Friendshipspren Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 So feruchemical bendalloy stores nutrition. But nutrition can be metals too. Our body requires small amounts of iron , copper , etc to stay alive . So is it possible that someone who's a subsumer ferring can store metals in thier metal minds ? If so could that be how the lord ruler was so powerful at allomancy, he was constantly drawing duralumin and other metals from his bendalloy metalmind and duralumin bursting them constantly. The biggest hole in my theory is ofc that tlr didn't have access to bendalloy but maybe he had a little bit of bendalloy created during his ascension and used that bit to craft a metalmind . Thank you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted December 17, 2022 Report Share Posted December 17, 2022 13 hours ago, Friendshipspren said: So feruchemical bendalloy stores nutrition. But nutrition can be metals too. Our body requires small amounts of iron , copper , etc to stay alive . So is it possible that someone who's a subsumer ferring can store metals in thier metal minds ? Subsumers do store nutrition, but it is unlikely that they could store organic essential trace elements separate from the calories (or hydration) in which they were ingested. Quote If so could that be how the lord ruler was so powerful at allomancy, he was constantly drawing duralumin and other metals from his bendalloy metalmind and duralumin bursting them constantly. Even if trace metals(minerals) were stored as part of the calories or hydration I doubt it could store non-metabolized minerals. Also, there is no guarantee that, for example, organic copper matches Allomantic Copper (as the former would have impurities as a biological component; while the latter has to be elementally pure) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 18, 2022 Report Share Posted December 18, 2022 The Lord Ruler made himself that powerful via the Well of Ascension. Spoiler Leinton (paraphrased) Did Rashek use the Well or a bead of lerasium to become a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) He didn't know at first, I told him there were interviews with him saying both, and he eventually answered with "I'm canonizing it as he used the Well". https://wob.coppermind.net/events/63/#e685 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 9:33 AM, Treamayne said: there is no guarantee that, for example, organic copper matches Allomantic Copper (as the former would have impurities as a biological component; while the latter has to be elementally pure) This assertion is confusing. An element, by definition, is pure. The human body acquires copper atoms and uses them to build necessary proteins and enzymes; it does not matter what the source of the copper atoms is. Although... I guess you could make the argument that since copper doesn't react with stomach acid, the metal AS AN ELEMENT can't be a "nutrient". The nutrient source of copper atoms must be compounds (not necessarily organic ones, however). You can get all the nutritional iron and zinc you need by eating the elemental metals. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ookla of axi said: You can get all the nutritional iron and zinc you need by eating the elemental metals. Maybe there's an MD that can weigh in; but I doubt, for example, you would get similar nutritional Iron from a nail that you do from spinach. Also, half of the Allomantic metals are alloys that wouldn't, in any form, be considered "nutrition" with or without F-bendalloy; and some that are elemental metals (like cadmium) are definitely not nutritious. I don't know if you checked out the link I posted (wikipedia) but basically, the only allomantic metals that are also nutritional trace minerals are copper, zinc, iron and chromium. TLR would not have been able to store durlumin or the other 11 metals even if F-Bendalloy could store those four. This dialog leads me to a separate question(s) though. . . I wonder how often a Lurcher becomes an iron-deficient anemic through burning off their nutritional iron before it can be digested and incorporated into making blood. Similar deficiencies in copper, zinc, and chromium could have other health issues (such as chromium deficiency glucose intolerance). I feel like the Cosmere answer would need to be that nutritional trace elements are slightly different that their Allomantic equivalent - so while trace amounts of allomantic metals (like Vin's brass and pewter in Book 1) can come from eating utinsels and such, A-Iron need some in-world fundamental difference from nutritional iron to prevent Lurcher Anemia (and similar effects). Even if that difference is just "intent" (no known examples of somebody eating spinach with the intent of Lurching). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 15 minutes ago, Treamayne said: I doubt, for example, you would get similar nutritional Iron from a nail that you do from spinach. Depends on what you mean by "similar nutrition". Sure, iron compounds in foods are more readily bioavailable... but what I said was "you can get all the iron you need by eating iron", and I stand by it. Iron filings have been a common ingredient in breakfast cereals for decades; when I taught chemistry I did a demo in which a magnet collects the iron powder from a bowl of corn flakes. If you have enough iron filings in your diet (and it would not take much), you don't need to eat any spinach. An iron atom is an iron atom, and it makes no difference whether that atom came from a nail or a leaf. 22 minutes ago, Treamayne said: I feel like the Cosmere answer would need to be that nutritional trace elements are slightly different that their Allomantic equivalent - so while trace amounts of allomantic metals (like Vin's brass and pewter in Book 1) can come from eating utinsels and such, A-Iron need some in-world fundamental difference from nutritional iron... Here's where fantasy "science" gets problematic. I could argue that the observed fact of Vin getting useful allomantic metals from drinking water or utensils rules out the idea of "intent" in the production of the metal. And if the only "intent" that matters is that of the allomancer, then we are back to "an iron atom is an iron atom". But ultimately, the actual Cosmere answer will be whatever Brandon needs it to be to tell his stories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Ookla of axi said: Depends on what you mean by "similar nutrition". Sure, iron compounds in foods are more readily bioavailable... but what I said was "you can get all the iron you need by eating iron", and I stand by it. Iron filings have been a common ingredient in breakfast cereals for decades; when I taught chemistry I did a demo in which a magnet collects the iron powder from a bowl of corn flakes. If you have enough iron filings in your diet (and it would not take much), you don't need to eat any spinach. An iron atom is an iron atom, and it makes no difference whether that atom came from a nail or a leaf. Awesome, thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of transport (minerals as part of larger digestible molecules moving though intestinal walls) than at the atomic level; so I go hung up on the uptake (kind of how salt in a brine draws the water out of the meat, then as water moves back in the salt comes with it). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 14 minutes ago, Ookla of axi said: Here's where fantasy "science" gets problematic. I could argue that the observed fact of Vin getting useful allomantic metals from drinking water or utensils rules out the idea of "intent" in the production of the metal. And if the only "intent" that matters is that of the allomancer, then we are back to "an iron atom is an iron atom". But ultimately, the actual Cosmere answer will be whatever Brandon needs it to be to tell his stories. Wouldn't the iron in biomatter be bonded to other atoms, ruining its purity? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaRegia Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 20 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said: Wouldn't the iron in biomatter be bonded to other atoms, ruining its purity? Agreed, nobody is arguing that atoms in biomolecules are available for allomancy. Rather, we were discussing the reverse: could allomantic metals also be considered "nutrients"? Science + fantasy = weirdness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted December 20, 2022 Report Share Posted December 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Ookla of axi said: Agreed, nobody is arguing that atoms in biomolecules are available for allomancy. Rather, we were discussing the reverse: could allomantic metals also be considered "nutrients"? Oh, my bad. 2 minutes ago, Ookla of axi said: Science + fantasy = weirdness. Agreed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.