Identity of Kelsier's Body

[Gormatron]

So when I was reading Bands of Mourning I was under the impression that whoever made the bands (the Sovereign allegedly) must have had all 16 powers. Kelsier was only an allomancer though, so how did he get Feruchemy? I think that the name "Sovereign" was a hint, and that when Spook nailed Kelsier's cognitive shadow to a body, they specifically used the Lord Ruler's body. I have no evidence of this other than the name "Sovereign" and that it is a plausible solution for how the Bands were created. I haven't seen this discussed (please link if so) and made this account just to post this theory:

A few caveats:

• I have already returned my copy of Lost Metal to my local library but I wanted to cross-reference Marasi's physical description of Kelsier with physical descriptions of the Lord Ruler from era 1. This can only really only give confirmation though and not denial since its possible Kelsier has used many bodies over the years
  • (Side note what if the "Lord Ruler's Children" we heard about were genetically the lord ruler's but actually Kelsier's so he could have a line of strong allomancers/feruchemists to continue possessing. This seems really out there but I thought of it while typing and now this idea is just out there for anyone to see. Do we have any WoB about when these children were born?).
• Is allomancy part of the physical, cognitive, or spiritual self? I.e. since Kelsier was a Mistborn does any body his soul becomes attached to gain the ability of an allomancer just like if someone actually spiked Kelsier to a person or does he only have whatever metallic arts his host body has?
• Why would he have scars at the end of BoM if it wasn't his own body?

This is more of a "what-if" and me asking some cosmere questions than a strongly supported theory but would love to hear what others think.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Gormatron
added third bullet.

[AquaRegia]

I don't have any actual answers to any of your questions; in fact, I'm a bit disillusioned myself at how many questions tLM didn't answer, and how many new ones it posed.  Just a few thoughts:

It is strongly implied that Kelsier has NO allomancy or feruchemy in his current form.  If true, he could not have made the Bands.  We're all confused by this.

It seems very unlikely to me that Rashek's body survived post-Catacendre.  I think he literally turned to dust when 1000 years of Atium compounding caught up with him.  Plus, I can't think of any reason Harmony would have wanted that thing around.

I got the impression that the Kelsier that Marasi saw looked just like Era 1 Kelsier.  The most popular idea here is that he made a body using his actual bones (canonically saved by OreSeur) and a nonsentient mistwraith body.  Intent, Identity, and self-image are very important in Cognitive Shadow situations, which means he'd have the scars because he sees himself as The Lord of Scars.

[Trusk'our]

I'm also confused as to who made the Bands of Mourning, as it almost certainly wasn't Kelsier. He doesn't even have access to one of the Metallic arts currently and is searching for a way to regain access. Even if he had made the Bands in the past somehow, he doesn't seem like the kind of person to leave that kind of power behind for someone else to grab.

whoever made the Bands is likely not someone we know. Or it was Spook. that's the one guess I've got.

After all, it is confirmed that Rashek did not create the Bands, and Kelsier almost certainly didn't, and Marsh didn't (he doesn't even have all the powers, nor does he fit the description of the Sovereign). But Spook had some Hemalurgic spikes to play around with and is a natural Mistborn by the end of era 1, so it could potentially be him.

Quote

Questioner

So I've always wondered, the Bands of Mourning, the actual spearhead that Wax uses. Was that made by the Lord Ruler or the Sovereign, or--

Brandon Sanderson

No. It was not made by the Lord Ruler. The Sovereign was involved.

But most likely, the Sovereign is some character we haven't met yet.

I wonder who they are?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Trusk'our

[offer]

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm also confused as to who made the Bands of Mourning, as it almost certainly wasn't Kelsier. He doesn't even have access to one of the Metallic arts currently and is searching for a way to regain access. Even if he had made the Bands in the past somehow, he doesn't seem like the kind of person to leave that kind of power behind for someone else to grab.

whoever made the Bands is likely not someone we know. Or it was Spook. that's the one guess I've got.

After all, it is confirmed that Rashek did not create the Bands, and Kelsier almost certainly didn't, and Marsh didn't (he doesn't even have all the powers, nor does he fit the description of the Sovereign). But Spook had some Hemalurgic spikes to play around with and is a natural Mistborn by the end of era 1, so it could potentially be him.

But most likely, the Sovereign is some character we haven't met yet.

I wonder who they are?

The sovereign is clearly Kelsier from the end of BOM. 

The WoB you quated says he was involved, not that he created them - probably as you say the main maker of the bands was someone we don`t know about (or spook, I hope it is spook).

[The Sovereign]

A couple of relevant WOBs:

Quote

Questioner

At the end of the last Wax and Wayne book, which I love, that statue that they though was the Lord Ruler. It was Kelsier.

Brandon Sanderson

That was Kelsier.

Questioner

Ok. I thought so, because the way the other thing ended with the eye, the eye thing was throwing me off and then I went and grabbed the secret thing and I was like "No that can't..."

Brandon Sanderson

That is Kelsier.

Questioner

And will we find out more in the next Wax and Wayne book or do we need to wait and find out more later?

Brandon Sanderson

You will find out more in the Wax and Wayne book, really that that's going on there is foreshadowing for era 3, and for future Secret History stories if I do them. So the Wax and Wayne books are not about the return of Kelsier, but the return of Kelsier is very important for later things in the series.

Arcanum Unbounded Seattle signing (Dec. 1, 2016)

 

Quote

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning, we learned that the Sovereign, who they confused as being the Lord Ruler, came after the Catacendre. [He] was their god, was their king and god. And then Kelsier looking for a string. Is the spike somehow connecting Kelsier's soul to Spook's body.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question. It is connecting his soul with his body, his current body, but it is not Spook's body. That's a great theory.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by The Sovereign

[alder24]

WoBs about original question about identity of Kelsier's body:

Spoiler

Questioner

With regards to certain experiments, would it be fair to say Ishar and a certain Scadrian have similar goals? 

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitation noises* I don't know that I would say that 100%. The certain Scadrian you reference has been able to achieve the goals that he wants. Let's see if I can circumlocute this: there's a certain set of bones floating around that already has a Connection to this individual, which was useful in achieving what he wanted to do, which is not a luxury that Ishar has. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Where did the body Kelsier is using come from?

Brandon Sanderson

That’s actually a RAFO. You will find out about that, probably in a Secret History, if I get to it. Eventually, I’ll answer that question for people. I don’t want to answer it now, because it is something I could put into a book.

Questioner

I just realized that his body, most of it was gone. The bones might still be around.

Brandon Sanderson

The bones were in use, and were in Hero of Ages. The bones had made an appearance. They were still around, but whether that’s what he’s using, I’ll leave.

Questioner

I didn’t think putting a spike into his skull [...]

Brandon Sanderson

You’ll find that out eventually.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017)

 

Spoiler

rxience (paraphrased)

Would a single spike be sufficient to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that could happen.

rxience (paraphrased)

Did that happen in the past?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. Who are you thinking about?

rxience (paraphrased)

Kelsier of course!

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, he is somehow in the Physical Realm. And he does look like himself, doesn't he?

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

So Kel's body is most likely mistwraith who ate his own bones. But this body is not his so it doesn't have connection to allomancy.

About who is the Sovereign - it's Kelsier - the temple in New Seran was built by him, Wax&co. thought at first that the Sovereign is the Lord Ruler, so when they saw the statue in front of the temple, they assumed that's Rashek. But we know this is the statue of Kelsier. And it was the Sovereign who saved Malwish and taught them how to make medallions, we saw that in Wax's coppermind. So at this moment we can be quite sure that the Sovereign is Kelsier. And Brandon said that there is a simple answer to the question who is the Sovereign:

Spoiler

Questioner

The Sovereign...

Brandon Sanderson

Mhm.

Questioner

...has a <nail> in his eye. Which eye is *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

I am going to RAFO that one. Just in case.

Questioner

Has Bloody Tan seen the Sovereign?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs* So... here's the thing-- and this is why I'm RAFO-ing these, it's not because of what you think. I'm RAFO-ing these because these the nature of the Sovereign, and who they call the Sovereign, and these sorts of things is stuff that I want to potentially leave for Secret History 2-- or for [Secret History] 3, if I write more Secret Histories. So the answers are probably simple, right? And they're not ones that are gonna be mind blowing. But I don't want to lock myself down until I've written those, which is why I'm RAFO-ing most of the questions dealing with this, okay?

*a moment later Brandon overhears continued conversation about Secret History*

So, oh, you were asking it that specific way to not give spoilers to someone here? Yeah, I see what you're doing. I see-- I thought you were trying to wiggle out of me something that you weren't trying to wiggle out of me.

Questioner

Not everyone here has read...

Brandon Sanderson

I get it, I get it. I see what's going on.

Questioner

We're not trying to be that *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, okay. I was misinterpreting the intent of those questions a little bit. Yes, being very tricky. Okay. 

*pauses to sign a book*

So the answer of which spike is it? I can answer that one? *interruption* Or really I can tell you--it's in my notes, and I don't have them, but it's not particularly relevant--it's the opposite side of the one where Death's skull was crushed. 

Questioner

Oh, yes. Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

They would look like mirror images if you saw them.

White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016)

 

[StormingTexan]

I feel like it had to have been Spook and Kelsier together. Mainly because of the ending of MBSH. I am assuming we may find out more in Era 3 but honestly this did bother me that this became such a mystery after TLM. Really hoping we get a MBSH2 but we will see. 

[Trusk'our]

18 hours ago, alder24 said:

WoBs about original question about identity of Kelsier's body:

  Hide contents

Questioner

With regards to certain experiments, would it be fair to say Ishar and a certain Scadrian have similar goals? 

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitation noises* I don't know that I would say that 100%. The certain Scadrian you reference has been able to achieve the goals that he wants. Let's see if I can circumlocute this: there's a certain set of bones floating around that already has a Connection to this individual, which was useful in achieving what he wanted to do, which is not a luxury that Ishar has. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

  Hide contents

Questioner

Where did the body Kelsier is using come from?

Brandon Sanderson

That’s actually a RAFO. You will find out about that, probably in a Secret History, if I get to it. Eventually, I’ll answer that question for people. I don’t want to answer it now, because it is something I could put into a book.

Questioner

I just realized that his body, most of it was gone. The bones might still be around.

Brandon Sanderson

The bones were in use, and were in Hero of Ages. The bones had made an appearance. They were still around, but whether that’s what he’s using, I’ll leave.

Questioner

I didn’t think putting a spike into his skull [...]

Brandon Sanderson

You’ll find that out eventually.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017)

 

  Hide contents

rxience (paraphrased)

Would a single spike be sufficient to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that could happen.

rxience (paraphrased)

Did that happen in the past?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. Who are you thinking about?

rxience (paraphrased)

Kelsier of course!

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, he is somehow in the Physical Realm. And he does look like himself, doesn't he?

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

So Kel's body is most likely mistwraith who ate his own bones. But this body is not his so it doesn't have connection to allomancy.

 

Ah! That makes sense. I wonder he used Trellium spikes if he'd be able to gain access to Invested powers, since those grant Allomancy and Feruchemy to Kandra.

This also would likely mean that Kelsier has at least one other spike somewhere in his body, or else he shouldn't be sapient.

[Trusk'our]

20 hours ago, offer said:

The sovereign is clearly Kelsier from the end of BOM. 

The WoB you quated says he was involved, not that he created them - probably as you say the main maker of the bands was someone we don`t know about (or spook, I hope it is spook).

 

19 hours ago, alder24 said:

WoBs about original question about identity of Kelsier's body:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

With regards to certain experiments, would it be fair to say Ishar and a certain Scadrian have similar goals? 

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitation noises* I don't know that I would say that 100%. The certain Scadrian you reference has been able to achieve the goals that he wants. Let's see if I can circumlocute this: there's a certain set of bones floating around that already has a Connection to this individual, which was useful in achieving what he wanted to do, which is not a luxury that Ishar has. 

JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Where did the body Kelsier is using come from?

Brandon Sanderson

That’s actually a RAFO. You will find out about that, probably in a Secret History, if I get to it. Eventually, I’ll answer that question for people. I don’t want to answer it now, because it is something I could put into a book.

Questioner

I just realized that his body, most of it was gone. The bones might still be around.

Brandon Sanderson

The bones were in use, and were in Hero of Ages. The bones had made an appearance. They were still around, but whether that’s what he’s using, I’ll leave.

Questioner

I didn’t think putting a spike into his skull [...]

Brandon Sanderson

You’ll find that out eventually.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

rxience (paraphrased)

Would a single spike be sufficient to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that could happen.

rxience (paraphrased)

Did that happen in the past?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. Who are you thinking about?

rxience (paraphrased)

Kelsier of course!

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well, he is somehow in the Physical Realm. And he does look like himself, doesn't he?

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

So Kel's body is most likely mistwraith who ate his own bones. But this body is not his so it doesn't have connection to allomancy.

About who is the Sovereign - it's Kelsier - the temple in New Seran was built by him, Wax&co. thought at first that the Sovereign is the Lord Ruler, so when they saw the statue in front of the temple, they assumed that's Rashek. But we know this is the statue of Kelsier. And it was the Sovereign who saved Malwish and taught them how to make medallions, we saw that in Wax's coppermind. So at this moment we can be quite sure that the Sovereign is Kelsier. And Brandon said that there is a simple answer to the question who is the Sovereign:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

The Sovereign...

Brandon Sanderson

Mhm.

Questioner

...has a <nail> in his eye. Which eye is *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

I am going to RAFO that one. Just in case.

Questioner

Has Bloody Tan seen the Sovereign?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs* So... here's the thing-- and this is why I'm RAFO-ing these, it's not because of what you think. I'm RAFO-ing these because these the nature of the Sovereign, and who they call the Sovereign, and these sorts of things is stuff that I want to potentially leave for Secret History 2-- or for [Secret History] 3, if I write more Secret Histories. So the answers are probably simple, right? And they're not ones that are gonna be mind blowing. But I don't want to lock myself down until I've written those, which is why I'm RAFO-ing most of the questions dealing with this, okay?

*a moment later Brandon overhears continued conversation about Secret History*

So, oh, you were asking it that specific way to not give spoilers to someone here? Yeah, I see what you're doing. I see-- I thought you were trying to wiggle out of me something that you weren't trying to wiggle out of me.

Questioner

Not everyone here has read...

Brandon Sanderson

I get it, I get it. I see what's going on.

Questioner

We're not trying to be that *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, okay. I was misinterpreting the intent of those questions a little bit. Yes, being very tricky. Okay. 

*pauses to sign a book*

So the answer of which spike is it? I can answer that one? *interruption* Or really I can tell you--it's in my notes, and I don't have them, but it's not particularly relevant--it's the opposite side of the one where Death's skull was crushed. 

Questioner

Oh, yes. Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

They would look like mirror images if you saw them.

White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016)

 

 

17 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

I feel like it had to have been Spook and Kelsier together. Mainly because of the ending of MBSH. I am assuming we may find out more in Era 3 but honestly this did bother me that this became such a mystery after TLM. Really hoping we get a MBSH2 but we will see. 

Okay, so it probably was Spook and Kelsier working together, possibly with the help of a Feruchemist, to create the Bands of Mourning. Perhaps Spook wanted to secret away the Bands because he thought that they contained too much power for any one person to hold. Unless the situation was truely dire, which would be why he would have told the Southern Scadrian's about their existence (or they figured it out on their own).

Kelsier is the Sovereign and would have been involved in their creation then, but maybe couldn't even use them, since he has the body of a Kandra (can Kandra tap Unsealed Metalminds?).

Edited February 8, 2023 by Trusk'our

[alder24]

43 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Ah! That makes sense. I wonder he used Trellium spikes if he'd be able to gain access to Invested powers, since those grant Allomancy and Feruchemy to Kandra.

This also would likely mean that Kelsier has at least one other spike somewhere in his body, or else he shouldn't be sapient.

Kelsier has a steel spike in his eye.

And he doesn't have to have more. Kandra are hemalurgic constructs, Kelsier is not, he just stamples his soul (and mind) to a body. He doesn't need anything more than a single nail. Mistwraiths are different, they need 2 spikes to overcome the blockage between the PR and the CR.

Quote

NinjaMeTimbers

How intelligent is a mistwraith? Could you raise and train mistwraiths like dogs or horses, controlling what forms they take by the bones you give them? Would you be able to train yourself a horsewraith steed by giving it only the bones of a horse?

Brandon Sanderson

This is feasible. One thing to keep in mind is that mistwraiths are people who have a blockage between the Physical and the Cognitive Realm, messing with their ability to think. Think of them as mentally-stunted people. There's enough there to train, but then you have to dig into the ethics of it...

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

What I want to know is of that poor mistwraiths is still aware. Is this essentially Cosmere possession?

 

39 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Okay, so it probably was Spook and Kelsier working together, possibly with the help of a Feruchemist, to create the Bands of Mourning. Perhaps Spook wanted to secret away the Bands because he thought that they contained too much power for any one person to hold. Unless the situation was truely dire, which would be why he would have told the Southern Scadrian's about their existence (or they figured it out on their own).

Kelsier is the Sovereign and would have been involved in their creation then, but maybe couldn't even use them, since he has the body of a Kandra (can Kandra tap Unsealed Metalminds?).

Yes, Feruchemist had to be involved, or multiple ferrings. And the Malwish knew about the Bands, they were made before Kelsier left after ruling over them for some time, and took them with him - that's what Allik told in BoM.

I think Kandra can use medallions, because they can get metalic arts from hemalurgy or get it from Lerasium. But I think it might be because Kelsier's body and spirit/mind are not aligned, doesn't have any connections between body and spirit besides a spike. Tbf I don't know we have any confirmation if Kelsier can use medallions, in the epilogue of TLM he said that even Lerasium wouldn't work on him, so I don't know if he couldn't use Bands at all. However he teach somehow Malwish how to make medallions so it seems unlikely.

Spoiler

Jason Wright

If a kandra eats a bead of lerasium, can he burn it? Alternatively can he gain Allomancy via Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes on both counts.

Goodreads: Ask the Author Q&A (Aug. 13, 2014)

 

[Returned]

25 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Tbf I don't know we have any confirmation if Kelsier can use medallions, in the epilogue of TLM he said that even Lerasium wouldn't work on him, so I don't know if he couldn't use Bands at all.

The memory in the coin at the end of Bands of Mourning was clearly Kelsier's, right? If so, that would be definitive proof that he can use a medallion.

[alder24]

8 minutes ago, Returned said:

The memory in the coin at the end of Bands of Mourning was clearly Kelsier's, right? If so, that would be definitive proof that he can use a medallion.

Yes, that is the proof. Unless he had Breath, store there that memory, give it to a copper ferring who made a coppermind. Very unlikely, so he can use them.

[Trusk'our]

4 minutes ago, Returned said:

The memory in the coin at the end of Bands of Mourning was clearly Kelsier's, right? If so, that would be definitive proof that he can use a medallion.

Huh. True. So Kelsier probably could have used the Bands of Mourning. 

Makes me wonder why he would be willing to give up the Bands of Mourning, seeing as he is so desperate to control the metals again by the end of TLM.

 

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think Kandra can use medallions, because they can get metalic arts from hemalurgy or get it from Lerasium. But I think it might be because Kelsier's body and spirit/mind are not aligned, doesn't have any connections between body and spirit besides a spike. Tbf I don't know we have any confirmation if Kelsier can use medallions, in the epilogue of TLM he said that even Lerasium wouldn't work on him, so I don't know if he couldn't use Bands at all. However he teach somehow Malwish how to make medallions so it seems unlikely.

  Hide contents

Jason Wright

If a kandra eats a bead of lerasium, can he burn it? Alternatively can he gain Allomancy via Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes on both counts.

Goodreads: Ask the Author Q&A (Aug. 13, 2014)

 

Okay, then having a Kandra body wouldn't affect Kelsier's ability to access his Allomancy or Hemalurgically granted powers. So it's still probably related to him being a Cognitive Shadow, and possibly because his body doesn't have a good Connection to his spirit?

I get the feeling that I'm just going around in circles. I don't think I'm going to understand why Kelsier can't use his Allomancy until Brandon tells us why.

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Okay, then having a Kandra body wouldn't affect Kelsier's ability to access his Allomancy or Hemalurgically granted powers. So it's still probably related to him being a Cognitive Shadow, and possibly because his body doesn't have a good Connection to his spirit?

I get the feeling that I'm just going around in circles. I don't think I'm going to understand why Kelsier can't use his Allomancy until Brandon tells us why.

Yeah, we don't truly know why, so we are going in circles. I think it is because Allomancy is a physical ability(in SH he couldn't burn metals as a CS), so the body needs to have a connection to it to burn metal. Kelsier is only spirit and mind, these have connection to Allomancy, as his spiritual DNA has it coded in, but his body is dead, and he uses the body of somebody else, that body doesn't have that connection to Allomancy, so Kelsier can't burn metals. This is how I understand it.

9 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Makes me wonder why he would be willing to give up the Bands of Mourning, seeing as he is so desperate to control the metals again by the end of TLM.

Yes, that is interesting. I think Kelsier wants to give power to people much more than he wants to have Allomancy back. Bands might have been a dead end, it's hard to make them, hard to fill them etc. So he can popularize them. Maybe that's why he left them? Or maybe he left them to make sure Malwish and the Basin met each other, as there were legends of Bands in the Basin somehow, somebody had to spread them out.

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

 

 

Okay, so it probably was Spook and Kelsier working together, possibly with the help of a Feruchemist, to create the Bands of Mourning. Perhaps Spook wanted to secret away the Bands because he thought that they contained too much power for any one person to hold. Unless the situation was truely dire, which would be why he would have told the Southern Scadrian's about their existence (or they figured it out on their own).

Kelsier is the Sovereign and would have been involved in their creation then, but maybe couldn't even use them, since he has the body of a Kandra (can Kandra tap Unsealed Metalminds?).

Yeah, I think "the Sovereign was involved" is worded that way because Kelsier likely *designed* them (with Sliver-expanded mind) but didn't have the powers to *make* them personally. Spook provided the Allomantic powers, and presumably recruited a Full Feruchemist to provide rhe Feruchemical ones (they likely were still around in the first post-Catacendre generation, since it's the mixing of Allomantic and Feruchemical bloodlines that broke the powers up to create Ferrings).

[Stigmadiabolicum]

On 2/8/2023 at 8:32 AM, alder24 said:

Yes, Feruchemist had to be involved, or multiple ferrings. And the Malwish knew about the Bands, they were made before Kelsier left after ruling over them for some time, and took them with him - that's what Allik told in BoM.

 

So it definitely had to be a fullborn, not mistings or ferrings all chipping in, that's why the Malwish couldn't just make more easily. Wax asks him that and he snarkily says oh man she didn't we ever try that? 

They max out quickly once it gets to 2/3 powers doing it piecemeal, the only way to make one like the bands is instilling it with all the powers at once. I could maybe see like a Mistborn and full ferochemist working together, each adding a power set so it's only "used" twice, but that's a stretch. 

Since spook was such a beloved emperor i could see people being on board with his idea to get spiked before death to not lose the powers, but even then you'd only get mistings and ferrings since he's not going to make full Marsh level people

So since we know Kel has no powers it's a big mystery where the hell he found a fullborn, why the hell they left the bands there, why he hooked up the Malwish with the unsealed tech but not elendel.. 

Since era 2 was unplanned most of his kel plot was meant for era 3 so I'm just looking at all this as bonus set up and foreshadowing and we'll get answers then 

 

 

[alder24]

12 minutes ago, Stigmadiabolicum said:

So it definitely had to be a fullborn, not mistings or ferrings all chipping in, that's why the Malwish couldn't just make more easily. Wax asks him that and he snarkily says oh man she didn't we ever try that? 

Wax asked Allik about making medallions with more than 3 sets of powers, and about wearing multiple medallions, not about creating the Bands. But you can craft medallions just by using Mistings and Ferrings, the Bands might be different - or not.

Spoiler

Yata

If you have 32 Misting and Ferring, every kind possible, without using Hemalurgy, you can craft a medallion? Without the aftermath of the--

Brandon Sanderson

So could you craft a medallion... without-- oh. That should be possible, but this is one of the things where I have to dig out the notes and double-check myself. But this should be possible.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

15 minutes ago, Stigmadiabolicum said:

They max out quickly once it gets to 2/3 powers doing it piecemeal, the only way to make one like the bands is instilling it with all the powers at once. I could maybe see like a Mistborn and full ferochemist working together, each adding a power set so it's only "used" twice, but that's a stretch. 

There is also a difference in how nicrosil in medallions works, and how it works in the Bands. In medallions it is similar to how copperminds work and don't get used up, but in the Bands it was noted by Wax that Nicrosil is getting used up and soon they might need to compound it to get it back. 

Spoiler

Calderis

Does the nicrosil portion of the medallions function identitically to how a Soulbearer Ferring would use Nicrosil? 

Brandon Sanderson

Not exactly. The medallion is a little more restrictive, for one thing.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 31, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Pagerunner

When you tap the nicrosil portion of a medallion, will it run out over time? Or is it like a coppermind, where something discrete is taken, used, and returned?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question! Like a coppermind.

General Signed Books 2018 (Oct. 15, 2018)

So theoretically, if the first ability added to the nicrosilmind in the Bands was the Feruchemical nicrosil, then you can give it to all 31 Mistings and Ferrings who would tap it, gain  ability to use nicrosilminds and store their own power there, give back F-nicrosil and pass the Bands to next Misting/Ferring.

21 minutes ago, Stigmadiabolicum said:

Since spook was such a beloved emperor i could see people being on board with his idea to get spiked before death to not lose the powers, but even then you'd only get mistings and ferrings since he's not going to make full Marsh level people

Spook might be alive:

Spoiler

Questioner

Is Spook alive?

Brandon Sanderson

There is more story to Spook. I won't confirm that he's dead or alive... If I write Secret History 2, there will be some Spook stuff. That's all I can say.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 23, 2017)

 

23 minutes ago, Stigmadiabolicum said:

So since we know Kel has no powers it's a big mystery where the hell he found a fullborn, why the hell they left the bands there, why he hooked up the Malwish with the unsealed tech but not elendel.. 

Surely no Fullborn was involved! But those are good questions. I don't believe Kelsier placed the Bands in that temple, I think they were stolen from him. Kelsier wants to popularize metal arts, so placing the tool that gives them to everyone in a remote place doesn't make sense. The only reason he might have done that is because he wanted to lead to early discovery of Malwish and Basin, and spark conflict that would encourage technological progress. And Kels had to give Malwish medallion tech, otherwise they would have died!

 

[Trusk'our]

22 hours ago, alder24 said:

Spook might be alive:

  Hide contents

Questioner

Is Spook alive?

Brandon Sanderson

There is more story to Spook. I won't confirm that he's dead or alive... If I write Secret History 2, there will be some Spook stuff. That's all I can say.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 23, 2017)

 

I don't think so, actually.

When Marsh meets up with Wax and the gang in TLM he mentions that of the original crew only he, Kelsier, and Sazed are still around and kicking.

I suppose that he might have been lying, but I don't see why he would.

[alder24]

12 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I don't think so, actually.

When Marsh meets up with Wax and the gang in TLM he mentions that of the original crew only he, Kelsier, and Sazed are still around and kicking.

I suppose that he might have been lying, but I don't see why he would.

Right:

Quote

He’s less alive than I am, but perhaps more than other ghosts? It’s hard to say. Three of us remain from that original crew. After all this time. Only three. Legs to a tripod, balancing one another. And without one ... I do not know what would happen.”

It likely means he's dead. But maybe there is a slim chance that he's a Worldhopper now? Or he just separated himself from the crew and its godly affairs?

[Trusk'our]

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It likely means he's dead. But maybe there is a slim chance that he's a Worldhopper now? Or he just separated himself from the crew and its godly affairs?

I mean, it might be possible. I just don't think that it's very likely.

Plus, I think that it is okay to not have him still alive. He fulfilled his "awesomeness" quota already and I don't know how he would handle living for centuries after his wife and dozen or so children had passed away. Additionally, we'll almost certainly see more of him in SH two (I don't see how we wouldn't), so there would be more for him to do even if he wasn't still alive in modern Scadrial.

But that's personal opinion, not fact, so I respect it if others disagree with such a sentiment.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Trusk'our