Which twinborn combo would you choose ?

[Friendshipspren Spinner]

So good non compounding twinborn combos. 

We have crashers ofc. But some others are :

A-chromium and F-steel,  to leech someone at superspeed. 

A-Electrum and F- zinc ,  to see your future shadows and to have the mental speed to analyse your future using it. Esp useful in a fight 

A-pewter and F-gold , become a Pewter savant without killing yourself , as well as combat Pewter drag and store more health quickly. 

A-pewter and F-steel, to beat someone up at superspeed and store more speed quickly. 

A-cadmium and F-chromium , to go to the future and be lucky enough to live as an immortal in a post mortality, post scarcity civilization 

Let me what others you can think of 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Friendshipspren

[Frustration Sliver]

Compounding has to go down to steel or gold, bronze is a contender too, but mostly for its feruchemy, as allomantically it has no use for me.

I decided to compound steel, as unless I die to sickness, I can stay alive just as easily with speed while solving my other problems, and steel has better allomantic applications.

For individual powers I took A-pewter, as it's just the best allomantic metal. And F-bronze.

 

[Friendshipspren Spinner]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Compounding has to go down to steel or gold, bronze is a contender too, but mostly for its feruchemy, as allomantically it has no use for me.

I decided to compound steel, as unless I die to sickness, I can stay alive just as easily with speed while solving my other problems, and steel has better allomantic applications.

For individual powers I took A-pewter, as it's just the best allomantic metal. And F-bronze.

 

U like a good  sleep-wake cycle eh ? 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Friendshipspren

[Frustration Sliver]

5 minutes ago, Friendshipspren said:

U like a good  sleep-wake cycle eh ? 

Wish I had one to be honest.

[JustQuestin2004 High Prelan]

In terms of 'if I was in the real world', for Compounding I'd be going for Chromium, since infinite luck can only be a good thing.

For Twinborn I'd go with A-Pewter, since it's not just a strength increase it's an everything increase, and F-Copper because of the sheer amount of information I could store from the internet. 

If I was 'Isekaing' myself into Era 2 Scadrial then for Compounding I'd go for double steel, not just for infinite super-speed mind you but also because of F-steel incresing the rate of you burning metals, which might amplify my Steelpushes kind of like Duralumin.

Here's a WOB for that.

Spoiler

ElephantEarwax

Would tapping Feruchemical speed cause you to burn metals faster as your whole body speeds up?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I think it probably would. I don't know if we've gotten to that interaction yet, but it probably would. Good question. If it's speeding up... Yeah, I think it would. Good question. If you're in a speed bubble and doing it, it's totally going to do it, and there's some analogies there.

For 'On Scadrial' Twinborn I'd for A-Steel and F-Nicrosil, since A-Steel is just really useful for a lot of things, while F-Nicrosil would open up a lot of potential doors for additional powers if I could figure out how it worked exactly.

Edit:

On second thought, if I was going 'Metaless', as in not trying to game the system with Nicrosil, then I'd choose F-Steel with A-Pewter just from how much they synergize with each other.

By Flaring Pewter all day everyday, you could store up far more speed in your Steelminds then you should be able to, and when you tap them your Burning rate for Pewter inceases, giving you more strength, speed and healing the more speed you tap.

It just fits really well together.

Edited December 17, 2022 by JustQuestin2004

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? Arteth]

A-pewter actually goes really well with F-Gold. You can probably power through the groginess of storing health by burning pewter, and thus have a lot more health reserves. Plus  A-Pewter lets you keep fighting despite mortal wounds, making it harder to incapacitate you while you heal. This would also be a great combination for worldhoppers, making yourself very good in a scrap, immune to exhaustion(Tapping Health probably offsets pewter drags), and near impossible to kill. Both metals should also be common, even on low tech worlds, though gold is a bit pricy, you aren't burning it, just keeping it on,(or in) you

[Friendshipspren Spinner]

14 hours ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

A-pewter actually goes really well with F-Gold. You can probably power through the groginess of storing health by burning pewter, and thus have a lot more health reserves. Plus  A-Pewter lets you keep fighting despite mortal wounds, making it harder to incapacitate you while you heal. This would also be a great combination for worldhoppers, making yourself very good in a scrap, immune to exhaustion(Tapping Health probably offsets pewter drags), and near impossible to kill. Both metals should also be common, even on low tech worlds, though gold is a bit pricy, you aren't burning it, just keeping it on,(or in) you

Oh yeah a bit of stored up health would be very useful for combating Pewter drag. Ye they synergize very well 

[JustQuestin2004 High Prelan]

14 hours ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

A-pewter actually goes really well with F-Gold. You can probably power through the groginess of storing health by burning pewter, and thus have a lot more health reserves. Plus  A-Pewter lets you keep fighting despite mortal wounds, making it harder to incapacitate you while you heal. This would also be a great combination for worldhoppers, making yourself very good in a scrap, immune to exhaustion(Tapping Health probably offsets pewter drags), and near impossible to kill. Both metals should also be common, even on low tech worlds, though gold is a bit pricy, you aren't burning it, just keeping it on,(or in) you

They do indeed go well together, it'd be superior to my now preferred combo of A-Pewter and F-Steel by one particular advantage. F-Gold heals Spiritual Wounds like from Shardblades while A-Pewter cannot.

I'd say that my 'Blitzer', that's what I'm calling a Twinborn with A-Pewter and F-Steel, would be more versatile. They'd be capable of storing far more speed by Flaring Pewter, then instead of Tapping all of their speed for one big burst they could just triple or quadruple it, which would greatly enhance the power gained from Flaring Pewter, which would not only result in them going even faster then they should be but also becoming more graceful, stronger, durable and other such benefits.

Still it'd take a lot of Pewter in the long term that Spook-Level Savantism is guaranteed, though maybe that isn't a totally bad thing as long as the Blitzer knew their limits and didn't go overboard.

[Tglassy Forger]

I picked the wrong one in the pole, but If I wasn't compounding, I'd go with Pewter/Gold, for reasons already stated.  Pewter is such an I Win button, and Gold counteracts the problems associated with flaring it too long.  You'd become a Pewter Savant VERY quickly.  If Pewter gives you twice the stats, so to speak, and therefore lets you heal twice as fast, then just store half that in Gold and you feel normal, you just don't heal as quick.  Stop storing and suddenly you're healing twice as fast.  Get injured too much?  Tap gold and heal it up.  Go on an extended pewter drag?  Tap healing at the end and you're good.  

Honestly, for comounding, I'd still pick Pewter over Gold, for real world practicality.  Yes, Gold is awesome. But how many times are you actually in danger or getting hurt?  Pewter will help with exhaustion and most pains, so you're getting decent healing with that, and resistant to damage to begin with, so for every day use, being super strong, fast, and have higher endurance and balance is just too good.  

And with double Pewter, you are literally as strong as you need to be in the moment.  It is my theory that if you burn pewter and store the extra strength in a Pewtermind, then when you tap that Pewtermind your muscles don't actually grow.  If that's the case, then if you then burn that pewtermind, you get 10x the strength without the resulting musclemass.  This means you can be infinitely strong, without the drawback of getting so big you can't move.  

HOWEVER, you can ALSO keep a pewtermind that DOES make you bigger, so you can always have the perrfect physique.  

But the inifinite at will strength is the main thing.  Normally, you'd just keep your regular Pewter enhanced strength.  Still great, but you're not crushing glasses just by touching them.  It isn't so much strength you can no longer function in society.  

But if you NEED that strength, you have it.  Gonna get hit by a car?  Increase strength by 100 for a few seconds, and the car gets crushed instead.  In fact, I'd imagine someone tapping infinite strength like this would be almost impossible to damage to begin with.  The muscles would be too strong to penetrate.  

Yeah.  Imma go with being Luke Cage on this one.  Double Pewter all the way.  

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? Arteth]

I feel that as a pewter savant, esp with compounding, you will see your natural muscles atrophe, as they are never challenged, causing your physique to rapidly deflate if you lose access to metals, like how TLR rapidly aged upon losing atium

[JustQuestin2004 High Prelan]

3 hours ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

I feel that as a pewter savant, esp with compounding, you will see your natural muscles atrophe, as they are never challenged, causing your physique to rapidly deflate if you lose access to metals, like how TLR rapidly aged upon losing atium

But A-Pewter doesn't replace your actual muscles, it just enables them to function to a much higher degree than they normally would.

Vin was Burning Pewter pretty much all the time in WoA, to help keep herself awake for days or weeks and she never got any atrophy. Either way neither she nor Kelsier, nor Hammond has ever said "If you Burn Pewter too long, you get weaker".

[Frustration Sliver]

5 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

But A-Pewter doesn't replace your actual muscles, it just enables them to function to a much higher degree than they normally would.

Vin was Burning Pewter pretty much all the time in WoA, to help keep herself awake for days or weeks and she never got any atrophy. Either way neither she nor Kelsier, nor Hammond has ever said "If you Burn Pewter too long, you get weaker".

They never said if you burned tin too long you would lose your senses either.

And Vin didn't burn near enough pewter to Savant.

[JustQuestin2004 High Prelan]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They never said if you burned tin too long you would lose your senses either.

So your saying that Pewter Savants suffer severe muscle atrophy when not Burning Pewter?

But didn't Sazed say that Pewter Savants just lose their sense of pain and exhaustion, thus dying when they push their bodies too far?

I feel like we would have known if Pewter-induced muscle atrophy was a thing by now. 

[Frustration Sliver]

4 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

So your saying that Pewter Savants suffer severe muscle atrophy when not Burning Pewter?

But didn't Sazed say that Pewter Savants just lose their sense of pain and exhaustion, thus dying when they push their bodies too far?

I feel like we would have known if Pewter-induced muscle atrophy was a thing by now. 

Savanthood went through a retcon around 2016, so it could be the case.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.

Argent

Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309/#e8115

 

 

 

 

 

 

And why would we know what pewter savants are like by now?

[JustQuestin2004 High Prelan]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Savanthood went through a retcon around 2016, so it could be the case.

  Hide contents

Brandon Sanderson

Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.

Argent

Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309/#e8115

 

 

 

 

 

 

And why would we know what pewter savants are like by now?

I dunno, I just feel like someone would have said something about it, like Kelsier talking about it when teaching Vin... Oh wait he says "Don't Flare your metals for too long, or your body may become dependent on it".

Oh you might be right.

[Tglassy Forger]

That's great...except that Feruchemical Pewter literally increases your muscle mass.  So...you have one Metalmind filied with Allomantic Pewter, and another filled with Feruchemical Pewter, and since it's ALL infinite due to compounding, even IF constantly burning pewter reduces your muscle mass, you just increase it with your other pewtermind.

But I don't think it would work that way.  If you constantly burned Pewter, you lose your sense of pain.  Pewter Savants are much stronger and harder to kill, but literally don't know when they're dying.  In fact, if their body were to become dependant on the Pewter, then what would happen if they ever stopped burning would be immediate effects of an insanely long Pewter drag, if not straight death.  That could def be an issue.

But the cool thing of being a Pewter Compounder is you only need to use the strength when you NEED to use the strength.  No need to go Savant.  You are strong enough in the moment to do whatever it is you need to do.  Gotta lift your car to get the keys under it?  You can do that.  Gotta bend steel bars for some strange reason?  You can do that.  Wanna hold up a bullet and squish it like superman?  You can do that.  But you don't have to ALWAYS be that strong.  

[Mistchemist16 Ardent]

1. I would do Steel compounding because it’s versatile and seems fun. Running around at the speed of a car or faster would be great. The Allomantic Steel doesn’t hurt either. Copper and Zinc are close seconds

2. Pewter. While I do think steel is better when mastered, pewter is versatile and easy to learn. That extra strength and other stuff wokis be handy. 

3. Duralumin. It seems like it’s easy to go without Connection for a time and filling a metalminds would make it easy to gain privacy. Since it’s so low cost, I could also store lots and have it available to win people over

 

Not sure what you would call a Pewter-Duralumin Twinborn. Commander perhaps? Because more militantly minded users could fight and rally their soldiers?