remembered that Malatium is a gold alloy, not an electrum alloy, that's nalatium. You can read it if you want.

Spoiler

We know that F-gold stores health (think hit points, not regeneration), and nalatium stores age (in years). F-Gold is at least physical, but I think it is actually the 3 mix (I think 3 of the hybrid are 2 mixes with 1 3mix), so if you remove the physical and mental health, and then enhance it to be not health, then what would it be? Your spiritweb consists of sDNA and Connections, and the sDNA is taken care of by Gold. So it has to be connection, but diffrent than Durilium. Durilium stores fluctuating connection, those that form, change strength, break. Durilium stores the strength and ability to form fluctuation connections, Nalatium stores the strength of constant connections. As far as I know, connection to your birth is the only constant connection, though I could see certain connections to shards could be.

Electrum stores determination, so I suspect that Malatium stores another m

 

[PinkPlasma]

On 3/9/2023 at 5:22 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

We know that all of the atium alloys have temporal and mental effects, and I have a theory on that, though not one I've posted.

In the annotations, Brandon implies that the Lerasium bead is part of a fourth magic system. Shardmetals.

But it operates incredibly similarly to allomancy.
So, the effect of the alloys (There are 17+ possible alloys of atium and electrum, but less than infinity. Part of me wants to believe that Brandon was wiggling out of this with actual alloys and the fact there is a limited amount of investiture/matter/energy, so anywhere from one atom to the rest of the matter/energy/investiture used for ratios work.) are based on the interactions between the metals.

We know that gold and electrum look into the spiritual realm to show you visions of yourself.
We think that P-atium shows an expansive vision of the spiritual realm.
We know most visions that come from the spiritual realm are filtered through the cognitive.
P-Atium, if it does what we think, is probably filtered through the cognitive, so it touches the cognitive and spiritual realms. All alloys have cognitive or spiritual effects.

Enhanced spiritual Past would show you other's past, those connected to you via location. Same with Enhanced spiritual future.

I made this whole argument for Malatium storing other emotions before I remembered that Malatium is a gold alloy, not an electrum alloy, that's nalatium. You can read it if you want.

  Reveal hidden contents

We know that F-gold stores health (think hit points, not regeneration), and nalatium stores age (in years). F-Gold is at least physical, but I think it is actually the 3 mix (I think 3 of the hybrid are 2 mixes with 1 3mix), so if you remove the physical and mental health, and then enhance it to be not health, then what would it be? Your spiritweb consists of sDNA and Connections, and the sDNA is taken care of by Gold. So it has to be connection, but diffrent than Durilium. Durilium stores fluctuating connection, those that form, change strength, break. Durilium stores the strength and ability to form fluctuation connections, Nalatium stores the strength of constant connections. As far as I know, connection to your birth is the only constant connection, though I could see certain connections to shards could be.

Electrum stores determination, so I suspect that Malatium stores another m

 

do we have confirmation that all atium alloys will do this, or is it just from what we have seen? i assumed that we were just seeing a small peice of the potential alloys from atium, and also assumed that there would only be 16 allomantic alloys. i can see that idea for pure atium having that effect based on what it's alloys effects have been, but i thought the temporal parts of that were more based on the fact that they were alloyed with metals that already gave temporal effects. it would be awfuly strange for all of ruins allomantic related abilities to be so time based, when the other magic systems surrounding him are, well, ruin based. hemolurgy and furochemy both involve ruin in some way or another, but time really doesn't have much to do with that. granted this is preservations magic system, but i still sort of assumed that you would be using ruins power by burning his metals, pulling investiture from him and not preservation, hence providing abilities that are more ruin themed. both of those alloys do burn incredibly fast, which fits ruin, but beyond that it would feel strange for them all to follow a time theme, at least to me.

[gremlin303]

This topic was discussed recently on r/Cosmere and I’ve given it a lot of thought.

It’s not about reversing internal/external. It’s about changing the target of the Allomancy so that it’s almost as if they are burning the metal.

So we know what gold and electrum do, they make you see another’s future/past instead of your own.

For steel/iron - the target acts as the anchor for pushing/pulling metal, with the blue lines spreading out from them instead.

Bendalloy/cadmium - would create time bubbles around the target instead of you.

Aluminium/Duralumin - would drain/boost the target’s metal reserves from a distance.

Copper would create a coppercloud around the target and perhaps bronze would show you Allomancy being burned near the target (not sure about this one).

Tin/pewter - would allow you to enhance the strength/senses of the target (or perhaps multiple targets if you want to get fun with it?)

Zinc/brass - not too sure about this but perhaps it could create a cloud of emotional soothing/rioting around the target?

Nicrosil/chromium - this is the one I’m least sure of, but perhaps it wipes/boosts the reserves of anyone touching the target? Not super useful beyond specific circumstances but they can’t all be with something like this.

Obviously the main issue with this is Pure Atium’s ability to see an extensive vision of the future, which obviously relates closely to Malatium and Nalatium’s effects, but not all these others. But that’s theorising for you. 

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 3/10/2023 at 4:19 PM, PinkPlasma said:

do we have confirmation that all atium alloys will do this, or is it just from what we have seen? i assumed that we were just seeing a small peice of the potential alloys from atium, and also assumed that there would only be 16 allomantic alloys. i can see that idea for pure atium having that effect based on what it's alloys effects have been, but i thought the temporal parts of that were more based on the fact that they were alloyed with metals that already gave temporal effects. it would be awfuly strange for all of ruins allomantic related abilities to be so time based, when the other magic systems surrounding him are, well, ruin based. hemolurgy and furochemy both involve ruin in some way or another, but time really doesn't have much to do with that. granted this is preservations magic system, but i still sort of assumed that you would be using ruins power by burning his metals, pulling investiture from him and not preservation, hence providing abilities that are more ruin themed. both of those alloys do burn incredibly fast, which fits ruin, but beyond that it would feel strange for them all to follow a time theme, at least to me.

It's on the allomancy poster. It's in world, so subject to be at fault, but I believe we have WoBs confirming this. And the speed at which it burns is in part due to the fact the metal is fueling the magic, rather than being a conduit for the SR to fuel it.

On 3/14/2023 at 1:56 PM, gremlin303 said:

This topic was discussed recently on r/Cosmere and I’ve given it a lot of thought.

It’s not about reversing internal/external. It’s about changing the target of the Allomancy so that it’s almost as if they are burning the metal.

So we know what gold and electrum do, they make you see another’s future/past instead of your own.

For steel/iron - the target acts as the anchor for pushing/pulling metal, with the blue lines spreading out from them instead.

Bendalloy/cadmium - would create time bubbles around the target instead of you.

Aluminium/Duralumin - would drain/boost the target’s metal reserves from a distance.

Copper would create a coppercloud around the target and perhaps bronze would show you Allomancy being burned near the target (not sure about this one).

Tin/pewter - would allow you to enhance the strength/senses of the target (or perhaps multiple targets if you want to get fun with it?)

Zinc/brass - not too sure about this but perhaps it could create a cloud of emotional soothing/rioting around the target?

Nicrosil/chromium - this is the one I’m least sure of, but perhaps it wipes/boosts the reserves of anyone touching the target? Not super useful beyond specific circumstances but they can’t all be with something like this.

Obviously the main issue with this is Pure Atium’s ability to see an extensive vision of the future, which obviously relates closely to Malatium and Nalatium’s effects, but not all these others. But that’s theorising for you. 

I doubt all of these, for the reasons mentioned above in this and my above post.

[in Truth,watcher of tv]

@gremlin303 I like this as the best guess for the atium alloys. I have a few suggestions:

Nicrosil/chromium might have an aoe like they do in allomantic grenades

Copper might protect others from emotional allomancy as well as being at a distance

Bronze might detect metal in general or maybe magically active metals, like some ones reserves/minds/spikes

Zinc and brass might become telepathic, zinc hearing and brass speaking to others’ minds

[bmcclure7]

On 3/8/2023 at 0:23 PM, PinkPlasma said:

So ima just dig right in with my theory and yall can give your thoughts. I might be grasping a little or clinging onto vague ideas but I like the theory so I might as well post it.

Base allomancy comes in a set of 16 with subsets; Push, Pull, Internal, External, physical, mental, temporal, and enhancement. pretty basic allomancy knowledge, right? but we also know that every god metal can make their OWN allomantic sets, with atium alloys as our proof. the 11th metal (gold and atium) and the atium mistborn burn (atium and electrum). now usually there wouldn't be much for me to build off after that. each god metal is another set of 16, how could we possibly figure out what each power will do without knowing something like the subject of the powers, like physical in the base set. except we DO know one of the subsets for ruin's set of allomancy. and its the same as the base set. in fact the powers are nearly identical, except for one key difference. they have switched from internal, to external. gold is an internal metal, so is electrum. but their atium alloy counterparts aren't. the 11th metal lets you see other peoples past(or potential future still not sure) selves. but gold lets you see your own past/potential futrue self. nearly identical powers, except for the fact that the subset has flipped. so here is the theory. are ALL the allomantic powers in ruin's allomancy, simply the same power with a subset flipped? how would that translate into powers like tin, or pewter? or duralumin? we already have a power that essentialy works the same as duralumin, except it is focused externally. its already a thing in base allomancy. is it simply a fluke? a coincidence? or, does this perhaps work like the power overlaps in the knight's Radiant orders? they share power types across certain orders. are we maybe just seeing something similar to that? do ruin and preservation simply share an allomantic subset, changed slightly to fit them? or is it even less than that, just sharing these two powers, used in separate ways, because i cannot fathom how you can use time bubbles internally. or is it something else yet again? does ruin have external powers, and then a different subset, that isnt internal at all? 

Sorry, I know thats a lot more question than theory, but Its been scratching in my head for a while.

 Something I never thought of before but I like it.

 

the possibilities

 You could soothe your own emotions.  Enhance someone else with pewter, Instead of Pushing or pulling metal away from you,You can make metal Push or pull on things. 

Are 2 alomancy enhancement metals  Would probably just trade places.

 

Not sure how the temporal medals would change. Perhaps you'd put the bubble around someone else around something else.

 

 

 

[alder24]

10 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

Copper might protect others from emotional allomancy as well as being at a distance

This can already be done by normal Smokers, they just aren't skilled enough with copper to discover it.

Spoiler

Questioner

Also speaking of continutiy...

Brandon Sanderson

Uh oh. 

Questioner

This is a very very minor spoiler. It's just a statement that was made in Alloy of Law, that Smokers could...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah, that was just a typo

Questioner

Is that going to change things?

Brandon Sanderson

Wait, go ahead and say it.

Questioner

Can Copperclouds shield others' emotions?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh okay. Did we put that in Alloy of Law in the Ars Arcanum? Is that where you read it?

Questioner

I forget. I don't remember where it is.

Brandon Sanderson

I believe it’s in the Ars Arcanum, which in Alloy of Law was put together by Peter. And that’s mostly a mistake, though the thing is the Role Playing Game came to me and said “Is it feasible that this could happen?” And I said “It’s perhaps feasible, but only a very rare individual could make this work if they knew exactly what they were doing.” And so I said “Yeah, go ahead, but make it a power that someone really has to know what they’re doing to make it work.” And so they put it in, and so Peter assumed that it was canon, that anyone can do it, but that’s not what I intended.

Questioner

So would it be easier to say that somebody discovered they could do it and now they are training copperclouds to do it?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that it is viable that someone could figure it out, but it would be a very difficult thing to train, and it is not a common Coppercloud—A common Coppercloud isn’t going to be able to be doing it, and almost no Mistborn will ever be capable of doing it, they just don’t focus on that metal enough to learn it. Of course, there aren’t Mistborn around anymore. So it is a possible power, it is plausible, but it is not the standard. Perhaps I will allow it to become the standard eventually, but it’s not right now. It would be much easier to wear a tinfoil hat. (laughter) Aluminum, aluminum. Which does work.

West Jordan signing (Dec. 15, 2011)

 

EDIT: 

I found an interesting WoB about some Atium alloys:

Spoiler

Dirigible

In Secret History, we see orbs of Connection that Kelsier uses, and it draws lines between him and other objects. If Vin were to, in the Well of Ascension era, use that orb and also pull the mists in, would she be able to steelpush or ironpull on non-metal objects?

Brandon Sanderson

There are ways to steelpush on non-metal objects, but that's not the method.

Dirigible

Atium alloy?

Brandon Sanderson

What do you mean by atium alloy?

Dirigible

Atium-steel alloy, or atium-iron?

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm, we're straying into RAFO territory. Let's just say that it is possible.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by alder24

[IlstrawberrySeed]

That is partially because he hasn't decided on all of the atium alloys effects such that he cannot change them and partially because there are over 16 and less than infitnite atium - base alloys. I personally think that was brandon being sneeky and they have the same effects as varying pewter alloys, as there is limited axions there are limited alloys, but it could be over 16 different effects.

[cobaltking360]

On 08/03/2023 at 1:47 PM, alder24 said:

Internal speed bubbles might just manipulate your perception of time, without any bubbles or something.

 

What the time bubbles could do is, the burner could choose where the centre of the time bubble is, making cadmium much more useful, working almost like a stasis bubble around someone. 

[PinkPlasma]

On 3/21/2023 at 1:14 AM, bmcclure7 said:

 Something I never thought of before but I like it.

 

the possibilities

 You could soothe your own emotions.  Enhance someone else with pewter, Instead of Pushing or pulling metal away from you,You can make metal Push or pull on things. 

Are 2 alomancy enhancement metals  Would probably just trade places.

 

Not sure how the temporal medals would change. Perhaps you'd put the bubble around someone else around something else.

 

 

 

well the bubbles are already external. the best I could guess is something like F-speed, but that doesn't even make too much sense.

[bmcclure7]

20 hours ago, PinkPlasma said:

well the bubbles are already external. the best I could guess is something like F-speed, but that doesn't even make too much sense.

 Maybe more like the effect of time your body. 

 Have a broken leg, put in a cast  Burn some metal and skip 6 months worth of healing. 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by bmcclure7

[gremlin303]

On 21/03/2023 at 0:34 PM, alder24 said:

This can already be done by normal Smokers, they just aren't skilled enough with copper to discover it.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Also speaking of continutiy...

Brandon Sanderson

Uh oh. 

Questioner

This is a very very minor spoiler. It's just a statement that was made in Alloy of Law, that Smokers could...

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah, that was just a typo

Questioner

Is that going to change things?

Brandon Sanderson

Wait, go ahead and say it.

Questioner

Can Copperclouds shield others' emotions?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh okay. Did we put that in Alloy of Law in the Ars Arcanum? Is that where you read it?

Questioner

I forget. I don't remember where it is.

Brandon Sanderson

I believe it’s in the Ars Arcanum, which in Alloy of Law was put together by Peter. And that’s mostly a mistake, though the thing is the Role Playing Game came to me and said “Is it feasible that this could happen?” And I said “It’s perhaps feasible, but only a very rare individual could make this work if they knew exactly what they were doing.” And so I said “Yeah, go ahead, but make it a power that someone really has to know what they’re doing to make it work.” And so they put it in, and so Peter assumed that it was canon, that anyone can do it, but that’s not what I intended.

Questioner

So would it be easier to say that somebody discovered they could do it and now they are training copperclouds to do it?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that it is viable that someone could figure it out, but it would be a very difficult thing to train, and it is not a common Coppercloud—A common Coppercloud isn’t going to be able to be doing it, and almost no Mistborn will ever be capable of doing it, they just don’t focus on that metal enough to learn it. Of course, there aren’t Mistborn around anymore. So it is a possible power, it is plausible, but it is not the standard. Perhaps I will allow it to become the standard eventually, but it’s not right now. It would be much easier to wear a tinfoil hat. (laughter) Aluminum, aluminum. Which does work.

West Jordan signing (Dec. 15, 2011)

 

EDIT: 

I found an interesting WoB about some Atium alloys:

  Hide contents

Dirigible

In Secret History, we see orbs of Connection that Kelsier uses, and it draws lines between him and other objects. If Vin were to, in the Well of Ascension era, use that orb and also pull the mists in, would she be able to steelpush or ironpull on non-metal objects?

Brandon Sanderson

There are ways to steelpush on non-metal objects, but that's not the method.

Dirigible

Atium alloy?

Brandon Sanderson

What do you mean by atium alloy?

Dirigible

Atium-steel alloy, or atium-iron?

Brandon Sanderson

Hmm, we're straying into RAFO territory. Let's just say that it is possible.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

This WoB likely relates to the ability we see Wax use where he sees the investiture in everything as if they are metal. I can’t remember how he does this, maybe the Bands? It’s probably through this ability that Allomancers can push/pull non-metal objects 

[alder24]

3 hours ago, gremlin303 said:

This WoB likely relates to the ability we see Wax use where he sees the investiture in everything as if they are metal. I can’t remember how he does this, maybe the Bands? It’s probably through this ability that Allomancers can push/pull non-metal objects 

That's steelsight, that's how Kelsier and Inquisitors see, and this is something all Iron/Steel Allomancers can learn to do. So that's not Atium-iron/steel alloys or Ire orb. The Bands were just so invested and granted him such strong Allomantic powers, that he could see to the very Axi of the world, see investiture all around him. But the ability to push on non-metal objects maybe could be achieved by the Bands (because like Wax said, everything is made out of the same stuff, and Wax could see it, and he had enormous power, however I still doubt Bands would be that powerful).

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone's bodies and in the objects around them.

The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody–at least, nobody the heroes know–is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.

And he chose not to share it.

The Well of Ascension Annotations (Nov. 11, 2007)

And here is the WoB talking about steelsight moving into direction of detecting electromagnetic forces and Strong Forces:

Spoiler

Argent

Mechanically speaking, how does steelsight work? The scientific definition of "metal" gets a little murky in the middle of the periodic table-

Brandon Sanderson

It does.

Argent

-and we see that powerful enough Allomancers can see more than just metals.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Argent

Are Connection and perception significantly involved here?

Brandon Sanderson

To an extent, but the science of it also is. I feel like the stronger steelsight is getting, the more it is detecting things like electromagnetic bonds and even, you know, the strong and weak force and some of these sorts of things that is just in everything, right? And I do think that in strongest applications, Allomancy is going to be moving beyond metals and moving toward things like fundamental forces. So there you go.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

So strong Allomancy could affect non-metals, and that's likely what he had in mind when he said "There are ways to steelpush on non-metal objects, but that's not the method."

[gremlin303]

On 24/03/2023 at 7:35 PM, alder24 said:

That's steelsight, that's how Kelsier and Inquisitors see, and this is something all Iron/Steel Allomancers can learn to do. So that's not Atium-iron/steel alloys or Ire orb. The Bands were just so invested and granted him such strong Allomantic powers, that he could see to the very Axi of the world, see investiture all around him. But the ability to push on non-metal objects maybe could be achieved by the Bands (because like Wax said, everything is made out of the same stuff, and Wax could see it, and he had enormous power, however I still doubt Bands would be that powerful).

  Hide contents

Brandon Sanderson

By the way, you probably remember form book one the way that Inquisitors see. They have such a subtle touch with Steel and Iron, and their lines, that they can see via the trace metals in everyone's bodies and in the objects around them.

The thing is, any Allomancer with access to iron or steel could learn to do this. Some have figured it out, in the past, but in current times, nobody–at least, nobody the heroes know–is aware of this. Except, of course, for Marsh.

And he chose not to share it.

The Well of Ascension Annotations (Nov. 11, 2007)

And here is the WoB talking about steelsight moving into direction of detecting electromagnetic forces and Strong Forces:

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Argent

Mechanically speaking, how does steelsight work? The scientific definition of "metal" gets a little murky in the middle of the periodic table-

Brandon Sanderson

It does.

Argent

-and we see that powerful enough Allomancers can see more than just metals.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Argent

Are Connection and perception significantly involved here?

Brandon Sanderson

To an extent, but the science of it also is. I feel like the stronger steelsight is getting, the more it is detecting things like electromagnetic bonds and even, you know, the strong and weak force and some of these sorts of things that is just in everything, right? And I do think that in strongest applications, Allomancy is going to be moving beyond metals and moving toward things like fundamental forces. So there you go.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

So strong Allomancy could affect non-metals, and that's likely what he had in mind when he said "There are ways to steelpush on non-metal objects, but that's not the method."

Yep. Thanks for saying what I said but longer.