A Cosmere Clue

[Cuaiir]

As I'm sure we all know, Sam Weller's Bookstore did a pre-order of Alloy of Law, and Brandon went over to sign and personalize a good-sized chunk of books. I put in my pre-order as soon as I heard, with the request that Brandon write a clue to the nature of the cosmere, specifically Realmatic theory. What I got Monday night was interesting to say the least. I'll post a picture of it later, but here it is:

Entities exist on all three realms that are only vaguely shadowed on the other realms.

You have seen entities who exist primarily on the Cognitive Realm + are shadowed on the Physical.

My thoughts:

The word 'entities' is very specific. Does this mean people (humans) aren't shadowed on the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms?

Also telling is the word-choice of 'on' instead of 'in.' Not sure what this means yet, but Brandon is usually tricky with his wording.

The entities we've seen are on Shadesmar primarily and are shadowed on the Physical, but there is no mention of the Spiritual Realm. Does this mean that Cognitive entities don't have a Spiritual component?

The entities we've seen, what are they? My first reaction was spren, but, the more I considered it, Seons also became a possibility. No particular logic behind that yet, just a second reaction.

So. Let's chew on this bone, shall we?

EDIT: Our overlords have asked us to put stuff like this over here, so let's do that.

Dear admins, I think this topic can go away.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Cuaiir

[Thor]

As I'm sure we all know, Sam Weller's Bookstore did a pre-order of Alloy of Law, and Brandon went over to sign and personalize a good-sized chunk of books. I put in my pre-order as soon as I heard, with the request that Brandon write a clue to the nature of the cosmere, specifically Realmatic theory. What I got Monday night was interesting to say the least. I'll post a picture of it later, but here it is:

My thoughts:

The word 'entities' is very specific. Does this mean people (humans) aren't shadowed on the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms?

Also telling is the word-choice of 'on' instead of 'in.' Not sure what this means yet, but Brandon is usually tricky with his wording.

The entities we've seen are on Shadesmar primarily and are shadowed on the Physical, but there is no mention of the Spiritual Realm. Does this mean that Cognitive entities don't have a Spiritual component?

The entities we've seen, what are they? My first reaction was spren, but, the more I considered it, Seons also became a possibility. No particular logic behind that yet, just a second reaction.

So. Let's chew on this bone, shall we?

My guess would also be Spren (this is actually a question that on the Ultimate List of Questions thread) for being a Cognitive aspect with a shadow on the Physical. Humans are, presumably, Physical but with shadows on the Spiritual and Cognitive realms. Shards should be present on all three Realms and Seons/Skaze...Spiritual with Physical shadows? Idk. While not very specific, there is some information here. Thanks for getting it!

[LightReader]

Entities exist on all three realms that are only vaguely shadowed on the other realms.

It makes me wonder what sort of entities exist on the spiritual realm that are only vaguely shadowed in the cognitive/physical realms. I'm totally thinking ghosts!

You have seen entities who exist primarily on the Cognitive Realm + are shadowed on the Physical.

I agree that this second part is probably referring to spren. I'm thinking specifically of the symbol-headed fellows that Shallan sees only in her drawings. She doesn't see them physically, but she perceives them on a cognitive level in her Memories which she can then draw.

Edit: inserted quotation and fixed grammar for clarification

Edited November 12, 2011 by LightReader

[Wispsy]

you just said that they are in the spiritual realm because she perceives them cognitively :/

[Necronos]

I would think that humans are shadowed on the other realms. The very act of being cut by a shardblade, with no physical manifestation of that cut, would hint that the wound exists on one of the other realms (and I think it is the Spiritual Realm)

I have no clue what anything else means, I just wanted to chime in and say my bit on good old humans

[Arcanist Lupus]

I'm in support of the spren as cognitive w/ physical shades theory.

Why? Because when Shallan mentions the symbolheads, Jasnah assumes that she saw them in Shadesmar.

That being said, all spren besides for Syl and the symbolheads seem to lack cognitive abilities.

[Eri]

I was thinking symbolheads, but I agree that it may be other spren, too.

[happyman]

I'm in support of the spren as cognitive w/ physical shades theory.

Why? Because when Shallan mentions the symbolheads, Jasnah assumes that she saw them in Shadesmar.

That being said, all spren besides for Syl and the symbolheads seem to lack cognitive abilities.

Do they lack cognitive abilities, or are their cognitive abilities just very small? I mean, how intelligent is your average chair or vase, anyway? Apparently they have some cognitive ability (Shallan talks to a pitcher, or at least, that is how she interprets the sensation) but not much.

[Arcanist Lupus]

Do they lack cognitive abilities, or are their cognitive abilities just very small? I mean, how intelligent is your average chair or vase, anyway? Apparently they have some cognitive ability (Shallan talks to a pitcher, or at least, that is how she interprets the sensation) but not much.

Good point. and Kaladin mentions spren mimicking words and faces early on.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

It could also be that the spren people on Roshar see are the physical shadow of the Cognitive entity and all the actual cognitive activity is happening in that realm and their shadow (i.e. a flame, or a chair, or ale) or something merely mimics that activity in the physical realm.

[FeatherWriter]

I like that idea, Green Hoodie Mistborn. Then what seperates Honorspren (assuming that both Syl and the Symbolheads are classified as Honorspren) would be that they are more connected to the physical world and have more of their cognitive abilities showing through.

[Zas678]

I agree with Green Mistborn Hoodie. It makes sense that spren are physical shadows of cognitive items, fueled by spiritual energy (Notice how there aren't any Spren in Shinovar?), and that the spheres we see in the Shadesmar is the cognitive shadow of the physical items.

EDIT- And to reply to Featherwriter, maybe that's what the Nahel Bond does. It "binds" a mostly physical thing with a mostly cognitive thing, and we get things that are better at both. We see that Syl is able to pick up the leaves, and Kaladin is able to mimic Syl and gather energy from the Stormlight.

[discipleofhoid]

I agree with Green Mistborn Hoodie. It makes sense that spren are physical shadows of cognitive items, fueled by spiritual energy (Notice how there aren't any Spren in Shinovar?), and that the spheres we see in the Shadesmar is the cognitive shadow of the physical items.

EDIT- And to reply to Featherwriter, maybe that's what the Nahel Bond does. It "binds" a mostly physical thing with a mostly cognitive thing, and we get things that are better at both. We see that Syl is able to pick up the leaves, and Kaladin is able to mimic Syl and gather energy from the Stormlight.

This sounds good to me - when Syl first started she wasn't much different from a windspren. As her bond with Kalidin grows she seems to be more and more grounded in the physical realm.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

Also, de we know how capable of cognition Spren are, really? If people are correct, and they mostly exist in the Cognitive Realm, then maybe their shadows on the Physical are weak and disoriented, because they don't belong here (except for Syl, who is a special case). In their native Realm, they might be much smarter.

Alternately, maybe they really are Spiritual entities - the quote does not say that we haven't seen Spiritual entities which case Physical shadows.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Also, de we know how capable of cognition Spren are, really? If people are correct, and they mostly exist in the Cognitive Realm, then maybe their shadows on the Physical are weak and disoriented, because they don't belong here (except for Syl, who is a special case). In their native Realm, they might be much smarter.

Alternately, maybe they really are Spiritual entities - the quote does not say that we haven't seen Spiritual entities which case Physical shadows.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

I'm not sure that it's so much they don't belong in the physical realm, just that the physical realm is the place they leave a shadow...

As to Spiritual entities... do any of Spooks interactions with "ghost" Kel correspond to any of Spook's visions of Kel or where those all Ruin when he saw Kel?

I like Zas' idea that the Nahael bond lends access to more aspects of your "shadow" realm, thus making Syl more physical and Kaladin more... Cognitive I suppose.

Side note: anyone wonder if Stormlight is related to the light that pools of a Shard's power give off? I.e. the Well of Ascension, Preservation's concentrated liquid power form shed light, the pool in Elantris which I'm assuming was concentrated Aona power gave off a light, maybe Stormlight is concentrated Honor power? Just a talking "out loud" thought...

[Deus Ex Biotica]

As to Spiritual entities... do any of Spooks interactions with "ghost" Kel correspond to any of Spook's visions of Kel or where those all Ruin when he saw Kel?

Whenever he saw Kel, it was Ruin, but he did hear the voice of the real dead Kel a couple of times after his Spike was removed, due to Kel in the Cognitive Realm seizing Preservation's power briefly.

Side note: anyone wonder if Stormlight is related to the light that pools of a Shard's power give off? I.e. the Well of Ascension, Preservation's concentrated liquid power form shed light, the pool in Elantris which I'm assuming was concentrated Aona power gave off a light, maybe Stormlight is concentrated Honor power? Just a talking "out loud" thought...

Wow. I think you just blew my mind right there.

[ulyssessword]

I like Zas' idea that the Nahael bond lends access to more aspects of your "shadow" realm, thus making Syl more physical and Kaladin more... Cognitive I suppose.

It seems like the exact opposite is happening, with Syl gaining a stronger Cognitive presence (intelligence, memory, personality) and Kalading gaining stronger physical presence (Surgebinding abilities).

Syl already had some physical abilities when she was a windspren, notably binding objects together, but had no mind. Kaladin's mind is largely the same as before, but he gained a physical power through his connection to Syl.

[discipleofhoid]

It seems like the exact opposite is happening, with Syl gaining a stronger Cognitive presence (intelligence, memory, personality) and Kalading gaining stronger physical presence (Surgebinding abilities).

Syl already had some physical abilities when she was a windspren, notably binding objects together, but had no mind. Kaladin's mind is largely the same as before, but he gained a physical power through his connection to Syl.

I would actually guess what Kaladin is gaining is a spiritual power - gravity has been described as the spiritual connection to the planet. I will find the quote and post it.