harmony Harmonys imbalance

[Mieraaron Spren]

Dont know if this is the correct place to post, if not I apologize, first time.

So it has been stated that harmony is losing control (at least how I understood) and there is a alternate version of him (aka Discord), was wondering what people think of it and if Saied were somehow able to obtain another shard how it could impact him as a holder of two shards. Specifically if he gained the shard autonomy somehow, could the shard and it's essence or rules allow Harmony to have more control over ruin and preservation rather that be trapped and stretched between them trying to maintain balance?

[alder24 Originator]

I think it's getting a bit into TLM zone so it should be posted in the spoiler zone. But anyway.

It is possible that gaining more shards will allow Harmony to act. Shard of Autonomy might just make all shards act independently from each other, while still remaining as a singular entity. Turning into Discord might also allow Sazed to act, as Discord is not about balance, it's imbalance so he could potentially use one shard more than the other without any limits or repercussions. At this point however it's all speculative.

[Returned Envisager]

On 2/5/2023 at 4:23 AM, Mieraaron said:

Specifically if he gained the shard autonomy somehow, could the shard and it's essence or rules allow Harmony to have more control over ruin and preservation rather that be trapped and stretched between them trying to maintain balance?

The most popular theory is that the opposed natures of Preservation and Ruin are the cause of Sazed's difficulty acting, and so adding another Shard (any Shard at all) would provide a Shard's worth of power but that would not be opposed by any others Sazed holds. His difficulties are not a question of balancing a few Shards, exactly, but of 100% of the powers  he holds being in such strong opposition to each other. They aren't even quite two separate Shards any more, but one super-Shard in him, and we've no reason to think that taking another would not have a similar effect. If he were to take up another Shard, it would certainly have an impact on Sazed's Intent and would almost certainly have impacts on his mind, nature, and behaviors over time. Exactly what those would be isn't clear, even if we pick a specific Shard, since we have so few examples of multi-Shardic interactions like that.

I very strongly oppose the suggestion that Harmony is balance and Discord is imbalance. That interpretation doesn't match very well with what we know of Sazed's situation nor the nature of the Shards he holds. We'll learn more, I'm sure, eventually. But I think that another Shard would change Sazed's circumstances drastically and would give him much more scope to act than he has had.

[alder24 Originator]

1 hour ago, Returned said:

I very strongly oppose the suggestion that Harmony is balance and Discord is imbalance. That interpretation doesn't match very well with what we know of Sazed's situation nor the nature of the Shards he holds. 

What I understand by "balance" this is that in Harmony both Shards are working together, equal amounts of Preservation and Ruin are being used by Sazed (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/472/#e14945). But tbf I'm still not quite sure how to interpret Harmony, But to add more TLM spoiler:

Spoiler

I think that Harmony is no longer Harmony. Sazed is trying to force the Intent of Harmony on the Shard, like ‎Rayse was doing with Passion, but is acting against Harmony's Intent, forcing Ruin to be submissive to Preservation, confirmed by Ars Arcanum. To add to this, Ruin has more power than Harmony. Sazed is lying to the Shard, and it's going poorly.

 

[IlstrawberrySeed Ardent]

On 2/6/2023 at 9:39 AM, alder24 said:

Spoiler

I think that Harmony is no longer Harmony. Sazed is trying to force the Intent of Harmony on the Shard, like ‎Rayse was doing with Passion, but is acting against Harmony's Intent, forcing Ruin to be submissive to Preservation, confirmed by Ars Arcanum. To add to this, Ruin has more power than Harmony. Sazed is lying to the Shard, and it's going poorly.

 

We know that Creation should be their intent (the one that allows him to act like any shard can). However, due to it being 2 shards, the vessel has much more control. I wouldn't be surprised if he could have held them in harmony, if he hadn't cared about the consequences. He does, as confirmed in BoM, so he hasn't held them in harmony for very long on shardic standards. It could be beneficial to keeping original personality to alternate between potential intents.

[Elder Arteth]

Spoiler

In TLM, Marsh refers to himself, Kelsier and Sazed as the 3 legs of a tripod.

Sazed is maintaining a very careful balance.  Perhaps Harmony, Balance, is his intent.  If he loses Marsh or Kelsier tho, he may very well lose that balance and become Discord