Eldergod3 Posted December 25, 2022 Report Share Posted December 25, 2022 (edited) Listening to Shardcast Episode right now and they’re talking about why do the Fused retain their surgebinding when resurrected and Kelsier lost his Allomancy when he was made a cognitive shadow. My thought is the Fused powers come from Odium and their Immortality comes from Odium. Scadrian’s are of Preservation and Ruin, and yes while Allomancy is of Preservation, Kelsier was made a cognitive shadow by Preservation’s power, Ruin was not involved. Maybe thats the disfunction. Edited December 25, 2022 by Eldergod3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusk'our Posted February 7, 2023 Report Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 12/25/2022 at 7:14 AM, Eldergod3 said: Listening to Shardcast Episode right now and they’re talking about why do the Fused retain their surgebinding when resurrected and Kelsier lost his Allomancy when he was made a cognitive shadow. My thought is the Fused powers come from Odium and their Immortality comes from Odium. Scadrian’s are of Preservation and Ruin, and yes while Allomancy is of Preservation, Kelsier was made a cognitive shadow by Preservation’s power, Ruin was not involved. Maybe thats the disfunction. Hmmm. Interesting idea. I personally think that Kelsier may not be able to use Allomancy because he's not enough in the Physical Realm. He has stappled his Soul back into his body via Hemalurgy, but hasn't maybe fused back together perfectly. I think that it is also possible that he counts as being "dead" still, maybe because his body was dead, and he was re-united with it rather than taking a new, living body like the Fused do. Whatever the reason, it probably has to do with Realmatics of his resurrection rather than his actual Allomantic potential being gone (his spiritual DNA being messed up), since Hemalurgy still doesn't do the trick and Lerasium has had doubt placed on it by Harmony. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted February 8, 2023 Report Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) I don't think it's too much bias to Preservation since Lerasium grants Allomancy and it is pure Preservation. I think it's either specifically imperfect "stapling" of Cognitive Shadow to body (so the Spiritual DNA codes for Allomancy his cognitive-shadow-and-Sliver-ized spiritweb still has can't be properly expressed in his body), or more generally using a non-Allomancer and likely non-human body (it's probably a mistwraith) that doesn't match up correctly with an Allomantic spiritweb/Spiritual DNA. Mistwraiths are descended from transformed Feruchemists so they might actually be harder to get Allomancy to work with than a random non-Allomantic human. Still, if it was just a body problem lerasium could fix that. But if it's a link from soul to body problem then eating lerasium might not necessarily rewrite the soul properly either. Also, while it's ultimately in the Spiritual DNA/spiritweb, Allomancy may be more body-based than Surgebinding since the metal has to get physically inside the body to be burned, and since there's a WoB about Vin's Mist-burning to Ascension that "the corporeal host" defines the specific powers. Also, newer WoBs that Allomancers are resistant or immune to metal poisoning imply that being an Allomancer makes actual measurable changes to a body vs default human. So body-soul match may matter. Edited February 8, 2023 by cometaryorbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) Additionally, Kandra cannot get allomancy or fuerochemy from base metal hemalurgy, and we know Kel's spike is a basic metal (forgot which one), so if he is stapled to a mistwraith he probably wouldn't have powers. He might not be stapled to a mistraith, however. Edited February 9, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: Additionally, Kandra cannot get allomancy or fuerochemy from basic metal hemalurgy, and we know Kel's spike is a basic metal (forgot which one), so if he is stapled to a mistwraith he probably wouldn't have powers. He might not be stapled to a mistraith, however. Hemalurgy can grant kandra allomancy but the process is unknown. This excludes Trellium, because this WoB is before SoS was released, and Harmony didn't know about Trellium yet. Spoiler NinjaMeTimbers What would happen if you gave [a mistwraith] a spike imbued with steel Allomancy? I'm assuming that wouldn't be enough to grant it sentience but could it then use steel powers? Can you give Allomantic powers to a kandra? Brandon Sanderson Hemalurgy can give Allomantic powers to a kandra. The process to do so is not known to anyone but Harmony. 17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, alder24 said: Hemalurgy can grant kandra allomancy but the process is unknown. This excludes Trellium, because this WoB is before SoS was released, and Harmony didn't know about Trellium yet. Reveal hidden contents NinjaMeTimbers What would happen if you gave [a mistwraith] a spike imbued with steel Allomancy? I'm assuming that wouldn't be enough to grant it sentience but could it then use steel powers? Can you give Allomantic powers to a kandra? Brandon Sanderson Hemalurgy can give Allomantic powers to a kandra. The process to do so is not known to anyone but Harmony. 17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012) That doesn't effect my point, but is good to think about. Do they need to have blanked identity when charging, or perhaps they need to spike a kandra with powers to give another kandra powers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alder24 Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: That doesn't effect my point, but is good to think about. Do they need to have blanked identity when charging, or perhaps they need to spike a kandra with powers to give another kandra powers. No, that WoB just tells you that we don't know if hemalurgy can't give Allomancy with a steel spike with some tweaks. Your point is based on speculation. It's the Blessings that make Kandra a Kandra. So I think that using Kandra's Blessing to add to it another hemalurgic charge containing powers might give powers to Kandra (it's possible to have a spike with multiple powers granting all those powers). But we don’t even know how Kandra’s Blessings are made. So this is pure speculation on my side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just now, alder24 said: No, that WoB just tells you that we don't know if hemalurgy can't give Allomancy with a steel spike with some tweaks. Your point is based on speculation. It's the Blessings that make Kandra a Kandra. So I think that using Kandra's Blessing to add to it another hemalurgic charge containing powers might give powers to Kandra (it's possible to have a spike with multiple powers granting all those powers). But we don’t even know how Kandra’s Blessings are made. So this is pure speculation on my side. My evidence was wrong, but simply substituting the WoB would fix that without changing my overal point (Kel can't get allomancy if a kandra via a base metal, since only sazed knows). We know kandra blessings are simply 2 of the same basic (8 basic not base, edited previous posts to fix) metal that grants abilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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