When did you figure it out?

[Serack]

So I think I suspected Huck was Charlie pretty early, but I can't be sure of that memory.  I did however write a note in my e-reader for the following passage on page 75

Quote

She did her business in the cramped chamber with only a tiny porthole in the wall for light.  Huck politely waited outside without being prompted, proving quite gentlemanly for a rat.

Where I wrote "Huck is Charlie."

It was easy enough that I'm pretty sure Brandon intended us to figure it out early, so I'm wondering what your experience was.  

Edit:  I think there when Huck gave his "name" and seemed to stick around Tress early I was already suspicious, but this is where I pretty much flipped from suspicious to fairly certain.  

Edited January 4, 2023 by Serack

[StanLemon]

I don't know when I first truly suspected it, but I did notice how he reacted when he first saw her face on the Oot's Dream. I think I figured it out though around when they neared the Midnight Sea

[The Unknown Ajah]

I know exactly when I figured it out, when the book outright told me Huck was Charlie, I suck at these kinds of things.

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?]

Yah, It hit me out of nowhere, I really can't take a hint

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?

[StanLemon]

Nothing bad with being surprised by the surprise 

[+Harrycrapper]

I knew he was lying about his nature of being a rat pretty early on. There were constant situations where Tress would say or nonverbally arrive at a conclusion that Huck could be of use for something specific because he was a rat. And then he would remember mid sentence that he was a rat. Probably should have realized who he was sooner than I did though. 

[StanLemon]

There are in my opinion three primary clues as to who he was. His reaction to seeing Tress for the first time since being turned into a rat, how he went on and on when telling his story about sneaking off the boat, and his desperate attempts to get Tress to turn back and then immediately reversal to go with her off the ship because he could keep her safe

[CognitiveShadow]

For me it was a suspicion from their first meeting, but I always reserved a bit of doubt as to whether Brandon was trying to make me think it was Charlie or if it really was haha

When Huck was talking about Hoid’s curse and kept saying that talking about someone else’s curse lets you give more hints and stuff I started to feel pretty certain. But I almost abandoned the idea and bit on the fake Sho del Charlie coming out of the cell too haha 

[AquaRegia]

I'm also pretty dense when it comes to book puzzles and reveals; so many things in books often DON'T make sense that I usually don't bother trying to figure anything out in advance and am happy to just go along for the ride.

I felt fairly confident Huck was more than just a rat, but never really thought he might be someone we know until they reached the Sorceress' island.  I also completely took the bait on the fake Charlie.  So I guess I didn't get it until Tress did.

I do recall thinking at one point early on "I bet Captain Crow turns out to be the Sorceress."  Obviously glad I was wrong about that LOL

[Serack]

22 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

For me it was a suspicion from their first meeting, but I always reserved a bit of doubt as to whether Brandon was trying to make me think it was Charlie or if it really was haha

When Huck was talking about Hoid’s curse and kept saying that talking about someone else’s curse lets you give more hints and stuff I started to feel pretty certain. But I almost abandoned the idea and bit on the fake Sho del Charlie coming out of the cell too haha 

Yah, the You Are Not So Smart podcast episode on Bayesian Logic made it easier for me to consider things like this in terms of degrees of certainty.  I gave room for Brandon to surprise me, but when Huck was talking about Hoid's curse I was applying it to him too.  The cognitive dissonance was in the stuff implying his family were all rats too.  

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2016/04/08/yanss-073-how-to-get-the-most-out-of-realizing-you-are-wrong-by-using-bayes-theorem-to-update-your-beliefs/

[RedBlue]

I was suspicious when a talking rat turned up, because animals acting oddly is generally a sign of shenanigans in cosmere books.

I suspected Huck wasn’t a rat in Chapter 12 when Tress was walking over the spores to the Crow’s Song, and Huck commented that the crew didn’t look like the king’s people. I thought it was an odd thing for a rat to know at a glance.

Then, I paged back a bit to take another look at his meeting with Tress, and I thought … yeah, this rat is definitely Charlie.

[FuzzyLogic]

It seemed clear to me very shortly after he turned up - but that may be because of the narration as much as the prose. The rat behaved a lot like Charlie which I picked up early, but was also performed quite like Charlie.

It didn't spoil anything to have felt that early, but I was surprised I was convinced of it quickly - because usually I'm terrible at spotting these things.

[Werewolff Studios]

I figured it out about mid-way through, though to be fair I initially thought that Huck was a familiar of Charlie; as in, the Sorceress had trapped his mind/ innate Investiture into a rat, but was still holding onto his body. Wasn't until the reveal when I realized it was a full body transformation. 

[Philomath]

3 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I do recall thinking at one point early on "I bet Captain Crow turns out to be the Sorceress."  Obviously glad I was wrong about that LOL

I had similar thoughts about Crow at times as well. The true identity of the sorceress was much more exciting from a cosmere/Hoid perspective. 
 

I had suspicions about Huck/Charlie basically as soon as he was introduced. But I held space for different possibilities. I normally don’t catch twists like these so was pleased that I had “figured it out” even if I never felt 100% confident. While I suspected quickly, I still think it was a well written reveal. 

[CognitiveShadow]

6 hours ago, Serack said:

Yah, the You Are Not So Smart podcast episode on Bayesian Logic made it easier for me to consider things like this in terms of degrees of certainty.  I gave room for Brandon to surprise me, but when Huck was talking about Hoid's curse I was applying it to him too.  The cognitive dissonance was in the stuff implying his family were all rats too.  

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2016/04/08/yanss-073-how-to-get-the-most-out-of-realizing-you-are-wrong-by-using-bayes-theorem-to-update-your-beliefs/

Thanks for the link! I’ll check it out and hopefully improve my ability to know when I’m wrong lol

[+Oltux72]

I didn't until a page or so before it was revealed. It simply made no sense for a rat encountered on an unpredictable ship due to an unpredictable encounter with pirates. So I subconciously ruled it out. I keep forgetting Fortune.

[Serack]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I didn't until a page or so before it was revealed. It simply made no sense for a rat encountered on an unpredictable ship due to an unpredictable encounter with pirates. So I subconciously ruled it out. I keep forgetting Fortune.

Yah, it’s worth asking in a Q&A if he had an in world justification for the coincidence 

[AquaRegia]

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I didn't until a page or so before it was revealed. It simply made no sense for a rat encountered on an unpredictable ship due to an unpredictable encounter with pirates. So I subconciously ruled it out. I keep forgetting Fortune.

That's a GREAT point.  I may also have subconsciously noted that Tress and her co-conspirators specifically chose THAT ship, at THAT time, for important reasons, to execute their complicated plot.  What are the odds that out of all the ships in the Emerald Sea, Charlie would, just by coincidence, happen to be on that very one?

Rusting Fortune.  It's like the opposite of Occam's Razor.

[Morningtide]

22 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

I know exactly when I figured it out, when the book outright told me Huck was Charlie, I suck at these kinds of things.

Yeah I don't theorize about books I'm currently reading much so I had the same experience. 

[king of nowhere]

I never considered it, but not for taking clues; I did figure out most mistborn surprises early on. the reason I never realized huck could be charles is that it seemed impossible under cosmere magic.

when i saw a talking rat, I was very confused. there are no forms of cosmere magic that I know that can make talking animals. I immediately thought of vendell saying that a kandra needs to be at least as big as a rabbit to retain sentience, so that was ruled out. then I was all wtf, how do we get a talking rat in the cosmere? for a while I even suspected it was design, hoid's spren, with a lightweaving.

then came the explanation of familiars, and since it was the only explanation that made sense, i bought it.

I just would have never thought it was possible to turn a man into a rat - while retaining sentience - with cosmere magic. I was thinking in wider cosmere terms, and not in fairy tales terms.

Edited January 5, 2023 by king of nowhere

[Stonerward]

I thought he was a Sleepless right until the reveal so that kept me thinking along the lines of it being Charlie 

[+robardin]

I suspected it early on - mainly when I started thinking of reasons for why Huck would obviously be lying, or at least saying very implausible and inconsistent stuff, about where he came from and how there was a whole clan/family of talking rats that he somehow split off from.

”No way,” I thought, especially when he let slip that he - or all talking rats of his kind - had some connection to the Sorceress. “This isn’t Discworld. There’s no Clan of the Loquacious Rodent. It’s a curse.”

From then on, it wasn’t hard to conclude the obvious reason a person cursed to be a talking rat would latch on to Tress was… That it was Charlie. And then, “Chuck -> Huck” did come to mind.

That didn’t explain the specifics of his curse and how he was supposed to lift it, though. Clearly needing Tress to give him True Love’s Kiss was just too, too cliche, but what, then?

Edited January 5, 2023 by robardin

[Dunkum]

23 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

I know exactly when I figured it out, when the book outright told me Huck was Charlie, I suck at these kinds of things.

same. sometimes I can see it better on a reread - but I pretty much never figure anything out the first time through

[+robardin]

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

I never considered it, but not for taking clues; I did figure out most mistborn surprises early on. the reason I never realized huck could be charles is that it seemed impossible under cosmere magic.

when i saw a talking rat, I was very confused. there are no forms of cosmere magic that I know that can make talking animals. I immediately thought of vendell saying that a kandra needs to be at least as big as a rabbit to retain sentience, so that was ruled out. then I was all wtf, how do we get a talking rat in the cosmere? for a while I even suspected it was design, hoid's spren, with a lightweaving.

then came the explanation of familiars, and since it was the only explanation that made sense, i bought it.

I just would have never thought it was possible to turn a man into a rat - while retaining sentience - with cosmere magic. I was thinking in wider cosmere terms, and not in fairy tales terms.

Yeah, this is something I'd like WoB'ed at some point - AonDor is looking more and more OP.

[StanLemon]

16 minutes ago, robardin said:

Yeah, this is something I'd like WoB'ed at some point - AonDor is looking more and more OP.

Oh I've long since considered AonDor to be the most powerful magic system