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Hemalurgic Soul-Binding


Trusk'our

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I had a thought about Hemalurgy. What if you Hemalurgically transferred the Healing power of a Bloodmaker back to themselves, and they use previously stored health to repair the damage. After that, you give the spike to another individual. Since the Hemalurgic spike contains a portion of the original Bloodmaker's spiritweb, which includes some of their Identity and Connection, would both Bloodmakers have a kind of spiritual Bond between them? It would be pretty interesting to see if they could use some form of telepathy, or at least have some kind of awareness of each other.

This doesn't actually seem that unreasonable to me, as we see something like this in SA. RoW spoiler.

Spoiler

Syl and Kaladin have some awareness of each other's location, and are even able to perform limited telepathy in RoW.

It would be pretty cool to see Wax and Wayne do this, as they would be an even more powerful duo than before, and I could totally envision Wayne saying to Wax, "look mate, just poke me with the needle real quick like, and then you can grow fingers back too!" or something. :) 

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I don't believe that would work. First, if the part of your soul is back in yourself, it would probably heal the edges so that removing the spike would respike you. If it doesn't (or you heal by burning a metalmind or using a medalian) I doubt that such hemalurgy would create such a Connection. Messing with sDNA is more like messing with identity, and the SA spoiler (not allowed here @Trusk'our) has to do with conection.

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So there is this huge and beautiful WoB relevant here:

Spoiler

HazelCharm47

Let's say we have a hypothetical situation with Miles Hundredlives. In this scenario, he is wearing a gold metalmind filled to the brim with stored healing power. He is then spiked with a cadmium spike and loses his gold allomancy.

Now, if I recall from various WoBs, he would be able to heal using the gold metalmind and regain his gold allomancy. I could be misremembering and he cannot heal it, but I believe he would be able to since it is part of his Identity.

However, one question I have never seen the answer to is this: what happens to the ability in the spike? Is the allomantic ability still contained in the spike, leading to a duplicate? Or is the spike's ability lost? Or maybe I have this whole thing wrong and Miles could never have regained the ability in the first place.

If the ability duplicates (which I doubt), that could lead to some crazy things. Also, this applies to any Twinborn with gold Feruchemy, I just thought Miles was a good example I guess :)

Brandon Sanderson

I'd like to see the exact WoB's here to make sure I'm being consistent, as I don't know that I confirmed you could regain lost powers--only that you could heal from hemalurgic soul damage. Most likely, what you'd end up with is a person who has been healed and can remove the spike from their body without damage, and without needing it to hold their soul together--but who has lost the ability in the spike.

Regardless, though, what you want here (the mass production of spikes charged and even blanked) is possible with the right levels of investiture. It's an energy, like things in our world. The difficulty is finding out how to 1) get enough investiture and 2) key it to the right people and/or magic.

Hope that's a little more clear.

That said, a lot of times people just ask me if something is possible--and a lot of things are possible, but just very difficult. And with the right boost of investiture, in the right circumstances, it WOULD be possible to regrow lost (to spikes) powers. It's just highly unlikely.

I'm not sure if the questions people are asking me are ones I've qualified, or not, in these instances. Also, this is all something I'm playing with still behind the scenes as we enter the modern age of Mistborn.

HazelCharm47

As requested, here are the WoBs I believe are related. They might be obsolete, however. And I assume things will get changed a lot before Era 4, but hey, it's fun to ask anyways :)

WoB #1:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9434

This one states that as long as Miles still has his Identity, he would be able to use his Feruchemical metalminds after being spiked and would be able to heal.

WoB #2:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/102/#e983

This one says that Miles would be able to heal his soul using Feruchemical healing and regain his gold Allomancy (assuming he survives the spiking). I think this is the most essential one!

WoB #3:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6335

This one is only somewhat related - implies that the Feruchemical and Allomantic powers are spiritually part of him.

WoB #4:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/7/#e6435

Also tangentially related - damage to the soul from Hemalurgy can be healed (Although this might just be a Hoid thing). I guess the question could be expanded to include non-Feruchemical healing as a way to repair the soul after being spiked.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, I don't think any of those are specifically inaccurate. I just didn't quite understand what people were trying to get out of me. A lot of times, I don't know quite what people are trying to get out of me. I can see now they're trying to figure out.

I see now, and I appreciate you putting this all together for me so I can see what the fans are trying to figure out. So the answer is a cautious yes. The problem here is that he'd need to compound a TON of healing first--but yes, it would work. You could theoretically turn someone like Miles into an invested spike factory.

If he didn't have enough healing stored, though, he'd end up with a healed soul but a gap (like a scar on his soul) where his spiked-out abilities were. That could theoretically be healed with application of more investiture, depending on things like how he views himself, and if you could get the right type of investiture.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 6, 2020)

So by this you could spike a Bloodmaker, and if he's somehow still alive, give him that spike (it would most likely be placed in a different place than where he was first spiked, so it's a different piece of soul), and if he has enough health stored, he would be able to heal back his soul, restoring his feruchemy, then you can take that spike and give it to someone else. It would work far better with someone like Miles, as after spiking out his feruchemy, he can still compound his full goldminds and heal it back.

But you brought up an interesting topic. The spike contains a piece of someone else's soul, identity and connection. However that piece of soul is disconnected from the rest of it, so unlike how it is in SA

Spoiler

When a spren soul fills gaps in Radiant's soul, however spren is fully there. Their souls are kind of merged together, always very close to each other. And there is a very strong connection between them, Nahel Bond. 

Here you have a disconnected piece of soul that is forced into your soul. There will be some weak connection between that piece of soul and its original host, it has the same identity, but because it's disconnected I doubt there would be any effect. At the very least it might be possible for the original soul donor to have some sort of weak life sense, just enabling him to detect proximity to his stolen piece of soul. But I don't think it would work both ways.

Edited by alder24
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57 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I had a thought about Hemalurgy. What if you Hemalurgically transferred the Healing power of a Bloodmaker back to themselves, and they use previously stored health to repair the damage. After that, you give the spike to another individual. Since the Hemalurgic spike contains a portion of the original Bloodmaker's spiritweb, which includes some of their Identity and Connection, would both Bloodmakers have a kind of spiritual Bond between them? It would be pretty interesting to see if they could use some form of telepathy, or at least have some kind of awareness of each other.

I dont think so, given the example below that spiking muddies the Identity too much for them to share metalminds, even though both recipients can use the originator/victim's metalminds.  I think that same muddying would scramble & dispel any resonant connection that might arise.  

 

 

Quote

 

Lucadaw

If someone used Hemalurgy to take someones Feruchemical abilities would they be able to use that persons personal metalminds? Most relevantly perhaps to take that person's knowledge from their copperminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Lucadaw

If someone stored their identity in an aluminium metalmind, then had their powers and metalminds stolen via Hemalurgy, then the person who took the powers used the aluminium metalmind to draw out the first persons identity would it permanently overwrite their personality with the original persons ? ( would kind of be a long winded way of stealing someone else's body and becoming immortal )

Brandon Sanderson

All Identity questions are a RAFO until I deal with it more in the books. (Sorry.)

WeiryWriter (in response to the first answer)

If the spike granting Feruchemy were to be reforged/split into two distinct spikes which are then implanted into two different people, could those two people "share" a metalmind (as in actually be able to tap something the other stored and vice versa?).

Brandon Sanderson

It's complicated, but no.

There would be too much of the other person mixed in. Both could use the metalminds of the person the Feruchemy was stolen from, but when they made their own, their own Identity would "muddy" the creation.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 7, 2015)

 

 
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