Aether and Essences

[StanLemon]

Less a theory and more an observation. The Essences used for Soulcasting appear to have a relationship with the Aethers

Zephyr Aether/Zephyr Essence

Sunlight Aether/Spark Essence

Verdant Aether/Pulp Essence

Roseite Aether/Lucentia Essence

Midnight Aether/Tallow Essence 

[Lightspine]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

Midnight Aether/Tallow Essence 

I'm curious, why did you chose tallow to line up with the Midnight Aether? Of the Ten Essences, I think that Vapor (Smokestone, opaque gas/smoke/fog) is most similar.

To throw another wrench into things, there's the Midnight Essence which isn't one of the Ten Essences but uses that same word, and produced by Re-Shephir. Shallan's interaction with her implies she has some affinity to Lightweavers, whose Essence is Spark. Though I do agree with you that Spark is the closest to Sunlight.

In general though, I'd be cautious drawing these connections since we have 12 (maybe 13 with bone, which would be Talus Essence) Aethers but just 10 Essences, so even if there's a true connection here 2 or 3 Aethers would have no Essence parallel.

(Edit just to be clear because I found these words confusing too: Talus and Tallow are not the same. Talus Essence is bone)

Edited January 4, 2023 by Lightspine

[StanLemon]

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

I'm curious, why did you chose tallow to line up with the Midnight Aether? Of the Ten Essences, I think that Vapor (Smokestone, opaque gas/smoke/fog) is most similar.

I disagree, Midnight Essences are described as oily in appearance. The only time they are described as smoke like is when they are dissolving which is how all Aethers have been described when dissolving like how Roseite was described as evaporating into a pink smoke

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

To throw another wrench into things, there's the Midnight Essence which isn't one of the Ten Essences but uses that same word, and produced by Re-Shephir. Shallan's interaction with her implies she has some affinity to Lightweavers, whose Essence is Spark. Though I do agree with you that Spark is the closest to Sunlight.

Midnight Essence is the name of the creatures produced, that doesn't necessarily equate to the Soulcasting Essences

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

In general though, I'd be cautious drawing these connections since we have 12 (maybe 13 with bone, which would be Talus Essence) Aethers but just 10 Essences, so even if there's a true connection here 2 or 3 Aethers would have no Essence parallel.

Or that there are more essences unknown to Roshar. Just like Silver has an interaction with Investiture even if it isn't Allomantically viable

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

(Edit just to be clear because I found these words confusing too: Talus and Tallow are not the same. Talus Essence is bone)

I indeed said Tallow, which is oils because Midnight Aether is on multiple occasions described as oil like

[Saradas]

Are we sure that there's no connection between the Midnight Essence created by Re-Shephir (The Midnight Mother) and the Aether? 

She has to be drawing on it somehow. Potentially the unmade all have connections with Aethers that make them more powerful.

[StanLemon]

Oh I'm sure their is some kind of connection. At least one person has postulated the possibility that Re-Shephir is an unmade Aether 

[+Oltux72]

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

Oh I'm sure their is some kind of connection. At least one person has postulated the possibility that Re-Shephir is an unmade Aether 

The problem is that by that logic Nergaoul was an unmade emotional allomancer.

[StanLemon]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

The problem is that by that logic Nergaoul was an unmade emotional allomancer.

Not necessarily, emotional alterations seem like a far more generic Investiture than Midnight Essence which is kind of pretty specific.

[+Oltux72]

10 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Not necessarily, emotional alterations seem like a far more generic Investiture than Midnight Essence which is kind of pretty specific.

What makes a Midnight Essence different from a Shade, the Mists or a manifested Spren or frankly any of the Lights for that matter? Its color?

[StanLemon]

18 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

What makes a Midnight Essence different from a Shade, the Mists or a manifested Spren or frankly any of the Lights for that matter? Its color?

No, but all listed properties have been identical. Plus I just brought it up as a likely possibility that has been mentioned in the forums. By their very nature the Unmade had to have been something else before, and with the introduction of Midnight Aether, it is now the most likely candidate.

The reason I started this thread though was to bring up that Essences and Aethers show us that there is another underlying nature to Investiture like how Investiture reacts to metal

Edited January 4, 2023 by StanLemon

[Lightspine]

12 hours ago, StanLemon said:

I disagree, Midnight Essences are described as oily in appearance. The only time they are described as smoke like is when they are dissolving which is how all Aethers have been described when dissolving like how Roseite was described as evaporating into a pink smoke

Ah, you've convinced me. I forgot about the appearance of Roseite evaporating, I assume that must have been in TLM.

12 hours ago, StanLemon said:

Midnight Essence is the name of the creatures produced, that doesn't necessarily equate to the Soulcasting Essences

I didn't mean to equate it as one of the Ten Essences, I was more trying to point out the chain of connections from Midnight --> Re Shephir --> Lightweavers --> Spark which seems weird to me.

Also, I've taken another glance down the list of the Ten Essences and am thoroughly disturbed by Heliodor/Sinew/Flesh. If that corresponds to an Aether, does that mean there are spores which sprout... meat? Ick.

[StanLemon]

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

Ah, you've convinced me. I forgot about the appearance of Roseite evaporating, I assume that must have been in TLM.

Yup

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

I didn't mean to equate it as one of the Ten Essences, I was more trying to point out the chain of connections from Midnight --> Re Shephir --> Lightweavers --> Spark which seems weird to me.

Ah ok, I see what you were thinking 

1 hour ago, Lightspine said:

Also, I've taken another glance down the list of the Ten Essences and am thoroughly disturbed by Heliodor/Sinew/Flesh. If that corresponds to an Aether, does that mean there are spores which sprout... meat? Ick.

Now the image of a meat sea is in my head

[teknopathetic]

Perhaps the Unmade were unmade from aethers? 

[StanLemon]

2 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Perhaps the Unmade were unmade from aethers? 

Maybe some of them like Re-Shephir, but others do seem to be quite distinct from the Aethers like Nergaoul

[IndigoAjah]

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Perhaps the Unmade were unmade from aethers? 

Maybe each is an unmaking/corruption of a Spren like entity from various Shardworlds/similar?

 

With Shards paired up, and Aethers probably not being Shard-alligned,  9 might be the number of worlds represented by Shardworlds+Aether.

 

So you get a corrupted Aether, super-spren (allá Stormfather/Nightwatcher/Sibling), Seon/Skaze/Elantrian, Kandra?, Returned, Shades etc?

 

Makes Odium like Morgoth who cannot create, only warp creation, stealing from all the other Shards.

 

Currently this is just a throw away concept that hasn't been bulked out,.but it has an elegance that appeals to me

[+Oltux72]

6 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

Maybe each is an unmaking/corruption of a Spren like entity from various Shardworlds/similar?

Is it really a good idea to anger all the Shards and the Aethers and other entities? There is a difference between suicide and passion.

6 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

 

With Shards paired up, and Aethers probably not being Shard-alligned,  9 might be the number of worlds represented by Shardworlds+Aether.

So the number 9 of them and the number of Fused types is by chance?

6 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

Makes Odium like Morgoth who cannot create, only warp creation, stealing from all the other Shards.

• Voidspren
• Thunderclasts
• Voidbinders
• whatever was used to destroy Ashyn
• the Everstorm

 

[IndigoAjah]

Those are things he's invested in, none are things he's made. (Explicitly, the ones we know anything about seem to be things already present like Parshendi, who turned to him from their original Shards, corrupted by him.)

And we don't know how the "magic numbers" for Shards work. Is there an unavoidable element? Can they pick to a degree? Even if it's a pure coincidence, it doesn't really affect the theory. 

And Odium's exact aim is to end up as the ONLY Shard. Why do you think corrupting some of their essence is going to upset all the Shards more than knowing he plans to eventually kill them all?

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by IndigoAjah

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

Those are things he's invested in, none are things he's made. (Explicitly, the ones we know anything about seem to be things already present like Parshendi, who turned to him from their original Shards, corrupted by him.)

If Odium hasn't made Voidbinding, who has made it?

3 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

And we don't know how the "magic numbers" for Shards work. Is there an unavoidable element? Can they pick to a degree? Even if it's a pure coincidence, it doesn't really affect the theory. 

True.

3 hours ago, IndigoAjah said:

And Odium's exact aim is to end up as the ONLY Shard. Why do you think corrupting some of their essence is going to upset all the Shards more than knowing he plans to eventually kill them all?

Because he's had allies in the past. Now, what makes Shards ally with him? We do not really know much. But there are rational reason one might propose

• somebody needed to eliminate Ambition. Odium was the lesser evil.
• He is a fool compared to those he eliminated and the rest. He will fail, but until then he is useful.
• They think they can come to an agreement with him.

But that does not mean that they would tolerate direct aggression.

[IndigoAjah]

Whose to say as part of making a deal with him a Shard hasn't given him a Splinter to corrupt?

 

And even Voidbinding ACTS like Surgebinding, which also sounds like it was linked to Odium once but has Surges unique to Honor. We don't know enough about Voidbinding and the history of Ashynn to know whether Odium corrupted Honor's magic or Honor copied Odium's but the similarities are clear that one is a copy of the other 

[+Oltux72]

5 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

Whose to say as part of making a deal with him a Shard hasn't given him a Splinter to corrupt?

That is in principle possible, but the number of unmade is too large for that to be the case for many of them. Of course in theory they could all have been core aethers. But then where is the evidence?

5 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

And even Voidbinding ACTS like Surgebinding, which also sounds like it was linked to Odium once but has Surges unique to Honor.

This opens a big can of worms.

5 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

We don't know enough about Voidbinding and the history of Ashynn to know whether Odium corrupted Honor's magic or Honor copied Odium's but the similarities are clear that one is a copy of the other 

If it is a copy it is still something that Odium made, albeit with a close inspiration.

[StanLemon]

50 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

This opens a big can of worms.

If it is a copy it is still something that Odium made, albeit with a close inspiration.

Technically none of the Shards made their magic systems, they arise naturally. Also, the only Voidbinding we've seen so far is Renarin's use of Illumination

[Frustration]

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

whatever was used to destroy Ashyn

Surgebinding and Dawnshards.

[lacrossedeamon]

On 1/4/2023 at 0:16 AM, StanLemon said:

Less a theory and more an observation. The Essences used for Soulcasting appear to have a relationship with the Aethers

Zephyr Aether/Zephyr Essence

Sunlight Aether/Spark Essence

Verdant Aether/Pulp Essence

Roseite Aether/Lucentia Essence

Midnight Aether/Tallow Essence 

Not sure there is much merit to this connection but from the AoN trunked novel we also have the Ferrous Aether/Foil Essence and Bestarin Aether/Sinew Essence. We don't really know what Crimson Aether produced spikes are actually made of but going off color might relate to Blood Essence. I'd say Zephyr Aether actually relates to both Zephyr and Vapor Essences. The hinted at "Bone" Aether could be Talus Essence with a possible connection to Sandmastery related to transmuting rock and stone. I think Midnight Aether lies outside the Ten Essences. If two of the canon Aethers are the Ferrous and Bestarin from AoN then we still have 4 unaccounted for, one of these probably deals with hydrocarbons which then leaves three more unrelated to Essences as well.

From AoN Aethers are meant to be paired with Midnight having been paired with Illuminous which I'm not sure is the same as Sunlight/Golden Aether. It is also possible those two are outside of the Ten Essences being seen as higher than the rest but the other 10 Aethers due correspond with the Essences with the hinted at 13th Aether actually not being a thing with something else creating rock/stone and Vapor being its own as well. Going with this we could try pairing off the Ten Essences similar to how the Aethers were paired off. Roseite/Lucentia and Verdant/Pulp are paired; Ferrous/Foil and Bestarin/Sinew are paired. Speculations would then be Zephyr/Zephyr and ???/Vapor, Sunlight/Spark and ???/Talus, Crimson/Blood and ???/Tallow.

[teknopathetic]

On 1/5/2023 at 5:36 AM, StanLemon said:

Technically none of the Shards made their magic systems, they arise naturally. Also, the only Voidbinding we've seen so far is Renarin's use of Illumination

But shards may be able to tamper with the magic system. Preservation was able to do some swapping with a couple of metals. I wonder if that was something extremely taxing to do, or if it is essentially at a shard's whim to make changes like that to whatever magic system they are saddled with. 

[Zapata]

On 1/4/2023 at 3:32 PM, Lightspine said:

Also, I've taken another glance down the list of the Ten Essences and am thoroughly disturbed by Heliodor/Sinew/Flesh. If that corresponds to an Aether, does that mean there are spores which sprout... meat? Ick.

Aether of Night spoilers:

Spoiler

The Flesh aether could be the new version of Bestarin. The aether bud would probably function similar to the old version, while the spore might make... actually probably just meat. Although I do think it's notable that neither Ferrous nor Bestarin have been represented in canon, perhaps they function too differently from how Brandon wants aethers to work.

 

[lacrossedeamon]

8 hours ago, Ookla the Observant said:

Aether of Night spoilers:

  Hide contents

The Flesh aether could be the new version of Bestarin. The aether bud would probably function similar to the old version, while the spore might make... actually probably just meat. Although I do think it's notable that neither Ferrous nor Bestarin have been represented in canon, perhaps they function too differently from how Brandon wants aethers to work.

 

Well we have only seen half of the 12. I'm assuming we haven't seen Illuminous either (I think the sunlight aether is different). But yeah those seem to work differently in AoN since they seem to change the host itself which might no longer be the case anymore.