Rereading RoW first time post release in 2020

[+Wax]

RoW - 1st reread after 3 years

Listening to the audiobook again after such a long time, the following were the memorable points

• I could actually listen to Venli/Eshonai’s portions. I half listened to them the first time around. Just couldn’t deal with Venli’s redemption arc after what she did.
• Just felt unemotional through the first part which I felt was a bit of setup. I was quite happy with the feeling of moving on. Then the attack on the tower went into full gear and the sense of claustrophobia was back.
• Even now, it feels like big bulgy book. All scenes individually work. Yet, the effect of the bulge was that it just felt too big. For example, I loved Notem’s cameo, yet it could have been sacrificed.
• The emotional pieces still tugged the strings. Maya’s courtroom scene, Veil’s final departure, Teft’s final scene and Kaladin’s oath all stood out. Other memorable ones were Raboniel’s final dialogue, Warlight intro, Venli’s final scene with her mother and Eshonai’s end.
• At times, I felt like there were so many scenes that I had forgotten. I remember listening the whole book the first time. Yet, so many sections just felt brand new! For example, I had completely forgotten that Kaladin’s next quest would involve getting Ishar and going with Szeth.

Things I picked up (everyone else may already know)

• Gavilar wasn’t trying to to bond. He had expressly rejected the voidspren (mentioned by Ulim). His main character assassins were Navani after an argument and Nale. Somehow, I see another redemption arc incoming.
• Lift was now going around with a “chicken”. Did she pick up Mraize’s bird (sixth of dusk)
  Spoiler

  Maybe sixth of dusk bird to give sight?

   

• Renarin sent gemstones to Taravangians with an apology on his last day. And also earlier met him. Interesting Taravangisn internal monologue there. So, he clearly knew about his upcoming death.

Things I don’t get

• Why was Odium so much in panic due to the tower? There was so much of an assumption that he could lose.
• What was Mraize’s motivations here to provide Lift to Raboniel? If the Ghostbloods (Lost Metal Spoilers)
  Spoiler

  wanted to protect Scadrial, surely they would realise that anything that helped Odium could help it escape the Roshar system and potentially head towards it.

Theories

• The hole in the agreement Odium might try and use is that he might keep everything except Alethkar and Herdaz that he already owns. So, that might mean another attack on Thelena, Tukar, Emuul etc. to grab pretty much everything in the intervening 10 days before the contest of champions.
• A common theory I’ve read here is that some Radiants may ascend. I am leaning towards it more. As there is a broken bond now available in the oathpact, Dalinar may bind Kaladin to it.
• Design may help Wit remember / find out about memory tampering by Odium
• I think the Recreance might have been the reaction to the Singer’s becoming Parshmen. So, the KRs were giving up their powers, like a disarmament treaty.
• long held theory - Dalinar’s other visions are from the cognitive shadow of Gavilar.

Mysteries / Looking forward to

• How will the Dawnshard aspect still fit in?
• More inkspren possibly after Maya’s testimony
• Shattered Plains – so many hints towards its formation being man made. Maybe it might get resolved in Book 5.
• This is from Oathbringer – still waiting for Azure’s blade tech for non-spren shardblades

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by Wax

[lacrossedeamon]

5 hours ago, Wax said:

• Gavilar wasn’t trying to to bond. He had expressly rejected the voidspren (mentioned by Ulim). His main character assassins were Navani after an argument and Nale. Somehow, I see another redemption arc incoming.

Have you read the SA5 prologue that's been released?

5 hours ago, Wax said:

• Lift was now going around with a “chicken”. Did she pick up Mraize’s bird (sixth of dusk)

Not Mraize's; Gerreh's

5 hours ago, Wax said:

• What was Mraize’s motivations here to provide Lift to Raboniel? If the Ghostbloods (Lost Metal Spoilers)
    Reveal hidden contents

  wanted to protect Scadrial, surely they would realise that anything that helped Odium could help it escape the Roshar system and potentially head towards it.

 

Maybe they think the Radiants have a real chance at winning and are just trying to prolong the conflict to keep all the shards here tied up rather than allow either Odium or Cultivation to turn their attention to the wider cosmere.

5 hours ago, Wax said:

• A common theory I’ve read here is that some Radiants may ascend. I am leaning towards it more. As there is a broken bond now available in the oathpact, Dalinar may bind Kaladin to it.

I've also thought this with all the books' focal characters (to include the back half) will become new (or reup in regards to Taln and Shalash) with the time skip being the first time they are on braize but that would require a lot of moving pieces to cover in just SA5 and from the way they describe the Everstorm it doesn't even sound like it would work. Additionally I think the back half will deal with Dalinar becoming the new Honor and Lift becoming the new Cultivation just like Taravangian became the new Odium.

5 hours ago, Wax said:

• long held theory - Dalinar’s other visions are from the cognitive shadow of Gavilar.

There's an alternative theory that Nohadon still exists in some form and he's been doing it.

5 hours ago, Wax said:

• Shattered Plains – so many hints towards its formation being man made. Maybe it might get resolved in Book 5.

I've always assumed it had something to do with Honor being splintered.

[alder24]

18 hours ago, Wax said:

Gavilar wasn’t trying to to bond. He had expressly rejected the voidspren (mentioned by Ulim). His main character assassins were Navani after an argument and Nale. Somehow, I see another redemption arc incoming.

You can read SA5 prologue, it will answer some questions - https://wob.coppermind.net/events/495-prologue-to-stormlight-book-five/

18 hours ago, Wax said:

Lift was now going around with a “chicken”. Did she pick up Mraize’s bird (sixth of dusk)

No, it there was a Terrismen killed by Mraize, and he had an Aviar, his Aviar was being hunted by Mraize's Aviar, and Lift saved him.

18 hours ago, Wax said:

• Why was Odium so much in panic due to the tower? There was so much of an assumption that he could lose.

Odium's plan with the Tower was not only to gain a significant advantage but also to gain a new Champion - Kaladin. He failed. Again. He already agreed to the Contest of the Champions but now he lost two of his Champions, while the Coalition has both of them on their side, Dalinar and Kaladin are very skilled fighters.

18 hours ago, Wax said:

What was Mraize’s motivations here to provide Lift to Raboniel? If the Ghostbloods (Lost Metal Spoilers)

Since WoR Ghostblood were after controlling Oathgates to be able to easily transport Stormlight off-world. That's their main goal on Roshar. By giving Lift to Raboniel, they could gain full and undisturbed access to Fused controlled Oathgates.

18 hours ago, Wax said:

A common theory I’ve read here is that some Radiants may ascend. I am leaning towards it more. As there is a broken bond now available in the oathpact, Dalinar may bind Kaladin to it.

While Ascension to Honor is a great theory, Oathpact is something separate. What would it do now? Fused won't get locked in Braize again as they are reborn during every Everstorm. So remaking Oathpact won't stop Fused invasion.

18 hours ago, Wax said:

The hole in the agreement Odium might try and use is that he might keep everything except Alethkar and Herdaz that he already owns. So, that might mean another attack on Thelena, Tukar, Emuul etc. to grab pretty much everything in the intervening 10 days before the contest of champions.

That might happen, however I doubt this. There is a significant Coalition forces presence in Azir right now, as they just successfully forced Odium forces out of Emul. So Odium doesn't have enough troops to take Azir in 10 days. There is lots of topics about Loophole in the contract on forum, most recent one is this one:

18 hours ago, Wax said:

• Design may help Wit remember / find out about memory tampering by Odium

Design was distracted when this happened so she might not know about it. But Hoid doesn't have his perfect pitch anymore, so he will know.

18 hours ago, Wax said:

• I think the Recreance might have been the reaction to the Singer’s becoming Parshmen. So, the KRs were giving up their powers, like a disarmament treaty.

Recreance was because of many things. Honor was rambling about Dawnshards and Radiants destroying Roshar like Ashyn and didn't reassure them like previous generations. They discovered that humans were the first Voidbringers and brought Odium with them. There was also conflict with the Sibling who banished Radiants from the Tower. So when they realized that imprisonment of BAM caused the entire species to lose their mind, they probably finally realized that they are on the path to destroy Roshar like Ashyn before.

18 hours ago, Wax said:

• Shattered Plains – so many hints towards its formation being man made. Maybe it might get resolved in Book 5.

I personally believe that it was shattered by playing the anti-tone of the Dawncity and amplifying it. Each Dawncity has its own frequency, proved by cymatics and Kabsal, so it also means there is an anti-frequency. And the regularity of the pattern of Shattered Plains, and Shallans description of them makes me more and more convinced that was the case. 

 

13 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I've always assumed it had something to do with Honor being splintered.

No, they were shattered before Last Desolation, both human and listner sources confirm this. Coppermind:

Quote

At some point, Stormseat was destroyed by the same event that transformed the Natan interior into the Shattered Plains. There is some disagreement as to when this happened. Human sources place the destruction of Stormseat at Aharietiam, the last of the old Desolations.[6] Listeners, however, put it significantly earlier, as according to their stories, by the time the Last Legion was sent into the area, the Shattered Plains already existed. Whichever is the case, humans blamed the destruction on the listener gods (either the Fused or the Unmade), though the Song of Wars is confident that this wasn't their doing.

 

[lacrossedeamon]

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

No, they were shattered before Last Desolation, both human and listner sources confirm this. Coppermind:

...

Yes but as we've seen with Preservation the death of Shard can take a long while. Just because the event at Stormseat happened before the Last Desolation and Honor's death after the Recreance doesn't mean they aren't connected. This could be a result of the "injury" that started his decline.