Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Great point Eri! though there is still the issue of where would Bloody Tan get Atium since Sazed is the one doling it out or not at his own whims now, or at least that is how I understand it. I do think it has to be more "mundane" than one of the God Metals... either a Mental/Physical Speed Ferring or an Electrum Misting, or Hemalurgically granted one of those powers as manipulated by the Set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmj812 Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 It seems to me that mortician would be a pretty good cover story for a hemalurgy enthusiast... at least one who liked being clean and methodical about it, rather than one who liked to be all Inquisitor Blood Orgy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 the description of one of the corpses does say it was "spiked" to the wall, there's no way Brandon used the term accidentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 the description of one of the corpses does say it was "spiked" to the wall, there's no way Brandon used the term accidentally. True, but just because he used it intentionally, doesn't mean that Bloody Tan is practicing Hemalurgy. It could be a red herring of sorts... Do we have any idea where the name came from? WE don't find his first victim, "the one that sent Wax hunting" until 2 months later and after Wax is already in the gallery. I also am questioning the Set's involvement in Bloody Tan, only because Wax didn't get the letter to come back to Elendel until that same day he found Bloody Tan's hideout. Don't know...MAYBE they could still be involved, but it seems a stretch, especially since his Uncle seems to indicate that he didn't really want Wax back, but didn't have another option for 'proper' heir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmj812 Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 You raise an interesting point, Green. If he didn't leave a trail of bodies, he must have either claimed credit for the murders or been witnessed committing them... otherwise how would Wax even know to follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Seems unlikely to me that Sazed/Marsh would have gotten a bunch of people intentionally killed to move Wax back to the city. It'd be far more in character for them to simply have Marsh show up one day and tell him to, or send a Kandra. Even discounting that, shooting Lessie with an Aluminum bullet would have had a lower body-count and probably been more effective. That being said, something is definitely up with Tan. Note: in the "gallery" the geologist is posed studying rocks, and someone else is posed flying, therefore presumably is a coinshot. And Tan uses knives, with no mention of them being Aluminum or Obsidian. So even granted that the coinshot was probably just a regular dude with no combat experience who liked easy mode Le Parkour, taking him down with knives without some special advantage doesn't seem in the cards. A Steel Ferring or double twinborn could have done it, but that leads to the question of why he didn't dodge the next shot. It could be he's got an unorthodox mix because of Hemalurgy, but how'd he find the bind points? Given that no one considers the idea that the kidnappings were intended to provide Mistings to spike, and the newspaper Koloss story indicates that no one realizes Koloss are Hemalurgic, it appears Sazed left it out of his book in some manner. Electrum seems unlikely, it shows a cloud of possible futures (it and gold are paired because they're internal, Atium and Malatium are external) but it's like looking at the shadow cloud produced by opposing Atium burners, and presumably it would contain not only Tan getting shot, but also Tan dodging to the left, Tan ducking, Tan dodging to the right, Tan getting shot as a result of any of those, Tan rushing Wax and getting shot, Tan rushing Wax and not getting shot, etc. In theory he could be a Mistborn, but the whole "dying from a single steel bullet" makes that somewhat unlikely even beyond them not being believed to exist at this point in time. Atium synthling (we need a name for people with Hemalurgically gained powers, and I personally like this one) would be a possibility, I guess. Sazed might not be making new Atium, but burned Atium was inaccessible to Ruin, so the existing Atium power stock is presumably floating around waiting for geodes to solidify into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well we do know that Sazed changed Koloss so they are true breeding creatures, so I don't think they are Hemalurgic creatures anymore, but it's never specifically stated that they're not. I'm pretty positive that he left Hemalurgy out of his books. It does say that Lessie was shot and bleeding out and "that is why he (Tan) was able to over power her" in the Prologue, so there doesn't necessarily have to be anything special about him... even coinshots get drunk or careless. Though taking out allomancers is harder to do, the really crazy thing he does is moving Lessie in front of the bullet. That is why my vote is for some sort of speed Ferring, either Zinc or Steel. I agree with the Electrum idea, it would show ALL the possible actions he could have taken, so it does seem unlikely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispsy Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Name here makes a good point, why did be let himself get shot after if he was doing it with misting powers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmj812 Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Name here makes a good point, why did be let himself get shot after if he was doing it with misting powers I definitely got the feeling that he let himself be shot. That's why he stopped to enjoy the moment because he knew it was going to be his last. As for the "why," because he's completely nuts. His psychotic, nihilistic ramblings suggest that he doesn't feel any agency for the things he's done, and doesn't see any value in living. This was his masterpiece, and his own death was the finale. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I definitely got the feeling that he let himself be shot. That's why he stopped to enjoy the moment because he knew it was going to be his last. As for the "why," because he's completely nuts. His psychotic, nihilistic ramblings suggest that he doesn't feel any agency for the things he's done, and doesn't see any value in living. This was his masterpiece, and his own death was the finale. Dying after he finished his masterpiece would definitely fit his crazy profile... The other options was, he used up all of his speed (mental or physical) for that one moment to move Lessie in front of Wax's bullet and he had none left to dodge the next bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariusJenai Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Why did be let himself get shot after if he was doing it with misting powers The best performances are those that can only be performed once. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispsy Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 damnit i hate art as an excuse for things >.< art needs more set rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Lol... I'd say the rarest performances are those only done once, doesn't make them the best though they could also be that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmj812 Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 His masterpiece wasn't the gallery, or lessie, or even himself... his masterpiece was what all of that did to Wax. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darniil Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 damnit i hate art as an excuse for things >.< art needs more set rules! Q: How many artists does it take to change a lightbulb? A: Trout. Q: How many graphic artists does it take to change a lightbulb? A: Squid. The best performances are those that can only be performed once. I'd say the rarest performances are those only done once, doesn't make them the best though they could also be that... A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't a square. (That is to say, just because something was performed only once does not mean that it was any good.) Although, in your defense, GHM, one reason why some may agree with Tan is because nostalgia for that once-ever performance makes it seem even better than it was, regardless of how good it was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyodor Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 The Ars Arcanum said that knowledge of Hemalurgy was hidden by the first post-apocalypse generation and that most of the remaining practitioners are Kandra (which would imply to me that Koloss are not). http://books.google.com/books?id=34fV6RKOFpQC&lpg=PP1&dq=alloy%20of%20law&pg=PA332#v=onepage&q=hemalurgy&f=false Well we do know that Sazed changed Koloss so they are true breeding creatures, so I don't think they are Hemalurgic creatures anymore, but it's never specifically stated that they're not. I'm pretty positive that he left Hemalurgy out of his books. It does say that Lessie was shot and bleeding out and "that is why he (Tan) was able to over power her" in the Prologue, so there doesn't necessarily have to be anything special about him... even coinshots get drunk or careless. Though taking out allomancers is harder to do, the really crazy thing he does is moving Lessie in front of the bullet. That is why my vote is for some sort of speed Ferring, either Zinc or Steel. I agree with the Electrum idea, it would show ALL the possible actions he could have taken, so it does seem unlikely to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Agreed darniil, though I also agree with pmj that the performance wasn't anything leading up to, but it's effect on Wax, shattered the poor man and forced him out of his chosen work for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 I guess. Sazed might not be making new Atium, but burned Atium was inaccessible to Ruin, so the existing Atium power stock is presumably floating around waiting for geodes to solidify into. 300 years. The time that various people in Final Empire thought it would take for the atium geodes to regrow in the pits after Kelsier brutalised them. Possibly also not coincidentally the time between Hero of Ages and Alloy of Law. I rather suspect the atium cycle is back up and running. Also people have the power of both Ruin and Preservation in them, could there be an esoteric way of "smelting" them down for atium or lerasium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicspren Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 There is a possibility (albeit a slim one) that we have ignored. Wispsy came closest: i like the idea of tineye, he coulda just got lucky tho! Lucky. Fortunate. What does Chromium store feruchemically? What would happen if you replaced Bloody Tan with Mat Bloody Cauthon when Wax fired his shot? And what if that one burst used up all his stored fortune, allowing him to be shot easily afterwards? I know we don't have evidence that people know about Chromium, but if Tan had somehow learned of it, that could explain his motion at exactly the right time. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 There is a possibility (albeit a slim one) that we have ignored. Wispsy came closest: Lucky. Fortunate. What does Chromium store feruchemically? What would happen if you replaced Bloody Tan with Mat Bloody Cauthon when Wax fired his shot? And what if that one burst used up all his stored fortune, allowing him to be shot easily afterwards? I know we don't have evidence that people know about Chromium, but if Tan had somehow learned of it, that could explain his motion at exactly the right time. I like this. It fits well with the speculation on other threads about trelagism coming from the people living across the sea on the South Pole, who have (according to the broadsheet) mysterious metals. Remember how we all thought allomancer Jack was lying about his exploits, then Lo, and behold! the Ars Arcanum says that feruchemists can in fact store 'connection'. I found this to be the least likely thing to be true on the broadsheet, yet it was. Brandon has hinted at other people living across the sea as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispsy Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 would explain it nicely ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberfit Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Hey guys, I'm new here so I'm sorry for bumping this thread but I just finished the book and this is all fresh to me. So, the book obviously leaves a lot of open questions (16 alloys of the god metals?) and Bloody Tan is definitely part of the puzzle it offers us to solve. While I like the idea of Bloody Tan burning Chromium, I just don't see it fit the bill. I.e. without Duralumin there is no reason why Tan would've run out of luck at that very moment. I also feel like he allows himself to be killed afterwards and that being lucky doesn't mesh with the other information we're given in the scene (i.e. his insanity). I much more feel like there is a god metal involved. Either in its own or an alloy of the two. The insanity of Bloody Tan gives us the best clue I think because the way he keeps claiming that they're all "puppets" hints a lot towards Atium. A person who's burning Atium could very well lose his mind after seeing for too long that everything is already planned out for some great cosmic play. Heck, I almost turned crazy after turning to Determinism as a teen. I rather like the idea of Bloody Tan having been a previous "champion" of one of the battling sides (there are probably more than we know of). He is not an Atium misting per definition which still leaves open that he's either got access to more Allomantic abilities, that he's burning an alloy or that he's using Hemalurgy in some way. The next book is going to be a nice read. Edited March 19, 2014 by Cyberfit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) There's a WoB that I saw yesterday, I think, that mentions that we've seen time travel in Alloy of Law. Specifically, we saw someone traveling forward in time. Bloody Tan is the person who immediately came to mind. Edit - Here's the relevant quote - Q: (overheard at a distance) Is there time travel in the Cosmere? A: We haven't seen time travel into the past, but we have seen it into the future in Alloy of Law. It can be found at the bottom of the Scottsdale section here - http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6605-words-of-brandon-compiled/ Edited March 20, 2014 by junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I think this refers to Marasi's Cadmium burning. It effectively is time travel into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I think this refers to Marasi's Cadmium burning. It effectively is time travel into the future. True. But foreknowledge due to having already been to the future (and back) would explain why Bloody Tan knew when Wax was going to fire. It could also explain why... (Shadows of Self Steelhunt Spoiler) - Wax briefly sees someone who appears to be Bloody Tan in the Shadows of Self excerpt in the Steelhunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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