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Ashyn Desease magic


CMac716

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24 minutes ago, CMac716 said:

Did Ashyn's current magic come from Roshar? Leshwi tells Venli of a disease Raboniel released to kill all the humans that only got one in ten. Could have evolved and been transferred since then

Interesting if it were reversed. Maybe Rabonial learns about the magic on Ashyn and tried to make something of her own. I really do wonder how long it has been since a world-hop between Ashyn and Roshar has occurred. 

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1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

Interesting if it were reversed. Maybe Rabonial learns about the magic on Ashyn and tried to make something of her own. I really do wonder how long it has been since a world-hop between Ashyn and Roshar has occurred. 

The Heralds were born on Ashyn, if Raboniel is a similar age she would have seen them migrate. 
 

Even if she is younger some of the fused could be the Heralds age, and therefore know about Ashyn’s disease based magic system. 

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8 minutes ago, King-A-Train said:

The Heralds were born on Ashyn, if Raboniel is a similar age she would have seen them migrate. 
 

Even if she is younger some of the fused could be the Heralds age, and therefore know about Ashyn’s disease based magic system. 

If I remember correctly she said she was born after the human came but her grandmother was alive when the human came.

Edited by offer
typo
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On 12/3/2022 at 1:11 PM, offer said:

If I remember correctly she said she was born after the human came but her grandmother was alive when the human came.

Yes Rabonial was born after the heralds arrived. But since people were and still are alive on Ashyn, maybe Rabonial sent a scientific expedition at some point. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

Yes Rabonial was norn after the heralds arrived. But since people were and still are alive on Ashyn, maybe Rabonial sent a scientific expedition at some point. 

This is more what I was thinking. Millennia of fighting the Heralds, you'd think at some point they'd want to take a peak at where those humans came from. 

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4 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Interesting if it were reversed. Maybe Rabonial learns about the magic on Ashyn and tried to make something of her own. I really do wonder how long it has been since a world-hop between Ashyn and Roshar has occurred. 

Around 7,000 years

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Yes Rabonial was norn after the heralds arrived. But since people were and still are alive on Ashyn, maybe Rabonial sent a scientific expedition at some point. 

How would they have gotten there?

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11 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

 

How would they have gotten there?

Through shadeshmar. Rabonial told Navani that you can`t go to other planets physically (they tried and failed) but you can in the cognitive realm. They will need to find a way to get back to the PR in Ashyn but they probably could find a way with their powers - Jasnah did manage it so it is possible with the transportation surge .

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It doesn’t seem to hard to give Jasnah a team and hike through the cognitive realm to Ashyn. Shouldn’t Jasnah be able to pop through Shadesmaar and say hello once she locates some flickering souls? 
 

I don’t think travel within the Rosharan system is an issue for spren bonds as we have this WOB
 

Quote

ZuperzubS

Hi Brandon, just to double check my understanding of things, Odium is still mostly bound on Braize right? Just that he can influence things on Roshar because of proximity?

Brandon Sanderson

I treat Braize, Ashyn, and Roshar as if they were almost one entity for a lot of Identity/Connection related issues. It's more than proximity, though proximity leads to it. We on Earth, I feel, would consider the moon and even Mars to be "ours" so to speak, part of our family of planets. Odium's binding, and that of the heralds/fused encompasses Roshar and Ashyn. There are some subtle distinctions, but for the most part, being bound on Braize is the same as being bound on Roshar.

mraize7

So Shadesmar is only from Roshar or from the three planets??

Brandon Sanderson

You can reach all three through Shadesmar, with a much shorter trip than to other systems. But the map we provide so far is only Roshar.

 

Edited by teknopathetic
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14 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

The Fused who have the Surge of Transportation, They might be able to make it if they aren't bound to the planet Roshar but the Rosharan System.

No they couldn't. The Nex-im require a perpendicularity to cross realms, and the barrier storm around Braize's CR would prevent them from leaving.

12 hours ago, offer said:

Through shadeshmar. Rabonial told Navani that you can`t go to other planets physically (they tried and failed) but you can in the cognitive realm. They will need to find a way to get back to the PR in Ashyn but they probably could find a way with their powers - Jasnah did manage it so it is possible with the transportation surge .

With Radiant transportation yes, the Nex-im can't however. They only would have had the opportunity during a desolation, where they spend most of the time fighting, and I doubt there is a perpendicularity on Ashyn 

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Another relevant WOB:

Quote

Questioner

You have talked about writing a book about Ashyn, the first planet in the Rosharan system. You said that they have a magic system based on disease, but they are currently without a Shard. Can you tell us what the source of that magic system is?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of the magic systems in the cosmere, I kind of in my head differentiate kind of the primary worlds and the secondary worlds. And even on the secondary worlds, there is magic. And any place that a Shard has been in presence is gonna leave behind an aftereffect, but it's not always that. I would call most of the magic on Ashyn Cultivation-based, most likely. And Cultivation's in the system, but has only briefly been to that planet. But it doesn't mean that... basically, it's kind of the level of Investiture. If you go to Scadrial, on Scadrial, you're gonna have a high percentage of the population, cosmereologically, that are gonna have access to one of the Hemalurgic [Metallic] arts, right? Same thing on Roshar. And indeed, the people are going to be Invested on a level that is beyond the others. This is my in-world canon reason that people just don't come down with colds very often or have tooth decay very often, and things like that. On the primary Shardworlds, we're talking about people who are just naturally, highly Invested.

All the other worlds, though, you're still gonna have the occasional pop-up of magic, here and there. You're still gonna have effects of being in the cosmere, and things like that. Just much smaller chances. And the magic's probably going to be less likely to be planet-destroying potential, and things like that, like happened on Ashyn.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 23, 2021)

So it doesn't seem to have come from Roshar, it's just a not-as-usual manifestation of Investiture. There seem to be several worlds in the Cosmere without a Shard that still have developed some kind of magic system (albeit probably not nearly as complex).

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On 05/12/2022 at 7:37 AM, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

No they couldn't. The Nex-im require a perpendicularity to cross realms, and the barrier storm around Braize's CR would prevent them from leaving.

With Radiant transportation yes, the Nex-im can't however. They only would have had the opportunity during a desolation, where they spend most of the time fighting, and I doubt there is a perpendicularity on Ashyn 

Feast your eyes

Spoiler

Questioner

Can you tell me anything about the Elsecallers we don't know yet?

Brandon Sanderson

They should be able to get back out of Shadesmar without having to find a perpendicularity, but Jasnah doesn't know how to do it yet. She should be able to do that, she just hasn't figured it out.

The Nex-im have had several thousand more years of practice than Jasnah has, so I believe that they can.

Also...

On 04/12/2022 at 6:43 PM, offer said:

Rabonial told Navani that you can`t go to other planets physically (they tried and failed) but you can in the cognitive realm.

The Fused have at least attempted to Worldhop, and Desolations tend to last years at the least if the True Desolation is anything to go by. So they would hve had plenty of time to try.

They wouldn't bother with Worldhopping between Braize and Roshar since they knowthe Oathpact will keep them on Braize and Odium can send them to Roshar so there's no need to bother with that. Cognitive Shadows, which the Fused are, have difficulty leaving the System they originated from so they wouldn't be Worldhopping to, I dunno, Scadrial?

By process of deduction and elimination, the Fused have at least attempted to Worldhop to Ashyn in the past.

Why they would have tried to Worldhop to Ashyn isn't the question I'm answering, I'm answering the how and the when.

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Just now, JustQuestin2004 said:

Feast your eyes

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Can you tell me anything about the Elsecallers we don't know yet?

Brandon Sanderson

They should be able to get back out of Shadesmar without having to find a perpendicularity, but Jasnah doesn't know how to do it yet. She should be able to do that, she just hasn't figured it out.

The Nex-im have had several thousand more years of practice than Jasnah has, so I believe that they can.

Radiant surges and fused surges are different. Stonewards can't walk through stone. Elsecallers can't teleport. Heavenly ones can't lash thenselves multiple times. Magnified ones can't grow crops etc.

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Just now, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Radiant surges and fused surges are different. Stonewards can't walk through stone. Elsecallers can't teleport. Heavenly ones can't lash thenselves multiple times. Magnified ones can't grow crops etc.

Hmmm, I thought that was just because that was their 'Efficient' applications of their powers.

You know, Leshwi said that the Fused have a precision with the Surges that Radiant's will never know, "What's better, to have multiple powers, or one wielded expertly?"

The Nex-im aren't shown Elsecalling because how will that help them in a fight aside from escaping, which the Purserer, the only Nex-im we've really seen to my memory, seemed very unlikely to do?

And some of the Fused have been shown to be reluctant to use the parts of their powers that use Voidlight, like healing themselves.

Fom what I understand the Surges between the Radiants and the Fused aren't the things that are different, for the most part, it's the sheer difference in skill and finesse with them. Plus Odium probably tinkered with them a little bit to reduce the Investment requirement on his part or something.

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19 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

 The Nex-im aren't shown Elsecalling because how will that help them in a fight aside from escaping, which the Purserer, the only Nex-im we've really seen to my memory, seemed very unlikely to do?

There are a lot of places that would be helpful. Like when Kaladin locked him in a room and he just pounded on the door and had his servants dig him out. Or when he locked Kaladin in the well, he could have gotten through the lid and continued to attack.

19 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

And some of the Fused have been shown to be reluctant to use the parts of their powers that use Voidlight, like healing themselves.

Healing isn't conscious, it just happens.

19 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Fom what I understand the Surges between the Radiants and the Fused aren't the things that are different, for the most part, it's the sheer difference in skill and finesse with them. Plus Odium probably tinkered with them a little bit to reduce the Investment requirement on his part or something.

Windrunners are faster than the Heavenly ones. If there was no difference in what their powers could do then there wouldn't be a difference in speed.

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1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

There are a lot of places that would be helpful. Like when Kaladin locked him in a room and he just pounded on the door and had his servants dig him out. Or when he locked Kaladin in the well, he could have gotten through the lid and continued to attack.

Maybe Elsecalling isn't that precise? I dunno you got me on this one.

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Healing isn't conscious, it just happens.

The Fused try to avoid getting hurt, dodging often instead of taking advantage of their healing factor to get in close and deal some damage.

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Windrunners are faster than the Heavenly ones. If there was no difference in what their powers could do then there wouldn't be a difference in speed.

I think that's more of a tactical choice on the Heavenly One's part more than a lack of ability.

Imagine this: If you were a Heavenly One fighting a Windrunner, do you waste Voidlight trying to match their speed, or do you move at a slower speed with far more skill with no loss in Voidlight and make the Windrunner waste their Stormlight?

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1 minute ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

The Fused try to avoid getting hurt, dodging often instead of taking advantage of their healing factor to get in close and deal some damage.

Because you are heavily outmatched in the damage department. If you get close enough to hit the radiant, the radiant is close enough to hit you, and they have the sword that can kill you through your healing. 

2 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I think that's more of a tactical choice on the Heavenly One's part more than a lack of ability.

Imagine this: If you were a Heavenly One fighting a Windrunner, do you waste Voidlight trying to match their speed, or do you move at a slower speed with far more skill with no loss in Voidlight and make the Windrunner waste their Stormlight?

If one lashing doesn't cost voidlight why would multiple?

And even if for some reason it did you can carry aroind voidlight the same way they can stormlight. 

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4 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Because you are heavily outmatched in the damage department. If you get close enough to hit the radiant, the radiant is close enough to hit you, and they have the sword that can kill you through your healing. 

Oh right Shardblades are a heck of a deterrent for CQC. Good point.

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

If one lashing doesn't cost voidlight why would multiple?

I have no idea besides a stupid amount of practice and maybe a pinch of Divine Intervention.

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And even if for some reason it did you can carry aroind voidlight the same way they can stormlight. 

Also no idea, maybe they don't like getting Odium's attention with the Song of Prayer. Maybe they want to avoid humans getting any for fear that they might discover something.

Some actually can't bring Voidlight-filled gems with them, like the pursuer when he teleports, or the Deepest Ones when they go through walls. 

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