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Investiture Leakage


CMac716

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Overlord Jebus

So you've previously described gemhearts as Investiture leaking into the Physical Realm in a similar kind of process to atium. Now atium had a way of-- the Investiture used in the creation of it-- of returning back to the kind of background pool of Investiture on Scadrial. Is there a way of the Investiture used in the creation of gemhearts to return to the Roshar Investiture pool?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Overlord Jebus

There is? Have we had any hints of it at all?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8610

 

Given this WoB, would that imply that gemhearts are also a form of godmetal? The fact that soulcasters can't make them might be further evidence for this. 

 

 

 

 

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There is a problem, investiture resists investiture. Investing a god metal with Stormlight would be extremely hard to do, and would possibly require a lot of Stormlight. It would be like trying to Awaken a Shardblade

Spoiler

Questioner

Can you awaken a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Can you Awaken a Shardblade? A Shardblade would already be defined as Awakened, by the magic systems.

Questioner

And what about the Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

Plate would already be defined as probably too heavily Invested to Awaken because it already is.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

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3 hours ago, alder24 said:

There is a problem, investiture resists investiture. Investing a god metal with Stormlight would be extremely hard to do, and would possibly require a lot of Stormlight. It would be like trying to Awaken a Shardblade

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Can you awaken a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Can you Awaken a Shardblade? A Shardblade would already be defined as Awakened, by the magic systems.

Questioner

And what about the Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

Plate would already be defined as probably too heavily Invested to Awaken because it already is.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

This is true. My theory is differing behaviors of investiture in physical form depending on its state of matter. For example, we have Preservation. A Shard with two separate forms of physical investiture. Larasium and the Mists. Lerasium, solid Preservation, grants allomancy. The Mists, liquid Preservation, instead fuels allomancy.

I believe the gemhearts are a third form, crystalline, which traps the gaseous form that raw investiture typically comes in.

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31 minutes ago, CMac716 said:

This is true. My theory is differing behaviors of investiture in physical form depending on its state of matter. For example, we have Preservation. A Shard with two separate forms of physical investiture. Larasium and the Mists. Lerasium, solid Preservation, grants allomancy. The Mists, liquid Preservation, instead fuels allomancy.

I believe the gemhearts are a third form, crystalline, which traps the gaseous form that raw investiture typically comes in.

There are 3 forms of investiture - first is solid form - god metal, then liquid form - Well of Ascension for example, and lastly gaseous form - Mists. While each has a bit different effects, you can use them all in the same way - like Atium is used as a fuel for allomancy (only Atium burning), the same way Mists are by Vin and Well too. You can even use god metals to Ascend, the same way Well was used, or more accurate, Mists:

Spoiler

Douglas

What about a lerasium savant? Or would that require so much lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, this is what Ascension is.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

Your idea doesn't resolve the problem of investiture resisting investiture. Breath can be put into every object, it doesn't need to be a god metal, it mustn't be a god metal.

Lerasium granting allomancy isn't also the main effect of burning this metal. Someone who knows what should be done, would use it in a different way: 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Eight

Preservation's Power

All right, so maybe I lied about there only being three magic systems in this book. It comes down to how you term the powers of Preservation and Ruin, who kind of blanket the entire system. There are a lot of things going on here, and—well, the truth is I don't want to mention all of them, for fear of spoiling future books. However, I'll give you a few rules to apply.

First, to these forces, energy and mass are the same thing. So, their power can take physical shape—as Preservation's did in the bead of metal Elend ate. Second, there is a bit of Preservation inside of all the people—and it's this that allows the people to perform Allomancy. It needs to be awakened and stirred to be of use, but when it is, a proper metal can draw forth more of Preservation's power. It's like the metal attunes the bit within the person, allowing it to act as a catalyst to grab more power.

Allomancy is not fueled by metal; it is fueled by Preservation. The metal is the means by which a person can access that fuel, however. If there were another way to access it, then the metal wouldn't be needed.

Preservation's touch on people differs. Some have more, some have less. This doesn't make them better or worse people—indeed, some most touched by Preservation have been among the worst people in the world. As Ruin later points out, there is a difference between being evil and being destructive.

Regardless, if a person can get more Preservation into them, they become better Allomancers. Hence Elend becoming a Mistborn. Like all people, he had the potential within him—it was just too small of a potential to be awakened through normal means. That little jolt of Preservation's body, however, expanded and awakened his Allomancy.

As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal did. It wasn't the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Nov. 12, 2009)

 

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4 hours ago, alder24 said:

There is a problem, investiture resists investiture. Investing a god metal with Stormlight would be extremely hard to do, and would possibly require a lot of Stormlight. It would be like trying to Awaken a Shardblade

  Hide contents

Questioner

Can you awaken a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Can you Awaken a Shardblade? A Shardblade would already be defined as Awakened, by the magic systems.

Questioner

And what about the Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

Plate would already be defined as probably too heavily Invested to Awaken because it already is.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

 

Counterpoint: Odium's God metal conducts Investiture, even sucks it in. Nightblood sucks in Investiture from all 3 Realms.

Your points apply to someone "forcing" Investiture into an already Invested object. It doesn't preclude an Invested object using outside Investiture for its purpose. A gemheart is used to store Cognitive entities that the Physical beings use as conduits for Investiture and abilities. There's no reason that Cultivation's god metal can't perform this purpose because it's Invested.

 

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3 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

Counterpoint: Odium's God metal conducts Investiture, even sucks it in. Nightblood sucks in Investiture from all 3 Realms.

That's a good counter argument with Raysium . But Nightblood isn't god metal and it operates on a corrupted investiture. Investiture however doesn't stay in Raysium.

5 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

There's no reason that Cultivation's god metal can't perform this purpose because it's Invested.

Sprens Shardblades are made out of Cultivation's god metal, they don't hold stormlight.

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I assumed each variation of spren, as well as the gemstones, were mixes of both honor and cultivation investiture to varying degrees, with a pure form of each as well. Which would basically make them all alloys of the two in metallurgical terms

Pure cultivation gems could be the Emeralds, which is why they're used to grow food, for example.

The crystalline matrix could change how the investiture reacts or can be used, similar to fabrial structures. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Edgedancer shardblades (cultivationspren) are either Cultivation's god metal or pretty close.

Gemhearts are actual real-life gem types (emeralds, heliodors, and so on) not god metals. The process they're produced.by seems to involve Investiture (though they're also made on the Physical level from minerals in crem) but they don't seem to be literally solid Investiture themselves. They're more containers for Investiture. It seems to be a property of Light to absorb into gems yet exert physical pressure on their crystal structure (where Breath can go in any object and, unlike Light, doesn't leak and doesn't exert any pressure; Mists won't go into objects or anyone except people chosen by Preservation's Vessel).

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On 3/1/2023 at 0:45 PM, alder24 said:

That's a good counter argument with Raysium . But Nightblood isn't god metal and it operates on a corrupted investiture. Investiture however doesn't stay in Raysium.

Sprens Shardblades are made out of Cultivation's god metal, they don't hold stormlight.

Nightblood was an example of a highly invested object. It's arguably more invested than a god metal. At least more obviously invested.

Shardblades aren't made to hold stormlight. They aren't formed into ordered matrices for that purpose. Gemhearts are. 

And I don't believe gemhearts are god metal. They're gems. It's not the material that grants their abilities, it's the form which allows the storing of Investiture, and what is stored that determines the abilities.

Edited by Leuthie
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On 2/28/2023 at 9:33 PM, CMac716 said:

Overlord Jebus

So you've previously described gemhearts as Investiture leaking into the Physical Realm in a similar kind of process to atium. Now atium had a way of-- the Investiture used in the creation of it-- of returning back to the kind of background pool of Investiture on Scadrial. Is there a way of the Investiture used in the creation of gemhearts to return to the Roshar Investiture pool?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Overlord Jebus

There is? Have we had any hints of it at all?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8610

 

Given this WoB, would that imply that gemhearts are also a form of godmetal? The fact that soulcasters can't make them might be further evidence for this. 

 

 

 

 

Atiums/ruin's investiture cycle uses atium geodes 

Are gemhearts analogous? Only with probably lifelight to help the crabs grow 

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On 3/13/2023 at 8:01 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Edgedancer shardblades (cultivationspren) are either Cultivation's god metal or pretty close.

Gemhearts are actual real-life gem types (emeralds, heliodors, and so on) not god metals. The process they're produced.by seems to involve Investiture (though they're also made on the Physical level from minerals in crem) but they don't seem to be literally solid Investiture themselves. They're more containers for Investiture. It seems to be a property of Light to absorb into gems yet exert physical pressure on their crystal structure (where Breath can go in any object and, unlike Light, doesn't leak and doesn't exert any pressure; Mists won't go into objects or anyone except people chosen by Preservation's Vessel).

 

34 minutes ago, drunkenbotanist said:

Atiums/ruin's investiture cycle uses atium geodes 

Are gemhearts analogous? Only with probably lifelight to help the crabs grow 

Because Atium formed in geodes which themselves were in wall filled with crystals that ultimately were not Atium, it looks more like a transfer of Investiture can induce crystal growth. 

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On 3/1/2023 at 10:59 AM, alder24 said:

There is a problem, investiture resists investiture. Investing a god metal with Stormlight would be extremely hard to do, and would possibly require a lot of Stormlight. It would be like trying to Awaken a Shardblade

Atium can be used as a metalmind.

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On 3/18/2023 at 5:34 PM, StanLemon said:

 

Because Atium formed in geodes which themselves were in wall filled with crystals that ultimately were not Atium, it looks more like a transfer of Investiture can induce crystal growth. 

Crystals are used to trap Investiture. In this case, the crystals attracted and trapped Ruin's Investiture and coalesced it into beads. In the case of a Gemheart, they're used to trap spren. The crystals in the pits were created by Preservation to keep Ruin in check and provide a way to kill him.

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