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Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

Szeth_Pancakes

By Szeth_Pancakes
in Sanderson Elimination

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Szeth_Pancakes
Szeth_Pancakes

Important note: This ruleset was written before Cytonic and the novellas. Think of this game as an alternate continuity of sorts.  The UrDail, in collaboration with the DDF and using M-Bot’s hol

Amanuensis
Amanuensis

I'll sign up as Amanuensis.

Kasimir
Kasimir

Wow bro you sign up for Aman but not for me?  

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Devotary of Spontaneity

Devotary of Spontaneity

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

"How about a game of pazaak, friend?" Illvin asked, casually, shuffling his deck.

He wasn't sure he knew this interloper, but he figured he could do with playing a game of pazaak during his break.

And everyone liked pazaak, didn't they?

Not like those godless souls going on about poker or blackjack, or Lady Fortune forbid, some newfangled invention he'd never the least heard of known as sabacc.

:ph34r:

Kalli: I find the most interesting part of pazaak is that many virtual decks are modified to hit twenty far more often than random chance would allow. Physical decks lacking this ability makes the game less enjoyable.

         : What does that mean?

With four cards each numbering 1-10 in the main deck, the odds of hitting the goal of twenty should be purely based on what cards are still available. If the first three cards drawn in a round are 4, 7, 2, the odds of getting another 7 for a total of 20 should be 3/37. Yet it's commonplace for the odds of drawing a 7 in this scenario to be far higher than that. My favorite variant gives a second chance so long as the player's total is at least 10. In this case, it would randomly select a card and play it if it was a 7. If not, a second card would be drawn and played instead.

Should a player's total be at least ten with at least five cards played including side cards, a third chance is given. Say that even with the increased odds, this player drew an 8 to bust at 21 and used a -3 side card to save the round. 18 is greater than 10 and with five cards played, the odds of getting a 2 increase from 3/36 ~= 8.333% to 1 - (33/36*32/35*31/34) ~= 23.6%.

             :❗⚠️

Exactly! This variant can be easily adapted to physical decks by simply drawing two or three cards as needed and shuffling the deck afterwards. Additionally, this variant encourages greater risk by incentivizing players to keep drawing even when they already have high totals, which in turn makes it more important to bring side cards that reduce your hand's value or turn all drawn cards of a certain value negative for that round. I find all of this more interesting than standing on hands in the mid-teens and and occasionally using a positive side-card to boost them closer to 20.

So are we going to play?

Not yet. Pazaak is traditionally a two player game and since those two have already started playing, we have to wait for another interested player or for them to invite me. While we wait, we can practice with the solitaire version.

Edited by Devotary of Spontaneity
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Kasimir

Kasimir

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Not yet. Pazaak is traditionally a two player game and since those two have already started playing, we have to wait for another interested player or for them to invite me. While we wait, we can practice with the solitaire version.

"We could play group pazaak," Illvin drawled. 

He knew the feeling, lurking around, looking in. Pazaak was pretty addictive after all. Knew a granny down the block who beat him at it hands down each time, over lunch break. He figured he'd learn her tricks one day.

"DPS rules, even."

'Course, that meant making it up as you go along, with a handy amount of table shuffling and carefully curated exclamations, but he wasn't sure everyone needed to know that.

Edited by Kasimir
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Kasimir

Kasimir

Posted
Posted
Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Note that all of this conversation is happening internally, since Kalli,          , and               are all one dione.

Let me edit this. Good time to admit I have forgotten everything of Starsight, hence pazaak.

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Szeth_Pancakes

Szeth_Pancakes

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Kalli: I find the most interesting part of pazaak is that many virtual decks are modified to hit twenty far more often than random chance would allow. Physical decks lacking this ability makes the game less enjoyable.

         : What does that mean?

With four cards each numbering 1-10 in the main deck, the odds of hitting the goal of twenty should be purely based on what cards are still available. If the first three cards drawn in a round are 4, 7, 2, the odds of getting another 7 for a total of 20 should be 3/37. Yet it's commonplace for the odds of drawing a 7 in this scenario to be far higher than that. My favorite variant gives a second chance so long as the player's total is at least 10. In this case, it would randomly select a card and play it if it was a 7. If not, a second card would be drawn and played instead.

Should a player's total be at least ten with at least five cards played including side cards, a third chance is given. Say that even with the increased odds, this player drew an 8 to bust at 21 and used a -3 side card to save the round. 18 is greater than 10 and with five cards played, the odds of getting a 2 increase from 3/36 ~= 8.333% to 1 - (33/36*32/35*31/34) ~= 23.6%.

             :❗⚠️

Exactly! This variant can be easily adapted to physical decks by simply drawing two or three cards as needed and shuffling the deck afterwards. Additionally, this variant encourages greater risk by incentivizing players to keep drawing even when they already have high totals, which in turn makes it more important to bring side cards that reduce your hand's value or turn all drawn cards of a certain value negative for that round. I find all of this more interesting than standing on hands in the mid-teens and and occasionally using a positive side-card to boost them closer to 20.

So are we going to play?

Not yet. Pazaak is traditionally a two player game and since those two have already started playing, we have to wait for another interested player or for them to invite me. While we wait, we can practice with the solitaire version.

Does this mean you’ll be taking up three colors in the dead doc?

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Haelbarde

Haelbarde

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Haelbarde said:

Ah whatever, I'm on break. Deal me in. I'll try discover who I am as we go. :ph34r:

[Enter Hal Vanicus]

8 hours ago, Kasimir said:

"How about a game of pazaak, friend?" Illvin asked, casually, shuffling his deck.

He wasn't sure he knew this interloper, but he figured he could do with playing a game of pazaak during his break.

And everyone liked pazaak, didn't they?

Not like those godless souls going on about poker or blackjack, or Lady Fortune forbid, some newfangled invention he'd never the least heard of known as sabacc.

:ph34r:

 

8 hours ago, Ookla the Myopic said:

A pit droid walking by suddenly stops, the odor of burning smoke envelops it and it walks over to Illvin.

The droid's voice is melodic and seems to come from above it's head.

"You can deal me in, Illvin wasn't it?"

 

4 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

So are we going to play?

Not yet. Pazaak is traditionally a two player game and since those two have already started playing, we have to wait for another interested player or for them to invite me. While we wait, we can practice with the solitaire version.

 

4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

"We could play group pazaak," Illvin drawled. 

He knew the feeling, lurking around, looking in. Pazaak was pretty addictive after all. Knew a granny down the block who beat him at it hands down each time, over lunch break. He figured he'd learn her tricks one day.

"DPS rules, even."

'Course, that meant making it up as you go along, with a handy amount of table shuffling and carefully curated exclamations, but he wasn't sure everyone needed to know that.

"Seems we have ourselves here a full Pazaak tournament just waiting to happen. Don't mind some DPS rules myself. Figure we can either do individual matches, or we do one longer games as all 4 of us play each other at the same time. Don't mind what we do, but mind if I start us off?"

Hal got out of his long coat two decks of cards. Shuffling the smaller side deck first, he dealt himself out 4 cards. Then after shuffling the larger main deck, he dealt the first card face up to himself. It was a 1.

"I end my turn".

Hal's Playing Field

Spoiler

[1] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Suggested Way to Play

Spoiler

So the game's Pazaak, which you can find described here on the Star Wars wiki.

But essentially it works as follows:

  • The goal is to get as close to a score of 20 as possible without going over. The player that gets closest wins the match. 
  • Each turn you are dealt a random card from 1-10 (roll a d10)
  • You then have the option of playing one of the 4 random cards selected from your personal side deck.
  • After that, you can "End your Turn" and continue to play in the round, or you can "Stand" which indicates you are happy with your current score and don't wish to risk any further cards.
  • If your score is ever over 20 when you end your turn, you have gone "Bust", and have lost the current match.
  • First player to win 3 matches wins the game.

The side deck is made up of 10 unique cards. The options are essentially:

  • Cards from -6 to +6, excluding a zero card
  • Cards from 1 to 6 that you can choose whether they're + or - when you play them
  • The "2 & 4" or "3 & 6" flip cards - playing the 2&4 flip card turns all +2 and +4 cards on your field to -2 and -4 cards respectively, and visa versa.

I've chosen the following side deck and have use a list randomiser to select 4 cards:

  • -/+1
  • -/+2
  • -/+3
  • -/+4
  • Flip 2&4
  • +3
  • +4
  • -2
  • -5
  • -1

My Randomised Draws from the Side Deck (This is meant to be hidden during the game, but so I don't forget, and/or there's transparency over what legal plays I might make, here it is)

Spoiler

Flip 2&4, -1, -/+1, +4

 

Edited by Haelbarde
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xinoehp512

xinoehp512

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Kasimir said:

"We could play group pazaak," Illvin drawled. 

He knew the feeling, lurking around, looking in. Pazaak was pretty addictive after all. Knew a granny down the block who beat him at it hands down each time, over lunch break. He figured he'd learn her tricks one day.

"DPS rules, even."

'Course, that meant making it up as you go along, with a handy amount of table shuffling and carefully curated exclamations, but he wasn't sure everyone needed to know that.

Doncie sauntered over to the group playing some sort of card game. "Mind if I join?"

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Kasimir

Kasimir

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

"Seems we have ourselves here a full Pazaak tournament just waiting to happen. Don't mind some DPS rules myself. Figure we can either do individual matches, or we do one longer games as all 4 of us play each other at the same time. Don't mind what we do, but mind if I start us off?"

"I'm not minded, either," Illvin replied. The man in the splendid long coat was shuffling his cards, dealing himself in, and some of the others were interested. The more the merrier, Illvin figured.

[OOC: Hael and I were discussing pre-game how to run this, I'm using the same side-deck because I haven't yet slept, and I don't want to accidentally power game this the way you can in KOTOR/KOTOR 2.]

He drew from his side-deck, fanned the cards out, and did his best to keep his face impassive. ("Face like an open deck," the granny had chortled, which Illvin thought was rather unfair. It wasn't like he played all his cards face-up unless it was pazaak and he had to.)

[OOC: For accountability as well, these are my four cards:

Spoiler

<-/+2, +3, -/+4, -5>

Half-tempted to mock-up Pazaak card images here, but nevermind >>]

His turn. The stranger had drawn a 1. A decent enough start, if slow. Perhaps luck was about to show him some mercy.

"So, who are you anyway? I never forget a face, and I feel like I've seen a face like yours around a couple of times," he drawled, and turned over his chosen card.

Lucky seven it was.

Quote

[7] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

"Your turn."

Or perhaps the fellow who wanted to join in was going to go.

[OOC: Hael, damnit, the pazaak theme is already playing in my head :joy: ]

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The Wandering Wizard

The Wandering Wizard

Posted
Posted (edited)

The musical voice tinkles, "I'll go next if you don't mind."

The pit droid moves and shuffles the figment in.

Quote

Here's my full side deck

  • -/+1
  • -/+3
  • -/+5
  • -/+6
  • Flip 3&6
  • +2
  • +5
  • -2
  • -3
  • -6

A one and a seven, nothing to terrible for her opponents, but she felt her luck was going to be better. 

Silently she commands the droid to draw from the side deck.

[OOC: Side deck cards for accountability]

Spoiler
  • -/+ 3
  • -/+ 6
  • + 5
  • - 3

A nine, well that wasn't too terrible, perhaps she could play a card, dared she risk it though? No, not until later. I think I can reasonably wait.

Quote

[9] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

"Whoever is next can go, since I believe that we now need four. Is that correct?"

Edited by Ookla the Myopic
Forgot to color OOC
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Haelbarde

Haelbarde

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: Hael, damnit, the pazaak theme is already playing in my head :joy: ]

You're welcome :P

One by one, others sat at the table, pulling out their side decks and dealing them in. As he watched and waited, he could tell it would be an interesting game. Two of the other players had dealt out high starting cards, while another had gotten almost as lucky as his first pull with a 2 on their first card. 

"So, who are you anyway?" Illvin asked. Hal considered the dock worker for a few moments. Though a highish starting card, this fellow had instigated the match. He would have to keep an eye on him he figured, to ensure no funny business with the cards. 

"The name's Hal. Just landed a short while ago, and found myself with some time to kill before check-in." 

Once all the other players interested had dealt themselves in, he leant forward to take a second card.

"It's been a moment since I've set foot on Starsight. What's new?"

He flipped the card. It was a 4. Seems his was to be a slow match for the moment.

"That brings my total to five. Too early to play any cards I think so I'll end my turn."

OOC, I'm going to continue the game without waiting for other posts given I've time now, and won't necessarily have time later when the other potential participants are active. However, the game should run okay with multiple players taking turns at different times, particularly with the early game. Where it does sort of matter is when you've gotten to a total of something like 17, and you're faced with the choice of Ending you Turn and getting another card next turn, gambling on it being a 1-3 (unless you've got negative cards still to play), or Standing, and hoping that no other players land in the 17-20 zone. That's where knowing whether your opponents have already taken a Stand, or have gone bust, etc, help determine whether to take the risk or not. So anyone else who wants to join in, feel free to jump in at any time, and get caught up to the current round, and hopefully we can make the timey-wimeyness of the RP work :ph34r: 

Round One

Spoiler

Hael - Total: 1
[1] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Kas - Total: 7
[7] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Wiz - Total: 9
[9] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Xino - Total: 2
[2] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Round Two

Spoiler

Hael - Total: 5
[1] [4] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

 

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Kasimir

Kasimir

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

You're welcome :P

 

One by one, others sat at the table, pulling out their side decks and dealing them in. As he watched and waited, he could tell it would be an interesting game. Two of the other players had dealt out high starting cards, while another had gotten almost as lucky as his first pull with a 2 on their first card. 

"So, who are you anyway?" Illvin asked. Hal considered the dock worker for a few moments. Though a highish starting card, this fellow had instigated the match. He would have to keep an eye on him he figured, to ensure no funny business with the cards. 

"The name's Hal. Just landed a short while ago, and found myself with some time to kill before check-in." 

Once all the other players interested had dealt themselves in, he leant forward to take a second card.

"It's been a moment since I've set foot on Starsight. What's new?"

He flipped the card. It was a 4. Seems his was to be a slow match for the moment.

"That brings my total to five. Too early to play any cards I think so I'll end my turn."

 

OOC, I'm going to continue the game without waiting for other posts given I've time now, and won't necessarily have time later when the other potential participants are active. However, the game should run okay with multiple players taking turns at different times, particularly with the early game. Where it does sort of matter is when you've gotten to a total of something like 17, and you're faced with the choice of Ending you Turn and getting another card next turn, gambling on it being a 1-3 (unless you've got negative cards still to play), or Standing, and hoping that no other players land in the 17-20 zone. That's where knowing whether your opponents have already taken a Stand, or have gone bust, etc, help determine whether to take the risk or not. So anyone else who wants to join in, feel free to jump in at any time, and get caught up to the current round, and hopefully we can make the timey-wimeyness of the RP work :ph34r: 

Round One

  Reveal hidden contents

Hael - Total: 1
[1] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Kas - Total: 7
[7] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Wiz - Total: 9
[9] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Xino - Total: 2
[2] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

Round Two

  Reveal hidden contents

Hael - Total: 5
[1] [4] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[X] [X] [X] [X]

 

Illvin groaned as he flipped over the six. Not the worst, he supposed, but it felt as though luck had turned fickle. He thought of throwing one of his side deck but hesitated. Best to save the cards for later, if he needed it. 

Hal. Just passing through. Lots of people did in Starsight each day. Kept him in a job, at any rate. 

"Nothing much. What brings you back to this slice of paradise?" 

[OOC: Apologies to impose M'Hael, any chance you can edit the count for me? Formatting is awful on mobile or I'd just c/p my set up now.] 

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The Wandering Wizard

The Wandering Wizard

Posted
Posted (edited)

The droid flipped over a four and the smell of smoke grew. It started to smell as a fire that just picked up speed.

The pit droid then flipped over a +/- six, increasing the total to 19.

"I'll wait for you boys to try to top that!"

The droid leans back in a reclining position, but the smell of smoke lingers over the table.

Quote

 

[9] [4] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[6] [X] [X] [X]

Stopped at a total of 19

 

 

Edited by Ookla the Myopic
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Devotary of Spontaneity

Devotary of Spontaneity

Posted
Posted

         : We've missed our chance.

Kalli: We'll wait our turn. There's already four people playing and I don't want to interrupt them. When they're done, perhaps they'll invite me, or someone else will join.

Can we play a practice round?

I know you prefer it when I explain everything to you in words, but you're perfectly capable of using our senses. I can't know my side cards without you knowing them, and you can't keeps yours secret from me.

Okay.

If that's acceptable, then we can proceed. We'll play with full forty card main decks, my preferred variant for increasing the odds of hitting pazaak, alternating who goes first after every round.

Spoiler

[10] [10] [?]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[-+3] [-5] [+4] [-1]

[7] [1] [5]
[7] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[-+1] [-+4] [Flip 2 & 4] [-5]

See? There's that luck. You didn't even need a redraw for that 20.

[8] [6] [4]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[8] [2] [9]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

It's too early to use side cards.

[10] [8] [7]
[-5] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[5] [2] [9]
[+4] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

❗ That would have been a foolish risk for me to take if it wasn't for the redraw and my negative cards. Luckily, I can match you.

[-+3] [-5] [+4] [-1]

[-+1] [-+4] [Flip 2 & 4] [-5]

[6] [8] [5]
[+1] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[9] [8] [+3]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[-+3] [-5] [+4] [-1]

[-+1] [-+4] [Flip 2 & 4] [-5]

[7] [1] [7]
[5] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

[10] [2] [7]
[?] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

Ouch! That redraw will get you more often than you might think.

[6] [4] [5]
[1] [9] [-5]
[?] [?] [?]

[5] [8] [3]
[+4] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

Nice save!

[-+3] [-5] [+4] [-1]

[-+1] [-+4] [Flip 2 & 4] [-5]

[6] [3] [2]
[3] [9] []
[?] [?] [?]

[-4] [6] [1]
[10] [Flip] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

Couldn't save that one, but now you're out of side cards and I'm still up 2-1. You'll have to be extra careful not to bust.

[-+3] [-5] [+4] [-1]

[-+1] [-+4] [Flip 2 & 4] [-5]

[9] [5] [7]
[] [] []
[?] [?] [?]

[6] [7] []
[] [?] [?]
[?] [?] [?]

Over by one. Unlucky. This must be why you don't mind me fronting all the time. Let me know anytime if you want to play again.

 

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