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Aether of Sand (sp1)


Koloss17

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So I have just finished the book, and need to share my thoughts. @The Bookwyrm made a wonderful post on it already, (100% check out his thoughts), but felt that I wouldn’t want to put my thoughts there, as they’ve only read part of the book. 
 

so this is my warning: DO NOT PROCEED PAST THIS POINT IF YOU HAVE NOT READ ALL OF SP1. It’s worth the read, and my theory will be involving all parts of the book. There will also be slight spoilers for TLM, so be wary of that too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So now that everyone here has hopefully read everything, I shall begin my rambling, starting with what @The Bookwyrm has said. He pointed out that there are striking similarities between sand on white sand and aethers, the largest being the use of water as a price for control of the sand. But the similarities don’t stop there. Further down the line, we see Tress experimenting with verdant sprouts, and realizing that there is a similar connection to that of the midnight spores, but less advanced. This is something also felt with sand mastery, where they feel almost alive, but don’t quite have a mind of their own. Additionally, when they are used up, and the investiture killed, they blacken. 
 

A more interesting comparison is how Taldain’s sun acts oddly like the moons on Lumar. While grains of sand do not fall from the sky, they are invigorated by sunlight, turned from black to white again. This is not exactly something seen in the spores, as for all we know, once they are blackened, they stay dead. However, we do see that the moons exude some sort of investiture, as Fort recharges his awakened tablet by exposing it to the sun. Now, I know the sun isn’t the same as the moons, but clearly something in the sky is invested, and allows the tech to keep going. It’s also worth noting that the moons seem to be stationary, just like Taldain’s sun.

 

So there’s a lot of similarities. Are they exactly the same? No. Lumar’s moons drop spores from the sky, something that Taldain’s sun doesn’t do. Aethers also respond much more explosively than white sand does, and once they blacken, they cannot unblacken. Not to mention that sand mastery is genetic. So I don’t think they are exactly the same, but there’s something suspicious going on.

 

Here’s my thought: I don’t think sand mastery is of Autonomy. I personally don’t buy it. It is way too simple a magic system and extremely niche within the world. It is also insanely similar to Aethers, which has never really happened to magic systems made by different shards. I think sand mastery is related to Aethers, and originated there in some capacity, but are not the same as Aethers. Something is weird about them, and I just can’t believe that they started in Taldain. Unless, of course, Aethers are of Autonomy.

 

Now, that’s an interesting theory, and it does have its merits. The autonomous nature of Aethers, both as we know them on Lumar and as we know them from TLM, seem to align very much with the nature and Intent of Autonomy. The only hitch is that Taldain, Autonomy’s presumed base of operations, is on the opposite side of the galaxy from Lumar. But given the shenanigans Autonomy got up to in TLM, distance doesn’t seem to be that important. Am I confident that the Aethers are of Autonomy? Nope! But it’s either that or white sand isn’t of Autonomy in my books. 
 

Anyway, this is less of a theory spouting and more of a rambling post. If you have suggestions or additions to make, be my guest. I think this is a very intriguing line of thinking, and I want to get to the bottom of this.

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Another possibility is that Autonomy just co-opted the aethers on this planet. That could explain why they are different from the core aethers. It seems similar to other things autonomy has done by investing not directly on a planet or people, but on the sun or moon causing the lichen, worms, and spores to be invested. 

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  1. White Sand needs a source of Investiture to recharge. The Aethers tap the Spiritual Realm like in the Metallic Arts.
  2. Nalthian arcane arts do not need recharge. This thing looks like technology and seems to simply recharge electrically from sunlight.
  3. The sand is not the only Invested Art on Taldaine.
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I think one of the books (though I could be misremembering) said that the Aethers predate the shards/shattering. In this case maybe Autonomy copied parts of what she saw in the Aethers in the system for Taldain? That's my current theory at least. 

Edited by Inkspren_K
Mistyped planet name
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18 hours ago, Inkspren_K said:

I think one of the books (though I could be misremembering) said that the Aethers predate the shards/shattering. In this case maybe Autonomy copied parts of what she saw in the Aethers in the system for Taldain? That's my current theory at least. 

Ohhhh yeaaah. I completely forgot about that little tidbit in TLM. Kinda shoots down the theory. Thanks for bringing that up!

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I'd also add that Autonomy seems to co-opt existing magic systems. Now TotES takes place lete enough in the Cosmere timeline that it's possible that stories of White Sand made it to Lumar and the similarities made people think it was an Aether. Or, it really is a different Aether that she took and planted on her own little planet

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9 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Not necessarily. When adolnasium shattered, all investiture was assigned to one of the shards. Now the aethers dispute that claim, and say they're their own separate thing. But it's possible their investiture was assigned to autonomy

That is actually a really good point! Hope lives!!!!

 

6 hours ago, StanLemon said:

I'd also add that Autonomy seems to co-opt existing magic systems. Now TotES takes place lete enough in the Cosmere timeline that it's possible that stories of White Sand made it to Lumar and the similarities made people think it was an Aether. Or, it really is a different Aether that she took and planted on her own little planet

This is also a fair point. Also that acronym is killing me inside. It 100% makes sense, but storms.

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23 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

I expect many terrible jokes in the future 

Oh god I was just complaining about the length and trying to decipher what each letter meant. I just now saw that it’s totes. Be right back, just jumping into a chasmfeind’s gullet real quick.

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I wonder if Sandmastery is actually related to the legendary 13th aether Fort mentions. The planet doesn't have coral reefs so no sand beaches. They might not have recognized the material for what it was and thought it bone instead.

Regarding the tablet we know Awakening was used for its predictive abilities utilizing Connection but the recharging might not be Investiture related at all and just be normal solar powered batteries.

You do seem to missing that the sand itself on Taldain isn't what is being invested by it's sun but microorganisms that live within the sand.

But yes there are a lot of suspicious similarities.

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5 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I wonder if Sandmastery is actually related to the legendary 13th aether Fort mentions. The planet doesn't have coral reefs so no sand beaches. They might not have recognized the material for what it was and thought it bone instead.


Yeah, that seems to be quite a common theory. I think it has some merits, but I feel like the black of the uninvested sand would be quite similar to that of blackened Aethers on death, so I am not sure how the unsureness would come about in regards to color.

Quote

You do seem to missing that the sand itself on Taldain isn't what is being invested by it's sun but microorganisms that live within the sand.

Oh wow I completely forgot that! That makes things so much more likely! Thank you, I totally didn’t catch that (or I might have, but it was on my first read-through). 

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3 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:


Yeah, that seems to be quite a common theory. I think it has some merits, but I feel like the black of the uninvested sand would be quite similar to that of blackened Aethers on death, so I am not sure how the unsureness would come about in regards to color.

Possibly because black sand can be reInvested back into white sand which seemingly doesn’t happen to dead spores. So that color change is probably what is confusing them.

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On 1/2/2023 at 10:15 AM, Koloss17 said:

 

Here’s my thought: I don’t think sand mastery is of Autonomy. I personally don’t buy it. It is way too simple a magic system and extremely niche within the world. It is also insanely similar to Aethers, which has never really happened to magic systems made by different shards. I think sand mastery is related to Aethers, and originated there in some capacity, but are not the same as Aethers. Something is weird about them, and I just can’t believe that they started in Taldain. Unless, of course, Aethers are of Autonomy.

Sand Mastery isn't actually that simple or niche. It only looks like that because we are missing half of the magic system. 

To explain im gonna do full dive from what I read from the omnibus, but since this is a full spoilers thread. That should be fine. First an explanation of the magic of Darkside then how Sand Mastery fits in with it. 

This is what we know of the magic of Darkside, known as Starmarks. Its implied that everyone on Darkside has Starmarks but not everyone can access them, the process of which was noted as being similar to how people gain Sand Mastery. Starmarks, from what is implied are invested tattoos that get recharged every seven days by a pulse from the Darkside Star, like how White Sand gets recharged by the Dayside Sun. People who can access the magic of Starmarks are known as Starcarved and what powers you get is implied to be different depending on the colors of your Starmark, of which Khriss mentions include manifesting armor and weapons from the Starmarks.

Sand Mastery, when analyzed by Khriss was noted to have a couple of similarities to Starmarks. When used in a dark space, Khriss notes its mother-of-pearl shine, and how she could almost see every color of the Starmarks in its light. The initation of Sand Mastery is not exactly genetic, rather it is described as something that needs to be nurtured, requiring a Sand Master to initiate the process. The genetic part comes from the stigma of Kenton having weak Sand Mastery due to being half Darksider but by the end of the comic we see a Darksider be initiated with a powerful manifestation to Sand Mastery. So it can't be all that.

In terms of capabilities Sand Mastery is actually incredibly diverse, from flight, creating clones near the level of lightweaving and from Khriss speculated, armored suits of sand similar to what the Starcarved can do. It just isn't seen since the focus of power over finesse by Sand Masters in the past. Or that's a least what Khriss speculated in the Ars Arcanum pages in the omnibus.

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Someone on Reddit pointed out that the so called "bone spores" rumored to be a 13th type of Aether might actually be white sand! Since there's disagreement about whether or not bone spores are white or black, and white sand is both (white when charged with investiture, black when drained). I know I'm not adding much to the discussion with Autonomy but I think it's a neat tie-in.

As for the differences, I think the largest one is that the white sand doesn't "grow" like the Aether's do. And the use of water is also a bit strange, since the Aether's explicitly use water as a "catalyst" to draw investiture from the Spiritual realm (according to Ulaam) yet the white sand microorganisms already have investiture before the water is given to them. The way Brandon describes the white sand microorganisms:

Quote

it’s actually a microscopic lichen-like substance living on the sand, and giving it its white color, that creates the magic. The Sand Master gives water to the lichen, fueling its magical life cycle, which in turn releases power that allows the Sand Master to control the sand.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309/#e12982

I think this implies the lichen might be using water to reproduce/grow, in which case it is very similar to the Aether spores, just less pronounced. Perhaps both Aethers and white sand microorganisms require both water and investiture to spread. White sand just happens to already have access to one of those, but demands water too?

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On 1/2/2023 at 10:15 AM, Koloss17 said:

we do see that the moons exude some sort of investiture, as Fort recharges his awakened tablet by exposing it to the sun

moons ≠ sun LOL  As noted by several others, this is almost certainly just a case of an electrical device with solar charging.

On 1/2/2023 at 2:58 PM, Oltux72 said:
  • White Sand needs a source of Investiture to recharge. The Aethers tap the Spiritual Realm like in the Metallic Arts.
  • Nalthian arcane arts do not need recharge. This thing looks like technology and seems to simply recharge electrically from sunlight.
  • The sand is not the only Invested Art on Taldaine.

@Oltux72 for the win - 3/3.  The role of water in Aether magic is paralleled by that of metals in Allomancy.

On 1/3/2023 at 8:58 PM, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

When adolnasium shattered, all investiture was assigned to one of the shards.

I'd love to see any evidence you have for this.  My understanding was that Aethers 1) predate Adonalsium, and 2) represent Investiture wholly separate from the Shards.

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17 hours ago, AquaRegia said:

I'd love to see any evidence you have for this.  My understanding was that Aethers 1) predate Adonalsium, and 2) represent Investiture wholly separate from the Shards.

Here's what brandon said

Quote

Overlord Jebus

Is all Investiture in the cosmere associated with a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, well, okay. So this is a complicated one. *pauses* So, Investiture predates the Shattering of Adonalsium, all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered. Some of the Investiture was not on Yolen but location is irrelevant. So Investiture is related to Shards even on planets where none of the Shards are inhabiting. 

Link: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8605

However, you're not entirely wrong either. The aethers do predate the shattering for sure, and say they predate adolnasium itself but that's not necessarily true- Moonlight and Twinsoul have a brief discussion to that effect. Same with them being separate from the shards; the aethers do say that, but that doesn't mean they're right. Really, we don't have enough info about either the aethers or adolnasium to say one way or another. Which is what I was getting at- I didn't mean that the aethers for sure weren't independent, but that it's disputed that they're independent, so their investiture being partially associated with autonomy in some way isn't completely out of the question

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I see, that makes more sense... thanks for posting.  I agree we don't seem to know enough yet, and it's very Brandon for in-cosmere characters to be confidently wrong about stuff.

I do worry about how WoBs get spoken (sometimes poorly, often distractedly), recorded (sometimes badly), and transcribed (sometimes misleadingly).  There can be an awful lot of room for error and lost meaning in that chain.  Is it possible that when he said

Quote

... all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered.

what he was THINKING was "all the Investiture that Adonalsium held at the time of the Shattering got assigned to one of the 16 Shards"?  If so, that would not preclude there being Investiture NOT associated with Adonalsium, and thus not now associated with a Shard.  Given that WoBs are not canon, this one's from 2017, he does sometimes misspeak or get misquoted, and he sometimes just plain changes his mind, I think it's at least possible.

But you are right, overall that quote seems to be pretty clearly saying "all Investiture that exists is related to a Shard".

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10 minutes ago, AquaRegia said:

what he was THINKING was "all the Investiture that Adonalsium held at the time of the Shattering got assigned to one of the 16 Shards"?  If so, that would not preclude there being Investiture NOT associated with Adonalsium, and thus not now associated with a Shard.  Given that WoBs are not canon, this one's from 2017, he does sometimes misspeak or get misquoted, and he sometimes just plain changes his mind, I think it's at least possible.

 

But you are right, overall that quote seems to be pretty clearly saying "all Investiture that exists is related to a Shard".

Well there are a few notable exceptions, namely being things that predate the Shattering.

Spoiler

ChromatiCaos

You said that all Investiture got assigned to a Shard when Adonalsium got Shattered, which Investiture do the Dawnshards draw from? What about the aethers?

Brandon Sanderson

Dawnshards and aethers both predate the Shattering, and the rules don't apply to them.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

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58 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Well there are a few notable exceptions, namely being things that predate the Shattering.

A list we would now have to add to:

  • Dragons (surely)
  • Sho-Del (surely)
  • Sleepless (likely)
  • The Messenger MeLann met (likely)
  • maybe really old Cognitive Shadows, some spren and so on ...

At this point it is time to face the drums. Shardic magic is important, yet it is a minority case in the Cosmere.

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2 hours ago, Frustration said:

Well there are a few notable exceptions, namely being things that predate the Shattering.

  Hide contents

ChromatiCaos

You said that all Investiture got assigned to a Shard when Adonalsium got Shattered, which Investiture do the Dawnshards draw from? What about the aethers?

Brandon Sanderson

Dawnshards and aethers both predate the Shattering, and the rules don't apply to them.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

My take:

Everything is made up of Investiture. Things that existed prior to the Shattering and still exist today without change (humans exchange 98% of the atoms in their bodies every year, so they wouldn't count) would be made of the same Investiture they were made of prior to the Shattering. Since this Investiture was never free Investiture, they wouldn't have been changed in any way by the Shattering. 

Aethers and Dawnshards haven't changed since the Shattering. They contain the same Investiture they contained before the Shattering. This Investiture would have Intent the same as it was prior to the Shattering. Adonalsium's "Intent". The "full" Intent. "Complete" Intent. However Brandoson will end up calling it.

The Investiture Aethers and Dawnshards use to perform things, however, is free Investiture with Intent, tying it to a Shard. They probably don't care what that Intent is since they're made up of ALL of them.

As for whether Taldain and Lumar have the same Aethers: Of course they do. Taldain has more mature Aethers, grown microorganisms that are tied to the sand and aren't nearly as aggressive. Lumar has adolescent Aethers, teenagers full of raging hormones spitting out their seeds everywhere. Taldain has a resident Shard that has instituted controls onto the resident Aethers. Lumar may be shardless with the young Aethers taking full control.

I'm probably wrong, but that's how I interpret it all.

And yes, the 13th aether is white sand. That one's pretty obvious.

Edited by Leuthie
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I absolutely agree that the legend that Fort talks about involving bone spores is a reference to White Sand. The disagreement in world over whether they are white or black makes that pretty obvious. However, I don't think that White Sand is necessarily related to the Aethers. Rather, I think that both Aethers and White Sand are different examples of the Luhel bond. Both work in similar ways, requiring water in trade for doing their bidding. There seem to be, as discussed above, too many differences in the specifics of where they originate and how they work for white sand to actually be a 13th aether. But Hoid was very specific in talking about the Luhel bond, and if the aethers were the only example in the Cosmere, then it would probably just be called an aether bond rather than having a broader category name.

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On 1/9/2023 at 11:41 PM, Renarin Kholin said:

I absolutely agree that the legend that Fort talks about involving bone spores is a reference to White Sand. The disagreement in world over whether they are white or black makes that pretty obvious. However, I don't think that White Sand is necessarily related to the Aethers. Rather, I think that both Aethers and White Sand are different examples of the Luhel bond. Both work in similar ways, requiring water in trade for doing their bidding. There seem to be, as discussed above, too many differences in the specifics of where they originate and how they work for white sand to actually be a 13th aether. But Hoid was very specific in talking about the Luhel bond, and if the aethers were the only example in the Cosmere, then it would probably just be called an aether bond rather than having a broader category name.

I think it's likely that the Luhel Bond is also what is happening with Aviar and Purelake Fish. Where the Nahel Bond is between two Sapient individuals (Spren and person/Singer), the Luhel bond may be a bond where at least one side is Sentient, but not Sapient (or is seeking sentience/guidance). It also may be possible that the Mandra Bond for a Chasmfiend or Larkin is, technically, a Luhel Bond rather than a Nahel Bond. 

Edited by Treamayne
SPAG
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