Trusk'our Posted March 3, 2023 Report Share Posted March 3, 2023 In TLM we see that Trellium used Hemalurgically protects you from being controlled (at least from Harmony), even if you would have enough spikes to make you vulnerable to such actions. But in SoS, Bleeder had a Trellium spike, but was still susceptible to being controlled by Harmony when Wax shot her with a second Hemalurgic spike. I'm a bit confused. Does Trellium's protection just not work on Kandra for some reason, or was it because she needed more Trellium to shield from Harmony since she was a Kandra maybe? I'm open to suggestions, if anyone has any. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That1Cellist Posted March 3, 2023 Report Share Posted March 3, 2023 46 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: In TLM we see that Trellium used Hemalurgically protects you from being controlled (at least from Harmony), even if you would have enough spikes to make you vulnerable to such actions. But in SoS, Bleeder had a Trellium spike, but was still susceptible to being controlled by Harmony when Wax shot her with a second Hemalurgic spike. I'm a bit confused. Does Trellium's protection just not work on Kandra for some reason, or was it because she needed more Trellium to shield from Harmony since she was a Kandra maybe? I'm open to suggestions, if anyone has any. I don't think we have enough information to really know what's going on with that. Thank you for bringing this up though, as it's something I hadn't thought about. I would lean towards the kandra being just less resistant to Harmony's influence in general as an answer to this. I would like to point out that whatever kind of spiritweb kandra have was certainly very messed up at that point in Bleeder. That would open her up to Harmony's influence. Additionally, Harmony knows where she is in that moment, which would probably make it easier for him to try and take over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted March 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, That1Cellist said: Additionally, Harmony knows where she is in that moment, which would probably make it easier for him to try and take over. Hmmmm. That makes me wonder if the reason Harmony couldn't control Set members with Trellium spikes wasn't because they were immune to his control, but if he just couldn't sense them at the time. Which makes Trellium protection for Hemalurgic constructs less of a "shield" and more of a "smokescreen". And that would explain Bleeder's circumstances. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlstrawberrySeed Posted March 3, 2023 Report Share Posted March 3, 2023 It could be more as a smokescreen, but it also could have to do with kandra's suceptibility. Sazed made koloss true breeding, but made kanda immune to Emo-Allomancy. Presumably, he couldn't simply remove the weakness, but had to move the hole - and naturally that would move to him, since he has no intention of using it. Meanwhile, for human constructs, he didn't change anything, so 4 spikes were needed before for absolute control, and trellium seems not to count towards that. Kandra only need 1 spike for that now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted March 4, 2023 Report Share Posted March 4, 2023 I think too many spikes will still leave them susceptible to hemalurgic control, and there is also a limit of how many spikes can grant powers since Ruin and Preservation are Harmony. In BoM Telsin and Edwarn had only 3 spikes in them, I can't remember how many she had in TLM. But Dumad had 5 powers, one of them was most likely natural, so he had only 4 spikes, which gives Harmony ability to control, but Trellium hides them from him. That's all we know, Trellium hides, because Harmony didn't knew that metal, and couldn't find them. But Kandra are different. They aren't humans, they are hemalurgic constructs, they exist because of Hemalurgy. They need 2 spikes to function properly, but that doesn't leave opening too big to fully take control over them - just look in HoA, despite Ruin taking control of them, they had enough freedom to take away their spikes (I think TenSoon had 4 spikes at this moment, and was the most affected by Ruin's control? Can't remember that now). Spoiler Argent Was Harmony unable to find [Bleeder] because the spike was made of this metal? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. The spike was what prevented him from being able to find her. Argent It wasn't an ability granted by the spike. Brandon Sanderson No. Argent It was just the material. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Spoiler Questioner I wanted to ask about Paalm’s spike. Is it that one specifically that allowed her to hide from Harmony or would it happen with any sort of...? Brandon Sanderson It was because she was not using one out of any metal that he knew, was a big part of it. She couldn't have done that with any spike. Taking one out helped a bit, but a non-Harmony spike it had to be… What you’re seeing there is a weird hack of the magic system intentionally that was built to do that. Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underwater_Worldhopper Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 On 03/03/2023 at 2:48 PM, Trusk'our said: In TLM we see that Trellium used Hemalurgically protects you from being controlled (at least from Harmony), even if you would have enough spikes to make you vulnerable to such actions. But in SoS, Bleeder had a Trellium spike, but was still susceptible to being controlled by Harmony when Wax shot her with a second Hemalurgic spike. I'm a bit confused. Does Trellium's protection just not work on Kandra for some reason, or was it because she needed more Trellium to shield from Harmony since she was a Kandra maybe? I'm open to suggestions, if anyone has any. The Kandra have a Contract with Harmony that let's him take control of them if they break it, right? And we know that breaking official contracts can make holes in the Shards that can leave them susceptible to attack, so maybe a creature that breaks a contract with a Shard becomes open to their influence in a more dramatic way, and only the Trellium and lack of 2 spikes kept Harmony from immediately taking control? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted April 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said: The Kandra have a Contract with Harmony that let's him take control of them if they break it, right? And we know that breaking official contracts can make holes in the Shards that can leave them susceptible to attack, so maybe a creature that breaks a contract with a Shard becomes open to their influence in a more dramatic way, and only the Trellium and lack of 2 spikes kept Harmony from immediately taking control? That reasoning seems pretty sound. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkenbotanist Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Also could be that in the meantime, they've gotten better at the trellium technique, bind point, how to charge the spike, etc. Among all the other reasons above 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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