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The night is cold. The dark is colder. Sometimes, it feels like you'll never be warm again. Ash falls. Blood falls. Night falls.

 

Ok Tyrian plus cool cool cool new roles targeted you scan action cancel action cancel plus with added murder Misting plus and Misting just add trauma the random action cancel seems a bit fragile hard for accountability sort of thing 

@StrikerEZ question would the Inquisitor show up as Inquisitor to Seeker scan or as Mistborn

@The Known Novel is the snapping thing half of living players or is it just 7 as a flat number 

I might be heading off to sleep soon so sleep tight dont let the quokkas spike

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63f45afad6238_Screenshot2023-02-20234731.png.4c02edff896753464c2c69dca3d9758b.png

 

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58 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Seems to discourage claiming to me.

To make sure I've understood - it can't be cumulative? i.e. can't be like, seven votes on you across two cycles or so?

Low key tempted to try because wcgw? I sort of feel like if you're Evil, forcing you to choose between actions and sending in a kill is a good sort of dilemma for us, especially if we go with actions accountability in the mid-game to end-game. But also like my vote where it is right now. And ah feck there goes my resolution to play this game solely in RP already.... :( 

Edited to add:

Post editor ate an additional para - I was thinking aloud that it's not necessarily the worst case for us if you aren't Snapped since as long as the Inquisitor Spike is in play, given how high your Snapping threshold is, it's basically an indicator you haven't been converted. That being said, I don't feel very strongly about this since it requires that you're truthful, and also that you didn't just start out as Spiked to begin with, among other things, so eh.

Yeah, uh, can I just say that I don't agree with that like at all. I think the thought process behind that was that it sounded villagery and I am a strong believer of intentionally acting villagery as village, but I could have had a different reason at the time.

Very tightly paraphrasing:

'You must have greater than seven votes at you during the cycle, and you must survive till the end (which I suppose includes the elims kill)'

He also clarified (after I asked just how easily I could game the system), that his intention was that I have more than seven votes at one point in the cycle.

Edit: Also, not letting me snap is universally worse if I'm village. If I get converted, then I will simply pretend to still not be snapped, and if I somehow reach eight votes at a later part of the game, then I'll pretend to miraculously get my power. And I could choose a pretend role if necessary. If I snap early while village, I'm locked in with being truthful about my role (unless I'm crazy, which is only kinda true), and if I do get converted I have to play the action game.

51 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Ash needs to die 

Come on, if you're going to make a pointless poke vote, pointlessly poke vote me.

48 minutes ago, JNV said:

The night is cold. The dark is colder. Sometimes, it feels like you'll never be warm again. Ash falls. Blood falls. Night falls.

 

Ok Tyrian plus cool cool cool new roles targeted you scan action cancel action cancel plus with added murder Misting plus and Misting just add trauma the random action cancel seems a bit fragile hard for accountability sort of thing 

@StrikerEZ question would the Inquisitor show up as Inquisitor to Seeker scan or as Mistborn

@The Known Novel is the snapping thing half of living players or is it just 7 as a flat number 

I might be heading off to sleep soon so sleep tight dont let the quokkas spike

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63f45afad6238_Screenshot2023-02-20234731.png.4c02edff896753464c2c69dca3d9758b.png

 

Seven as a flat number, so if it doesn't happen today (or maybe tomorrow), it will most likely never happen.

Edited by The Known Novel
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Faleast let the ash fall around him. He wasn't laying on it, thankfully - that was more Derrick. And Derrick hopefully wasn't needed anymore. Tyrian's Falls, Fallion's Tears, one of them had what he was looking for eventually. Ruin couldn't take it from them anymore. 

But it wasn't like he could use the powers lerasium gave him here. That had gone... poorly last time. And those blasted Seekers were still sniffing around for secret Hemalurgists; while they weren't as strong as the ones where he'd found it, he wasn't entirely sure if they'd distinguish 'Hemalurgist and Mistborn' from 'Hemalurgist Mistborn' and declare him Inquisitor.

Inquisitor. AraRaash had to suppress a small grin at that. Faleast still hadn't pulled out the details of AraRaash's time in the Final Empire, but he thought the kandra liked being out and about. The Lord Ruler was still likely more powerful than the pair of them, but they could knock an Inquisitor down a steel peg or two.

Preferably the two in their eye sockets, AraRaash said. Those are best. More likely to be useful.

"Don't you want the Feruchemical ones?" Faleast muttered. There weren't a lot of people around them in Creston, but talking openly about the Metallic Arts when imitating a skaa lumberman tended to end up with him hanging by a hook for an extended period of time, and that didn't help anyone.

... had that skaa been hanging by a hook? He hadn't thought so.

Who needs Feruchemy. We've got enough firepower to take on all but six people on this planet. 

Faleast ignored that number. He'd gotten used to AraRaash adding a few extra people that he'd rather avoid. Maybe Lamentation was telling him more again, or maybe he was just making things up. But not wanting Feruchemy... that seemed out of character. 

Although there was a simpler explanation - they weren't in a great position to take another spike. Not needing the ones for Allomancy anymore let them keep room, and Scadrial had enough of an excuse to wear heavy clothing. So, they hadn't packed light.

Faleast had brought his good bones this time.

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6 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

Come on, if you're going to make a pointless poke vote, pointlessly poke vote me.

Well I'm leaning village on you for the time being so I didn't want to waste an exe there (is being roleless really that bad? Better to try and catch an elim/Have substantial discussion regarding it) but I guess since you've clarified that the votes dont need to stay till EoD, you may have your wish, TKN

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17 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Well I'm leaning village on you for the time being so I didn't want to waste an exe there (is being roleless really that bad? Better to try and catch an elim/Have substantial discussion regarding it) but I guess since you've clarified that the votes dont need to stay till EoD, you may have your wish, TKN

Firstly, thank you.

Secondly, roleless isn't all that bad, but I could be a coinshot, a lurcher, a Seeker, or something else not so good. 

Thirdly, this is generating some great discussion, it helps get me village read, it helps the village get a potentially vital role, it generates discussion early d1, which is somewhat rare, it does a lot of things. 

Edit: @Kasimir, sure, I could get scanned, but it's a little unlikely, and even if it does happen, chances are that I won't have been converted by then, at least that's what I think.

Edited by The Known Novel
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1 minute ago, The Known Novel said:

Well, saying it turns it into an IKYK, which reduces your chance of dying by pi^pi^pi%

/shrug

I like JNV's point at the very least. Useful to remember the Inquisitor shows up as an Inquisitor to a Seeker scan which might indicate that they are more findable via Seeker than most of our other roles. Sort of a Melkor situation redux. That being said, that's not really helpful for the rest of the team, but hey, standard analysis factors should work.

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Just now, _Stick_ said:

The reason I’m reading this as v!TKN is because he claimed early enough that e!TKN wouldn’t have had the chance to discuss the claim with his teammates. E!TKN probably doesn’t just do this without discussing it first.

I hesitate because part of me wonders if it's the sort of thing meant to divert Seeker attention since as JNV points out, the Inquisitor is uniquely vulnerable to being scanned. At 14 players, we should be looking at anywhere between two to three Elims, given the conversion. If two, expecting a discussion with one other player isn't especially difficult, and one-shots tend to skew a bit against the Village in my assessment so I'd lean towards a team of two at this juncture. I also don't really consider this too early to discuss as TKN isn't the most communicative doc player (my takeaway from QF64).

Slightly leaning V on Stick for this. Small reads feels more up V!Stick's alley.

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1 hour ago, The Known Novel said:

Edit: Also, not letting me snap is universally worse if I'm village. If I get converted, then I will simply pretend to still not be snapped, and if I somehow reach eight votes at a later part of the game, then I'll pretend to miraculously get my power. And I could choose a pretend role if necessary. If I snap early while village, I'm locked in with being truthful about my role (unless I'm crazy, which is only kinda true), and if I do get converted I have to play the action game.

Yeah, this is village. I can't see any elim motivation behind it. Wanting to gain 7 votes in D1 and possibly risking death in a game of 2-3 elims is not an optimal elim play. TKN

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9 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Yeah, this is village. I can't see any elim motivation behind it. Wanting to gain 7 votes in D1 and possibly risking death in a game of 2-3 elims is not an optimal elim play. TKN

With one conversion, at the start of C1.

Don't really have a strong view on TKN right now, but this is an extremely strong statement and I'm wondering where the unqualified read strength comes from. TJ. as much as it pains me to do it.

Oh yeah, and with two votes on TKN now, believe I'm obligated to write RP defending him. Later I guess.

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8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

With one conversion, at the start of C1.

Don't really have a strong view on TKN right now, but this is an extremely strong statement and I'm wondering where the unqualified read strength comes from. TJ. as much as it pains me to do it.

That particular statement I quoted was village, I cannot see an evil intention behind it, nope. TKN is a lot more assured and strong in statements when he's village and a lot more quieter when he's evil. I'm sorry you cannot not have a view on TKN when he says "I need 7 votes on me pls guys". There are soooo many ways it could go wrong and I've never seen TKN playing as a risky elim. 

- need 7 votes
- makes himself accountable for possible future convert

both points are strong village indicators.

Also, my read of your post is that you are evil and you want to convert me but not before we threadbrawl so it that it's not obvious you converted me and doesn't appear e/e in the future :P. 

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16 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

There are soooo many ways it could go wrong and I've never seen TKN playing as a risky elim. 

It's early on in the game. I'm not sure I consider it particularly risky. In an E!TUN world with that Unsnapped condition, he's basically boned, and it is better to make that call early than to make it mid-game when it can't feasibly be done and he would be more easily be killed. I'd rather wait to see how he plays in subsequent cycles before making a judgement call.

16 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Also, my read of your post is that you are evil and you want to convert me but not before we threadbrawl so it that it's not obvious you converted me and doesn't appear e/e in the future :P. 

If you think I'm Evil, you're welcome to vote to C1 me. As long as I am alive, my job remains what it is: to ID what I think to be suspicious, and I don't agree with the degree of confidence you're ascribing to your reads this early.

Edited to add:

16 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

- makes himself accountable for possible future convert

Like, where does this come from? Where is it more likely than for basically anyone? 

Edited by Kasimir
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2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

It's early on in the game. I'm not sure I consider it particularly risky. In an E!TUN world with that Unsnapped condition, he's basically boned, and it is better to make that call early than to make it mid-game when it can't feasibly be done and he would be more easily be killed. I'd rather wait to see how he plays in subsequent cycles before making a judgement call.

I'm not hard-clearing him as village though, and obviously my read of him will depend of his subsequent actions. It's not a final judgement call. It's my read of him as of now. And the first step of reading is subsequent actions is to follow up on want he claims he wants and see his reactions to it. Which is why I do encourage players to vote for him. I need to reread rules to see if evil players can be UnSnapped though. If not, the worst thing that could happen is a villager could die accidentally, and the best thing to happen could be either [an elim playing risky game dies] or [a villager gains a power and is prevented from conversion]. There's only a small downside to getting him up to 7 votes. 

9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

If you think I'm Evil, you're welcome to vote to C1 me. As long as I am alive, my job remains what it is: to ID what I think to be suspicious, and I don't agree with the degree of confidence you're ascribing to your reads this early.

Wanna get TKN to 7 votes first :P. And if I don't have a better suspect by then, I will :P.

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16 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

I'm not hard-clearing him as village though, and obviously my read of him will depend of his subsequent actions. It's not a final judgement call. It's my read of him as of now. And the first step of reading is subsequent actions is to follow up on want he claims he wants and see his reactions to it. Which is why I do encourage players to vote for him. I need to reread rules to see if evil players can be UnSnapped though. If not, the worst thing that could happen is a villager could die accidentally, and the best thing to happen could be either [an elim playing risky game dies] or [a villager gains a power and is prevented from conversion]. There's only a small downside to getting him up to 7 votes. 

26 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

If my read of the rules is correct, they can be.

On 2/14/2023 at 11:33 AM, StrikerEZ said:

Unsnapped: You have the potential to be an allomancer, though you have not unlocked it yet. Each Unsnapped will have a Snapping Point that they must accomplish in order to unlock their power. These Snapping points will be unique to each individual, and they will be informed of their Snapping Point at the start of the game. If an Unsnapped is converted to a Spiked, they reach their Snapping Point automatically, in addition to gaining whatever power is charged in the spike. Unsnapped show up as roleless to Seekers before they unlock their powers.

I wouldn't expect E!you to directly claim you're hardclearing him as Village - I just note that your initial post frames it as an extremely high level of certainty and that's the sort of thing I believe is more likely to come from an Elim perspective. In general, unless the player in question is highly confident for meta reasons, I view that sort of certainty as potential Elim TMI.

I don't like the opportunity cost - if you feel your votes do the most good parked on TKN instead of applying pressure or following your suspicions, that's on you. I acknowledge that's partly on me as the faster he hits the seven vote mark, the faster votes are freed up and can be persuaded to bump TKN over the threshold if things are closer, but I also prefer where my vote is right now.

19 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Wanna get TKN to 7 votes first :P. And if I don't have a better suspect by then, I will :P.

Sure, go ahead.

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4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I wouldn't expect E!you to directly claim you're hardclearing him as Village - I just note that your initial post frames it as an extremely high level of certainty and that's the sort of thing I believe is more likely to come from an Elim perspective. In general, unless the player in question is highly confident for meta reasons, I view that sort of certainty as potential Elim TMI.

I don't like the opportunity cost - if you feel your votes do the most good parked on TKN instead of applying pressure or following your suspicions, that's on you. I acknowledge that's partly on me as the faster he hits the seven vote mark, the faster votes are freed up and can be persuaded to bump TKN over the threshold if things are closer, but I also prefer where my vote is right now.

But I always have 1-2 strong village reads in D1/C1 though? Granted not as strong as this but I do tend to get strong v intuition in D1 about players. Re: I think Tuatara in the AG as just one of the examples

And agreed about my vote not pressuring anyone which is why I'm showing there's barely any downside to getting TKN to 7 votes. Anyways, it's going to be obvious soon if it's going to happen or not so I do not intend to keep it there if it becomes obvious that we aren't going for that. 

42 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Like, where does this come from? Where is it more likely than for basically anyone? 

Missed this edit. The post I quoted - 

2 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

Edit: Also, not letting me snap is universally worse if I'm village. If I get converted, then I will simply pretend to still not be snapped, and if I somehow reach eight votes at a later part of the game, then I'll pretend to miraculously get my power. And I could choose a pretend role if necessary. If I snap early while village, I'm locked in with being truthful about my role (unless I'm crazy, which is only kinda true), and if I do get converted I have to play the action game.

Shows his whole thought process to outing his role. 

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1 minute ago, |TJ| said:

But I always have 1-2 strong village reads in D1/C1 though? Granted not as strong as this but I do tend to get strong v intuition in D1 about players. Re: I think Tuatara in the AG as just one of the examples

I guess some of this boils down to my feel of the Tuatara case, which is sort of like Tuatara saying "I want to consider Croc indubitably not Spiked" except that was clearly deliberate and this just felt natural. I guess the fact I don't feel the judgement is a natural or obvious one also feeds into the fact I don't feel as positive about it here :P

I also haven't played with you in a Long While apart from LG83/LG84 - I'd count Falcon as an edge case because I spent most of the game thinking Falcon was someone else and this did affect the way I read Falcon (keep in mind I was also huffing E!Falcon for a decent chunk of the game, including in the dead doc thanks to Devo's trolling...)

3 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

And agreed about my vote not pressuring anyone which is why I'm showing there's barely any downside to getting TKN to 7 votes. Anyways, it's going to be obvious soon if it's going to happen or not so I do not intend to keep it there if it becomes obvious that we aren't going for that. 

Fair enough.

3 minutes ago, |TJ| said:
3 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

Edit: Also, not letting me snap is universally worse if I'm village. If I get converted, then I will simply pretend to still not be snapped, and if I somehow reach eight votes at a later part of the game, then I'll pretend to miraculously get my power. And I could choose a pretend role if necessary. If I snap early while village, I'm locked in with being truthful about my role (unless I'm crazy, which is only kinda true), and if I do get converted I have to play the action game.

 

I think the issue is I don't understand why he's locked in to being truthful about his role if he snaps. Why is this especially true?

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3 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I think the issue is I don't understand why he's locked in to being truthful about his role if he snaps. Why is this especially true?

I'm not sure I get this correctly, you're asking why wouldn't he lie to us about his role if he snaps? Well, now that he's revealed his snapping point, we would know if he's achieved it.  And subsequently, there are multitudes of scans. In the end, we can hold him accountable for his actions each cycle. Like it'd be suspicious if he's seen visiting the NK target if he claimed a role like Rioter.

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