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Xisis and his species


RedBlue

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Xisis was the first good canonical look we’ve had at an actual dragon, Cultivation aside, so I thought I’d round up some of the things we know now.

 

About Xisis specifically (unclear how much this is typical of dragons, and how much is just Xisis):

  •  Xisis keeps ‘servants’, though other characters refer to them as slaves. He likes his ‘servants’ to be well-mannered, preferably skilled to begin with, and easy to train. He doesn’t care if they came to him willingly, and they’re not allowed to leave, but he makes sure their physical and emotional needs are well met (within reason).
  •  Generally, Xisis seems short on empathy, but is interested and entertained by ‘mortals’.
  •  Xisis can make a cloth move ‘as if alive’ by waving a claw at it. The cloth then seems to react to Crow on its own.
  • He can also reliably receive a message in a bottle dropped anywhere in his part of the sea.
  •  Xisis makes a point not to interfere with the human societies on the planet where he’s living, though it’s okay that people know he exists, and he has no issue interacting with individuals who come to find him.
  •  Xisis needs an ‘excuse’ for his decision to spare Tress. He does not explain why.
  • Xisis implies that he fears Riina, and nobody else on Lumar. This suggests that a single, sufficiently skilled, Elantrian could realistically pose a threat to a dragon.
  • Xisis is currently researching the ecosystem at the bottom of the spore seas, a backwater with little to no relevance to the cosmere at large. As of the events of Tress, he has been there for at least 300 years, possibly longer.

 

About dragons generally:

  • Dragons encourage ‘mortals’ to respect and fear them, as this may prove useful later.
  • To that end, Dragons make an effort to seed stories and legends about themselves through societies around the cosmere. They often visit forming societies for this purpose.
  • Dragons hoard ideas, but are uninterested in traditional forms of wealth or treasure.
  • Dragons will not give or accept a free gift. If they take something, they need to trade something of value in exchange. (Ulaam implies that this is normal for dragons, not just Xisis.)
  •  Dragonsteel is a metal that grows on dragons’ bodies. It forms claws, horns and spines.
  •  Dragons are not always in their ‘natural forms’.
  • Meeting a dragon is rare for most people, though they don’t dislike interacting with people.

 

Questions I have:

  • What is that thing Xisis does with the cloth? It looks like Awakening, but Xisis doesn’t speak to do it. Was the cloth ‘pre-programmed’ and just waiting to be turned on by a gesture?
  • How does Xisis ‘watch’ the sea? How does he know when someone throws in a message?
  • Where does he get his servants from? Are they all from people like Crow, who find him and bring him a new slave in return for something?
  • Where did the objects he traded to Tress come from? How did he know Ann’s prescription? Or where Salary’s father was?
  • Why does he need an ‘excuse’ to spare Tress? Is there some kind of enforced dragon code of conduct? Who would hold him to account?
  • Why are dragons so weird about trades?
  • Why is Xisis so interested in the ecosystem in the spore seas?
  • Why is Xisis afraid to tangle with Riina?
  • Why is it so rare to see a dragon, if they have no problem interacting, and like collecting information and trading?

 

A few tentative conclusions I think it’s reasonable to draw:

  • Dragons have access to powerful abilities, especially ones to do with gathering information, but are not necessarily that good in a fight (or Riina wouldn’t be a big deal).
  • Dragon psychology is weird. Like, really weird. There are hard-and-fast rules they follow very strictly, to a point that does not make intuitive sense to humans.
  • Dragons are relatively rare in the cosmere. Few people see them, either because few exist, or because most of them live somewhere inaccessible.
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12 minutes ago, Frustration said:

At incredibly high heightenings awakeners can awaken with mental commands.

Good point. It would imply that Xisis has a LOT of Breath, but there’s no reason why he shouldn’t.

I can’t think of a more convincing explanation. 

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8 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Xisis was the first good canonical look we’ve had at an actual dragon, Cultivation aside, so I thought I’d round up some of the things we know now.

 

About Xisis specifically (unclear how much this is typical of dragons, and how much is just Xisis):

  •  Xisis keeps ‘servants’, though other characters refer to them as slaves. He likes his ‘servants’ to be well-mannered, preferably skilled to begin with, and easy to train. He doesn’t care if they came to him willingly, and they’re not allowed to leave, but he makes sure their physical and emotional needs are well met (within reason).

That applies to every enlightened slaveholder.

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  •  Generally, Xisis seems short on empathy, but is interested and entertained by ‘mortals’.

Debatable. He may see mortals as a step below him like pets or live stock. You do not have empathy with the latter. We have no idea how he would behave towards another dragon. He(? - the beard suggests it) may be a genuinely niece ... serpent.

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  •  Xisis can make a cloth move ‘as if alive’ by waving a claw at it. The cloth then seems to react to Crow on its own.
  • He can also reliably receive a message in a bottle dropped anywhere in his part of the sea.
  •  Xisis makes a point not to interfere with the human societies on the planet where he’s living, though it’s okay that people know he exists, and he has no issue interacting with individuals who come to find him.

That may not be his own volition. For all we know he just wants no trouble with the 17th Shard, whose leader seems to be a dragon, too.

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  •  Xisis needs an ‘excuse’ for his decision to spare Tress. He does not explain why.
  • Xisis implies that he fears Riina, and nobody else on Lumar. This suggests that a single, sufficiently skilled, Elantrian could realistically pose a threat to a dragon.
  • Xisis is currently researching the ecosystem at the bottom of the spore seas, a backwater with little to no relevance to the cosmere at large. As of the events of Tress, he has been there for at least 300 years, possibly longer.

No, definitely no. The planet itself doesn't matter. What has happened to the Aethers, however, is extremely significant. In fact they might even destroy all but the most advanced worlds. The question we should ask is rather why he is the only one to study them. Or is he?

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:

 

About dragons generally:

  • Dragons encourage ‘mortals’ to respect and fear them, as this may prove useful later.
  • To that end, Dragons make an effort to seed stories and legends about themselves through societies around the cosmere. They often visit forming societies for this purpose.
  • Dragons hoard ideas, but are uninterested in traditional forms of wealth or treasure.

Or they simply have so much that adding to it is futile. He can feed, house and clothe a multitude of slaves at a remote location for centuries. He is certainly not poor.

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Questions I have:

  • What is that thing Xisis does with the cloth? It looks like Awakening, but Xisis doesn’t speak to do it. Was the cloth ‘pre-programmed’ and just waiting to be turned on by a gesture?

Ehm, sorry, but what is he doing to the spores in the first place? He is moving a few thousand tonnes of spores at a minimum. Do you want to propose that he uses different powers controlling the spores and the cloth?

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  • How does Xisis ‘watch’ the sea? How does he know when someone throws in a message?

Fortune? Futuresight? Connection to the spores?

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  • Where does he get his servants from? Are they all from people like Crow, who find him and bring him a new slave in return for something?

Presumably Lumar has slave markets.

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  • Where did the objects he traded to Tress come from? How did he know Ann’s prescription? Or where Salary’s father was?

The Eleventh metals comes to my mind (the substance, not the story)

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  • Why does he need an ‘excuse’ to spare Tress? Is there some kind of enforced dragon code of conduct? Who would hold him to account?

Frost

8 hours ago, RedBlue said:
  • Why are dragons so weird about trades?
  • Why is Xisis so interested in the ecosystem in the spore seas?
  • Why is Xisis afraid to tangle with Riina?
  • Why is it so rare to see a dragon, if they have no problem interacting, and like collecting information and trading?

Because they are rare?

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

At incredibly high heightenings awakeners can awaken with mental commands.

 

  1. We do not know how Awakening interacts with the inherent Investiture of an Awakener. The awakened object needs to be invested with Breaths, but the awakener himself?
  2. There are multiple systems that could do it. Awakening, Surgebinding and probably AonDor. Yolen is known to have Microkinesis which looks like a superset of Stoneshaping. A Stoneward can use clothing as a weapon. That would seem to be the obvious solution.
  3. No strange color effects around him
31 minutes ago, Shacharma said:

As to Raiina, he could be more powerful but simply not a warrior type and therefor wouldnt want to go against somone with enouhg power who does know how to use it effectively for offensive purposes

If it came to a clash, could he afford to let her live with him on the same planet possibly plotting for revenge? Suppose he kills her. Then what? If the Ire still exists, will they investigate? Will the other dragons look favorably on a fellow dragon who angers the Ire?

Killing and war will become necessary from time to time. Preparation for the eventuality is necessary. But seeking them is a notion you should fear. Beings who do not do not survive for thousands of years.

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8 hours ago, Shacharma said:

It could just be a Yolish magic system (micro-kinesis?)

As to Raiina, he could be more powerful but simply not a warrior type and therefor wouldnt want to go against somone with enouhg power who does know how to use it effectively for offensive purposes

Yeah, the dragon’s ability to move stuff around could well be a Yolish ability we don’t know about yet.

I’m leaning towards the idea that Xisis is not that proficient at real combat. He seems like more of a scholar than a fighter. (He does use the word fear, which doesn’t sound like a ‘conflict would be inconvenient’ situation.)

 

7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

No, definitely no. The planet itself doesn't matter. What has happened to the Aethers, however, is extremely significant. In fact they might even destroy all but the most advanced worlds. The question we should ask is rather why he is the only one to study them. Or is he?

No, the text (chapter 51) specifically says that Xisis is researching the ecosystem at the bottom of the spore sea:

Quote

Xisis did not want his servants to be tainted by things like reminders of the world outside. They had important work to do, after all: serving him and his research into the complex ecosystem at the bottom of the spore seas.

The Aethers are more important to the cosmere, I am sure, but Xisis is here to research the planet. It seems he has very different priorities than everyone else.

 

7 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Ehm, sorry, but what is he doing to the spores in the first place? He is moving a few thousand tonnes of spores at a minimum. Do you want to propose that he uses different powers controlling the spores and the cloth?

I left out the undersea spore palace and tunnel because honestly I do not know what to make of it. I’m not convinced that Xisis made or is actively maintaining it; we don’t see him interact with the spores the way we do with the cloth.

My best guess for how it works is that maybe Xisis made some kind of deal with the Crimson Aether Moon to make the palace stay in place and the tunnel appear when he needs it. That would explain why he’s restricted to the Crimson Sea. If that’s the case, it doesn’t explain how he can move the cloth.

Or there could be something completely different going on with the palace. For all we know, someone else built it or a device that maintains it, and Xisis bought or took it. 

If Xisis can move all that weight in spores at will and hold them in place continually, that’s crazy OP.

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1 hour ago, RedBlue said:

My best guess for how it works is that maybe Xisis made some kind of deal with the Crimson Aether Moon to make the palace stay in place and the tunnel appear when he needs it. That would explain why he’s restricted to the Crimson Sea. If that’s the case, it doesn’t explain how he can move the cloth.

Or there could be something completely different going on with the palace. For all we know, someone else built it or a device that maintains it, and Xisis bought or took it. 

If Xisis can move all that weight in spores at will and hold them in place continually, that’s crazy OP.

I assumed he chose the Crimson sea because it saw less traffic than any other seas except midnight so he would be disturbed less there and also keep his distance from Riina and midnight essence? 

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1 hour ago, Jeffo said:

I assumed he chose the Crimson sea because it saw less traffic than any other seas except midnight so he would be disturbed less there and also keep his distance from Riina and midnight essence? 

Traffic shouldn’t be an issue. Ships sail on top of the spores, while Xisis is a good distance under the surface.

Keeping away from the Midnight Sea makes sense, but you’d think an ecology researcher would want to move around a bit more over 300+ years.

 

1 minute ago, StormingTexan said:

So since Xisis is obviously the same as Foil mentioned by Khriss I wonder what Frost real name is (assuming it is a nickname similar to Foil). 

I don’t remember a Foil being mentioned. Is this from White Sand?

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Just now, RedBlue said:

I don’t remember a Foil being mentioned. Is this from White Sand?

It was from RoW Ars Arcanum. Pretty sure she was referring to Xisis. 

Quote

 

I think that perhaps Foil, deep within his ocean, would find this information supports my theories over his. And he’d do well to listen to me on this matter if he ever wishes to achieve control over the aethers, as he has insisted is his goal.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, RedBlue said:

Good catch, @StormingTexan. It does look like Foil is Xisis.

It seems like he did manage to find a way to control the aethers, though how he’s doing it and the limitations are still anybody’s guess. 

There is the thing. The areas of research do not match. The ecology of the bottom of the spore oceans and control of the aethers are hard to see as the same thing.

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9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The ecology of the bottom of the spore oceans and control of the aethers are hard to see as the same thing.

Not necessarily. Maybe the ecology that lives down there needs to learn some limited method of controlling the spores in order to be able to survive down there.

20 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

I think that perhaps Foil, deep within his ocean, would find this information supports my theories over his.

What theories is she referring to here?

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4 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Not necessarily. Maybe the ecology that lives down there needs to learn some limited method of controlling the spores in order to be able to survive down there.

What theories is she referring to here?

She was referring to creating anti-investiture. 

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On 1/3/2023 at 7:16 PM, RedBlue said:

Dragons will not give or accept a free gift. If they take something, they need to trade something of value in exchange. (Ulaam implies that this is normal for dragons, not just Xisis.)

Actually, this may be an artifact of their being fain, which presumably are modeled after the "fae" which have similar lore about having to make trades.

WoB:

Quote

Dragons are fain, if you're wondering. If that's what the question is, yes, dragons are fain.

 

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6 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Did you see the illustration in the book? It has the hair and beard but was kind of bummed that it did not show the extra set of limbs. 

huh?  They've got 4 legs (2 are practically arms in the image) and a pair of wings, that's the 6 limbs of a fain creature.  

WoB: (full one from what I quoted partially in an earlier post)

Quote

LewsTherinTelescope

In The Lost Metal, we find that Sho Del have four arms, making six appendages. In the [sample] chapters for The Liar of Partinel, we find that a fain deer has six legs. Is this pattern important?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Questioner

Further, how relevant to this is [it] that if you count four legs plus two wings, dragons have six limbs?

Brandon Sanderson

Yep, that is the exact correlation that I would like you to draw! Dragons are fain, if you're wondering. If that's what the question is, yes, dragons are fain.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

Edited by Serack
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1 hour ago, Serack said:

huh?  They've got 4 legs (2 are practically arms in the image) and a pair of wings, that's the 6 limbs of a fain creature.  

WoB: (full one from what I quoted partially in an earlier post)

Ah ok. In my head I was not counting the wings. Pretty much every dragon ever depicted in any fantasy work looks like this one (except maybe the hair). I was picturing like 2 sets of legs and one set of arms with the description in the book kind of like this one. 

 

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On 1/3/2023 at 7:16 PM, RedBlue said:

Dragons will not give or accept a free gift. If they take something, they need to trade something of value in exchange. (Ulaam implies that this is normal for dragons, not just Xisis.)

Hot take:  Wayne is, and has always been, a dragon.

On 1/4/2023 at 4:30 AM, Oltux72 said:

For all we know he just wants no trouble with the 17th Shard, whose leader seems to be a dragon, too.

I'm honestly not sure what one would have to do to earn "trouble with the 17th Shard".  Just because they choose noninterference does not imply that they hold anyone else to their standard.  They don't seem to be opposing any of the forces who are trying to take over various parts of the Cosmere in any way.

13 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The areas of research do not match. The ecology of the bottom of the spore oceans and control of the aethers are hard to see as the same thing.

If the spores are (as described) falling continuously from the lunagrees, and if the spore oceans are not rising, then it must follow that spores are being removed from the oceans by some mechanism.  Since no reported surface phenomenon explains this, it makes sense that it may be happening at the bottom of the oceans.  Knowledge of the recycling of matter/investiture (via aether spores) on Lumar could very well be consistent with learning how to control them.

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Re: Xisis’ research — thinking about it, it’s probable that studying spore sea ecology and studying aethers/spores amount to the same thing. If there’s anything alive down there, it must interact closely with the spores. Studying the ecosystem could easily lead to breakthroughs about the spores, and vice versa.

Maybe there’s some animal or plant down there that can control the spores in some way, and Xisis planned to learn to mimic it.

Alternatively, controlling the aethers/spores might have been a subgoal, to enable him to better study the ecosystem.

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