Nohadon is a Dawnshard

[Frustration]

So I've seen this thought a few times and seen other people have similar thoughts, but I wasn't able to find any dedicated thread about it, so I thought I put it here.

I have long been convinced that Nohadon held a Dawnshard based on this WoB

Spoiler

Snote85

Is Nohadon a herald. There are tons and tons of little things that make me think this. Like the KR have the Way of Kings to base their views and policies on. Which, as was stated, was written by him. In Dalinar's vision of Nohadon, he says things about surgebindings and implies the man he's speaking to is a leader of an order, like he himself is. We know, from the WoR (In world) excerpts, that all the orders were lead by the heralds, after a time anyway. That's my reasoning, not that you need it, if it's true or not true. I just thought I might clarify why I came to that conclusion.

Brandon Sanderson

Nohadon is not a Herald, but I can see what lead you to think otherwise. Let's just say that even among kings and surgebinders, he was someone special.

General Reddit 2017 (Feb. 10, 2017)

But you know what, being me I decided to go deeper, I wasn't satisfied with just Nohadon haing been a Dawnshard, I needed more, and I chose this threads title with care.

 

This WoB

Spoiler

Questioner

So Nohadon's still alive, right?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! Why would you say that Nohadon is still alive?

Questioner

I know he's still alive.

Brandon Sanderson

Why would you say he's still alive?

Questioner

It's the perfect trick, that you're gonna bring back Nohadon. It's my feeling about things.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

Shows a level of curiousity on Brandon's part about how this questioner came to the conclusion that Nohadon was still alive. Now Brandon could just be trolling, but I think there's a bit more.

 

Honor raved that humanity used Dawnshards(plural) to destroy Ashyn(OB 1050),

and in the Poem of Ista

Quote

Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above. ”

—A quote from The Poem of Ista, as transcribed by Jasnah Kholin^[1]

It mentions a Dawnshard known to bind creatures, this does not fit with what we know of Change, and the fact that the author felt the need to specify which Dawnshard indicates that they knew of multiple, which means that at least two had been brought over from Ashyn.

 

However, if this Dawnshard was brought over, where is it now?

In The Way of Kings, page 997 Honor implies that Roshar no longer has access to the Dawnshards, the question is: Why?

Change was being guarded in Aimia, but where was this second one at?

 

Of course, if Nohadon had it, he never really had a reason to give it up.

 

Therefore I propose that not only did Nohadon at one point hold a Dawnshard, but that right now he is both alive and in possession of it.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Frustration

[Stormgate]

I'm inclined to agree in the face of what you've brought up. Do you have any ideas about the nature of the Dawnshard? 

[Frustration]

Just now, Stormgate said:

I'm inclined to agree in the face of what you've brought up. Do you have any ideas about the nature of the Dawnshard? 

Other than potentially being the one able to bind creatures voidish or mortal, nothing solid. Not yet anyway.

In the realm of pure speculation: Nohadon did write a book about the nature of leadership, so maybe Lead, or Guide, or something like that, though I still think Unite(or whatever it ends up being) is probably the most likely

[Rg2045]

If noahdon was a bondsmith he could have made himself immortal, or ageless. Almost liked a hacked hareald.

Questing is if he’s crazy and if he isn’t where is he 

[alder24]

So, there is this WoB

Spoiler

CrypticRadiant

Has Nohadon been a Dawnshard in the past? (my guess is maybe he has and now it’s stored inside The Way of Kings, or jumped to Dalinar from there, would explain the Nohadon dream and the warmth he feels and Unite Them)

Bonus second question: is the ardent Pai actually the Herald Paliah? Other than the name similarity, the other ardent remarks on the name being weird, she’s obsessed with showing the world “The Truth” about Aesudan, and the Taravangian interlude in that same block swears by Pali’s mind, which seems a bit suspicious as it’s an uncommon curse.

Brandon

Good question on Nohadon, and a RAFO to boot.

Actually, both questions are RAFOs. If you ever meet me in person, be sure to demand a card!

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 8, 2020)

And this one is suspicious

Spoiler

Lerasium Mistborn

Dalinar had two non-Stormfather visions. First at the end of Words of Radiance, and second with Nohadon in Oathbringer. I'm curious if these two are related or they come from different sources?

Brandon Sanderson

So, by even answering that, this is one of those questions I tend to RAFO because by answering it I'm implying that your postulations are correct, which I am not even willing to do. It's more of a RAFO in that... let's just say I'm not even willing to confirm the postulations.

Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018)

And this one:

Spoiler

Dalinarium

While reading Dawnshard I remembered something...Dalinar's odd dreams about warm golden light that is very similar to what Rysn experienced.

Is there any connections? Maybe Dalinar is connected to another Dawnshard?

Brandon Sanderson

I will RAFO this, but it's a worthy line of conjecture.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 11, 2020)

 

I think Nohadon was a Dawnshard and a Bondsmith, but put his Dawnshard in a vision, like Change Dawnshard was put in the mural. Dalinar was able to enter that vision, because of the connection between him and Nohadon, and felt it in a similar way that Rysn was feeling when she was looking at a Dawnshard. It seemed familiar to him, he knows it very well, yet he didn't pick up this Dawnshard yet. The description of Dalinar's last vision in WoR was too similar to the Dawnshard's description Rysn made. This Dawnshard is still locked in the vision. Nohodon is most likely still alive, due to Torment, but doesn't hold a Dawnshard anymore. Nohadon doesn't seem like a guy who would keep the Dawnshard to himself forever, he might pick it up at some point because duty compelled him to it, but once it wasn't needed anymore, I think he would give it up. He was a honorable man.

However I never thought about "the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal" the way you did. I always thought that Dawnshards can either be picked up by anyone, or they can be used against anyone. I like your interpretation far better.

[That1Cellist]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

However I never thought about "the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal" the way you did. I always thought that Dawnshards can either be picked up by anyone, or they can be used against anyone. I like your interpretation far better.

I would like to point out the presence of this comma. If it wasn't there then it would indeed imply that there is more than one dawnshard. However, the comma's existence shifts the meaning from that to a description, I think.

I would not be at all surprised if this theory turned out to be correct, and I find it likely there is more than one dawnshard on Roshar, or at least another one being used in the past, but I thought I'd point out that this line doesn't necessarily allude to a second dawnshard being in use.

Edited January 31, 2023 by That1Cellist

[Frustration]

37 minutes ago, That1Cellist said:

I would like to point out the presence of this comma. If it wasn't there then it would indeed imply that there is more than one dawnshard. However, the comma's existence shifts the meaning from that to a description, I think.

I would not be at all surprised if this theory turned out to be correct, and I find it likely there is more than one dawnshard on Roshar, or at least another one being used in the past, but I thought I'd point out that this line doesn't necessarily allude to a second dawnshard being in use.

It is a poem, so that could just be used to indicate pacing.

[That1Cellist]

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It is a poem, so that could just be used to indicate pacing.

Fair point. I simply thought it should be taken into consideration.

[Quantus]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

So, there is this WoB

  Reveal hidden contents

CrypticRadiant

Has Nohadon been a Dawnshard in the past? (my guess is maybe he has and now it’s stored inside The Way of Kings, or jumped to Dalinar from there, would explain the Nohadon dream and the warmth he feels and Unite Them)

Bonus second question: is the ardent Pai actually the Herald Paliah? Other than the name similarity, the other ardent remarks on the name being weird, she’s obsessed with showing the world “The Truth” about Aesudan, and the Taravangian interlude in that same block swears by Pali’s mind, which seems a bit suspicious as it’s an uncommon curse.

Brandon

Good question on Nohadon, and a RAFO to boot.

Actually, both questions are RAFOs. If you ever meet me in person, be sure to demand a card!

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 8, 2020)

And this one is suspicious

  Reveal hidden contents

Lerasium Mistborn

Dalinar had two non-Stormfather visions. First at the end of Words of Radiance, and second with Nohadon in Oathbringer. I'm curious if these two are related or they come from different sources?

Brandon Sanderson

So, by even answering that, this is one of those questions I tend to RAFO because by answering it I'm implying that your postulations are correct, which I am not even willing to do. It's more of a RAFO in that... let's just say I'm not even willing to confirm the postulations.

Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018)

And this one:

  Reveal hidden contents

Dalinarium

While reading Dawnshard I remembered something...Dalinar's odd dreams about warm golden light that is very similar to what Rysn experienced.

Is there any connections? Maybe Dalinar is connected to another Dawnshard?

Brandon Sanderson

I will RAFO this, but it's a worthy line of conjecture.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 11, 2020)

 

I think Nohadon was a Dawnshard and a Bondsmith, but put his Dawnshard in a vision, like Change Dawnshard was put in the mural. Dalinar was able to enter that vision, because of the connection between him and Nohadon, and felt it in a similar way that Rysn was feeling when she was looking at a Dawnshard. It seemed familiar to him, he knows it very well, yet he didn't pick up this Dawnshard yet. The description of Dalinar's last vision in WoR was too similar to the Dawnshard's description Rysn made. This Dawnshard is still locked in the vision. Nohodon is most likely still alive, due to Torment, but doesn't hold a Dawnshard anymore. Nohadon doesn't seem like a guy who would keep the Dawnshard to himself forever, he might pick it up at some point because duty compelled him to it, but once it wasn't needed anymore, I think he would give it up. He was a honorable man.

However I never thought about "the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal" the way you did. I always thought that Dawnshards can either be picked up by anyone, or they can be used against anyone. I like your interpretation far better.

What if The Oathpact = A Dawnshard, and Dalinar got that feeling because he is now responsible for the Oathpact as the Stormfather's Radiant and apparently Tanavast's heir in those matters (or close enough for Odium).  

You know, if it turns out that Cultivation and Honor settled on the same planet as both the "Change" and "Bind" (or something similar) Dawnshards, Ill need a reason beyond Coincidence for associations that on the nose.  

[alder24]

On 31.01.2023 at 5:16 PM, Quantus said:

You know, if it turns out that Cultivation and Honor settled on the same planet as both the "Change" and "Bind" (or something similar) Dawnshards, Ill need a reason beyond Coincidence for associations that on the nose.  

What if it was the other way around? Change came to Roshar after Shards came. But Dawnshards were used during the Shattering of Adonalsium, the original 16 vessels used them, and then what? Abandon or give somebody a weapon that can kill a god? I don't think so. Shards could have taken Dawnshards with them and hid them on plantes they've settled. That would explain why there are so many Dawnshards on Roshar, as they were brought there by three Shards.

[lacrossedeamon]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:57 PM, Frustration said:

and in the Poem of Ista

It mentions a Dawnshard known to bind creatures, this does not fit with what we know of Change, and the fact that the author felt the need to specify which Dawnshard indicates that they knew of multiple, which means that at least two had been brought over from Ashyn.

Along with @That1Cellist I also don't think this means a second Dawnshard. "Known to bind any creature voidish or mortal" sounds like religious poetic platitude (might not be the right word here but something similar). The poem is stated to be ancient but it still gives the vibe of Vorinism's misinterpretations. I agree with your theory that Nohadaon held a Dawnshard but I think it might have just been "Change" itself.