Let's make some unimportant Scadrian Worldbuilding headcanons!

[Ban Barrn Barôg]

On 10/01/2023 at 7:35 PM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

 

Scadrial has no third law of motion because 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction' is old news to this culture

 

The fact coinshots can push up to jump itself contradicts this, I think. It would mean the force would simply vanish instead of being transferred from the anchor to the allomancer, we know that most seen worlds are subject to natural thermodynamics on top of .... investiture thermodynamics i guess

[Werewolff Studios]

The Scadrian equivalent of the Bronze Age would've made raids against the early Terris people quite difficult, causing other tribes to stay away from them, which may have contributed to the Terris becoming more insular over time.  

At least one Scadrian culture or community, after someone has passed away, told them to 'Rust in Peace'.

Alendi's father, the blacksmith, was named Doug. 

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Ban Barrn Barôg said:

The fact coinshots can push up to jump itself contradicts this, I think.

That's like saying that the third law of motion doesn't exist because we can jump. It's the same exact principle.

[NameIess]

On 1/10/2023 at 4:45 PM, Frustration said:

You really could.

Assuming you have 30 individuals who each weigh 120 pounds, and you have them work in 8 hour shifts: They each have 10 days between each shift. Assuming they store 75% of their weight during that time, and are awake for fourteen hours a day they can each spend 12,600 hours weighing 230 pounds, or eight hours weighing 141,750 pounds. Not counting the diminishing returns, or the amount saved by storing to make the piston return to original position.

Diminishing returns is definitely going to have a major impact on that. I'd be surprised if they could even get an hours time weighing that much. Even after that, you'd still lose energy to friction and whatnot. And there's still the issue of finding 30 feruchemists willing to stay at 25% of their weight for every waking moment, 365 days a year, and then paying them. And what happens if one of them dies, or doesn't show up for their shift? This really isn't practical on a large scale.

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Diminishing returns is definitely going to have a major impact on that. I'd be surprised if they could even get an hours time weighing that much.

You don't need them to weigh quite that much, even a thousand pounds is more than enough for current energy needs.

7 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

And there's still the issue of finding 30 feruchemists willing to stay at 25% of their weight for every waking moment, 365 days a year, and then paying them.

Looking at the broadsheets, where a diner can hire steelrunners that won't be too much of a problem.

8 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

And what happens if one of them dies, or doesn't show up for their shift? This really isn't practical on a large scale.

Same thing for every job, you call someone else in.

[NameIess]

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You don't need them to weigh quite that much, even a thousand pounds is more than enough for current energy needs.

I'm not very well versed in energy production, but wouldn't you still lose lots of energy? Power plants aren't very efficient, from what I understand.

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Looking at the broadsheets, where a diner can hire steelrunners that won't be too much of a problem.

Feruchemists are rarer than Allomancers, and hiring someone to do a 9-5 job in which they use their powers normally at no harm to their quality of life is very different from hiring them to dramatically decrease their quality of life for every waking moment. You'd have to pay me a lot of money to do something like that.

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Same thing for every job, you call someone else in.

There aren't that many people to call in, and they'd have to have stores on hand. 

 

All in all, I'd say that even if this works, it'd probably be easier to use harmonium tech to make a push/pull powered generator. Scadrians have only just started using electricity, and I'm sure someone will figure out ways to do this kind of thing in time. (Actually, unless I'm missing something we haven't been told how they're generating electricity, so they could actually be using your method, if the math works out)

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Feruchemists are rarer than Allomancers,

Steelrunners and Skimmers are both Feruchemists.

4 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

and hiring someone to do a 9-5 job in which they use their powers normally at no harm to their quality of life is very different from hiring them to dramatically decrease their quality of life for every waking moment. You'd have to pay me a lot of money to do something like that.

I can't think of any huge life detriments, you could get pushed around easier, but you'd also be really safe froms falls. You could actually take up a second job as a stuntsperson, walking tightropes between skyskrapers and stuff like that.

6 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

All in all, I'd say that even if this works, it'd probably be easier to use harmonium tech to make a push/pull powered generator.

Oh, definately.

6 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

(Actually, unless I'm missing something we haven't been told how they're generating electricity, so they could actually be using your method, if the math works out)

They mention generators in TLM, but other than that nothing I can think of.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Steelrunners and Skimmers are both Feruchemists.

Right. Still, hiring for a normal job is different from hiring them to go around at 25% weight all the time.

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I can't think of any huge life detriments, you could get pushed around easier, but you'd also be really safe froms falls. You could actually take up a second job as a stuntsperson, walking tightropes between skyskrapers and stuff like that.

Walking would suck. Running could be impossible. It would probably have serious effects on bone density, your muscles might atrophy, who knows what other health affects it might have.

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

They mention generators in TLM, but other than that nothing I can think of.

So yeah, they're probably using teams of Coinshots and Lurchers to make power. That would definitely work, especially with Nicrobursts to help, and wouldn't require paying employees for 98 hours of work per week because of constant storing. Just 4 six-hour shifts, with 6-8 different teams of 3-6 allomancers to allow for days off and have backup workers, so 48 allomancers at most.

[Werewolff Studios]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:45 AM, Frustration said:

You really could.

Assuming you have 30 individuals who each weigh 120 pounds, and you have them work in 8 hour shifts: They each have 10 days between each shift. Assuming they store 75% of their weight during that time, and are awake for fourteen hours a day they can each spend 12,600 hours weighing 230 pounds, or eight hours weighing 141,750 pounds. Not counting the diminishing returns, or the amount saved by storing to make the piston return to original position.

This system does sound somewhat plausible, but it also feels like a bit redundant when Scadrial already has working combustion and steam powered engines. To me, it sounds a bit like saying 'why not take everyone that's unemployed and have them ride bikes for 10 hours to generate electricity?' It works as an idea, but I feel it'd be tricky to convince people to take it up as regular job. Adding in the fact that Ferrings aren't terribly common, not to mention the sheer size of the engine that you'd need (as the pistons would have to be big enough for people to stand or sit on), and I feel that the idea isn't feasible on a large industrial scale

Now, could you take that magical mechanic and apply it to machines through something like the medallions? Absolutely. For me, the hardest part of this isn't the magic, it's the people themselves. 

[Ban Barrn Barôg]

12 hours ago, Frustration said:

That's like saying that the third law of motion doesn't exist because we can jump. It's the same exact principle.

Yes, indeed. I guess I overlooked a simpler example in my mistborn mind swamp

[cometaryorbit]

On 1/11/2023 at 9:28 AM, Frustration said:

Coal stoves could just be the name for it.

And the mines in Urteau were for metal, that's why there was a cache there.

Spook specifically says something like "this was a coal mine, not a gold mine, but the complaints were the same"

[Frustration]

12 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Walking would suck. Running could be impossible. It would probably have serious effects on bone density, your muscles might atrophy, who knows what other health affects it might have.

The nature of feruchemy would protect you from those kinds of negative effects, just like how it gives you the strength to move when tapping weight, or prevents your legs from breaking.

[kenod]

So, one big thing to note with the skimmer trick is the question of whether it's economically viable, not physically viable. I suspect people probably had the idea before, given how simple it is, but given that Ferrings are both rare, limited to a small section of the population, and limits on the amount of energy each can generate, you'll run into scalability issues very quickly. Add salaries, and coal plants will probably just be way cheaper and easier to scale up.

Until they also figure out a way to cheaply create mechanical weight-changing devices, perpetual motion machines are fun theoretical exercises, not something actually viable. It's like saying I managed to make a set of wheels that turn perpetually, and can have energy extracted, but I only have 10 of them and can't make more. Sounds really interesting from a physics perspective, probably research groups who'd want to buy them to analyze and try to replicate them, but no energy company is going to be interested, because those wheels could at most just power a single small factory. Actual windmills, the ones used during medieval times, would be more useful.

Edit: Nevermind, just found out someone made this point earlier as well.

Edited January 12, 2023 by kenod

[NameIess]

42 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The nature of feruchemy would protect you from those kinds of negative effects, just like how it gives you the strength to move when tapping weight, or prevents your legs from breaking.

Would it? We don’t know the effects of long-term storing at that level. We do know that it makes your muscles weaker, but it does still make climbing a ladder easier, so there would be at least some degradation of muscles. And walking and running would still be a pain. Coinshots are a much easier and more efficient option.