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StanLemon

Fullborn or Full Radiant

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Which would you rather be? A Fullborn with a comprehensive understanding of Hemalurgy (despite the fact we still know so little about Hemalurgy) or a Radiant with access to all 10 Surges. 

Personally I think I'd want to be a Fullborn despite the PHENOMINAL COSMIC POWER of all 10 Surges. This is mostly because I think I would very much like the quality of life advantages of Feruchemy and Mistborn abilities would be fun.

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Do I have to adhere to all the Oaths? Because that's way to restrictive. 

And do I have unchained Bondsmth powers? Because I don't trust myself with those.

If I have no oaths, but only have chained bondsmith powers give me the surges. Otherwise I might have to fo with fullborn.

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Hmm, interesting dilemma here.

I'm gonna list out the pros for both in my own opinion. Not cons cause I can't really think of any.

Fullborn (+ Hemalurgy)

Pros

1) Far more accessible power source, just need regular metals.

2) Semi-Immortality if consistent access to Atium is possible.

3) Unsealed Metalminds and such could prove incredibly useful for building a power base and a gathering of loyal followers.

4) Not bound to any particular world. Plus it would be theoretically possible to make your own Perpendicularity by storing a stupid amount of Investiture in a very large metalmind.

5) Hemalurgy makes it possible to acquire even more powers.

'Full' Radiant (Assuming it's just one person with 5 or more Honorblades)

Pros 

1) More esoteric abilities that the Metallic Arts couldn't replicate, such as Soulcasting, Lightweaving, the Lashings and other physics breaking powers.

2) The stupidly OP abilities of a freaking Bondsmith. Including, but nowhere near limited to, opening a Perpendicularity to recharge your powers whenever you want, could probably overcome the 'Planet-Bound' limit too come to think of it. Kind of breaks the scale entirely.

3) Awesome Magic Swords, nuff said.

That's all I can think of, though one big disadvantage is that a Full Radiant wouldn't really have any obvious ways of becoming Ageless.

My choice would depend on whether I'd be able to gather a consistent supply of Atium, because if I could I'd go Immortal God Emperor. If not though I'd pick Full Radiant just because of the sheer versatility of it. Plus Bondsmith is too OP, please don't nerf.

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On just the basis of the question I have to go with fullborn.  Plate and magical sword would be sweet but compounding every metal would be sweeter.  Rocket like flight with iron compounding and steel pushing.  The ability to heal through the friction of moving at the speed of sound ++.  Duralumin compounding .... chromium compounding.... being able to make medallions likely of every combo and give them to your elite. 

Hemalurgy aside fullborn is insane.  

All 10 surges... as has already been pointed out would be a lot of oaths or some really messed up way of acquiring them.  

What was missing from this list though is my #1.  10th heightening awakener... silent commands at range and the ability to just awaken your own set of shardplate and shardblades.  Awakening is the bees knees.  Maybe not as powerful as the other 2 listed here but then again we haven't seen it be used at nearly the extent of the others either.  We got 1 scene of a 10th heightening awakener who never used his powers before and that was it (lots of scenes with the results of lower investiture and greater knowledge though). 

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On 12/3/2022 at 0:08 PM, StanLemon said:

Personally I think I'd want to be a Fullborn despite the PHENOMINAL COSMIC POWER of all 10 Surges. This is mostly because I think I would very much like the quality of life advantages of Feruchemy and Mistborn abilities would be fun.

Agree with this 100%. Feruchemy would be so convenient, and it would be very cool to be able to compound the abilities too! I'd be really keen on compounding Connection in order to travel and speak the local language of the places you go. Compounding copper to have a better memory would also be really nifty. :)

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A Fullborn is just so much better than a full Radiant. If the Radiant gets their powers by using a combination of Honorblades rather than bonding the spren to gain the powers (which seems like it’s possible, just unlikely), they’re a bit better, but still nothing compared to a Fullborn. If a wielder of multiple Honorblades fought a Fullborn with sufficient metals, the Fullborn wins hands-down. We know Honorblades use stormlight faster than conventional Nahel Bonds, and using more than one would drain stormlight and an extreme rate. A Fullborn with full metal minds and enough metals to burn is basically unstoppable. They can heal from anything, with virtually no limit as long as they have enough gold (Compounders are way more powerful than conventional Bloodmakers), and they have enhanced strength and durability from pewter. Add temporal manipulation and Atium, along with duralumin fueled steel or iron, and Compounded speed, and the Fullborn outlasts the Radiant 100%, especially if they can Leech the Radiant’s stormlight. The fight would be close, and I don’t think gold can heal a wound from a Shardblade, but I’d say the Fullborn would win in heated combat, especially with Atium.

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56 minutes ago, TheSurvivorofDeath said:

A Fullborn is just so much better than a full Radiant. If the Radiant gets their powers by using a combination of Honorblades rather than bonding the spren to gain the powers (which seems like it’s possible, just unlikely), they’re a bit better, but still nothing compared to a Fullborn. If a wielder of multiple Honorblades fought a Fullborn with sufficient metals, the Fullborn wins hands-down. We know Honorblades use stormlight faster than conventional Nahel Bonds, and using more than one would drain stormlight and an extreme rate. A Fullborn with full metal minds and enough metals to burn is basically unstoppable. They can heal from anything, with virtually no limit as long as they have enough gold (Compounders are way more powerful than conventional Bloodmakers), and they have enhanced strength and durability from pewter. Add temporal manipulation and Atium, along with duralumin fueled steel or iron, and Compounded speed, and the Fullborn outlasts the Radiant 100%, especially if they can Leech the Radiant’s stormlight. The fight would be close, and I don’t think gold can heal a wound from a Shardblade, but I’d say the Fullborn would win in heated combat, especially with Atium.

Pretty sure it is more one sided than you think.  Gold can heal a shardblade to the spine.  Fullborn can literally run in burning the world around him at 2000 degrees faster than the speed of sound weighing thousands of lbs and slam into the radiant while healing it all at once.  One massive blitz attack burning the core of the radiant to a crisp while leeching it and ripping its heart straight out of its chest through the perfect fist sized hole that is left of shattered sprenplate.  

Fullborn is so far beyond busted it isn't fair.  I have said it a bunch of times.   Rashek wanted to die.  He didn't put forth even a single percent of effort into facing off with Vin.  When she beat him he was relieved to be free of his obligations.  

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2 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Pretty sure it is more one sided than you think.  Gold can heal a shardblade to the spine.  Fullborn can literally run in burning the world around him at 2000 degrees faster than the speed of sound weighing thousands of lbs and slam into the radiant while healing it all at once.  One massive blitz attack burning the core of the radiant to a crisp while leeching it and ripping its heart straight out of its chest through the perfect fist sized hole that is left of shattered sprenplate.  

Fullborn is so far beyond busted it isn't fair.  I have said it a bunch of times.   Rashek wanted to die.  He didn't put forth even a single percent of effort into facing off with Vin.  When she beat him he was relieved to be free of his obligations.  

Definitely. I just wasn’t sure if gold could heal a Shardblade, which was the only thing really make it an issue, even though the Radiant would have to get insanely lucky to hit a man moving faster than he could think. But you’re definitely right. Undiluted Fullborn is definitely the most powerful embodiment of a single magic system ( Metallic Arts ) in the entire Cosmere. Only way one of them loses is if they want to lose.

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16 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Pretty sure it is more one sided than you think.  Gold can heal a shardblade to the spine.  Fullborn can literally run in burning the world around him at 2000 degrees faster than the speed of sound weighing thousands of lbs and slam into the radiant while healing it all at once.  One massive blitz attack burning the core of the radiant to a crisp while leeching it and ripping its heart straight out of its chest through the perfect fist sized hole that is left of shattered sprenplate.  

Fullborn is so far beyond busted it isn't fair.  I have said it a bunch of times.   Rashek wanted to die.  He didn't put forth even a single percent of effort into facing off with Vin.  When she beat him he was relieved to be free of his obligations.  

There are limits to compounding that would prevent that from happening.

 

1 hour ago, TheSurvivorofDeath said:

A Fullborn is just so much better than a full Radiant. If the Radiant gets their powers by using a combination of Honorblades rather than bonding the spren to gain the powers (which seems like it’s possible, just unlikely), they’re a bit better, but still nothing compared to a Fullborn. If a wielder of multiple Honorblades fought a Fullborn with sufficient metals, the Fullborn wins hands-down. We know Honorblades use stormlight faster than conventional Nahel Bonds, and using more than one would drain stormlight and an extreme rate. A Fullborn with full metal minds and enough metals to burn is basically unstoppable. They can heal from anything, with virtually no limit as long as they have enough gold (Compounders are way more powerful than conventional Bloodmakers), and they have enhanced strength and durability from pewter. Add temporal manipulation and Atium, along with duralumin fueled steel or iron, and Compounded speed, and the Fullborn outlasts the Radiant 100%, especially if they can Leech the Radiant’s stormlight. The fight would be close, and I don’t think gold can heal a wound from a Shardblade, but I’d say the Fullborn would win in heated combat, especially with Atium.

How does the Fullborn survive being teleported to Ton 618?

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2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

There are limits to compounding that would prevent that from happening.

 

How does the Fullborn survive being teleported to Ton 618?

One, he probably doesn’t, assuming he crosses the event horizon. I’m not sure what means are being used to get him there, but he probably avoids those. Fullborn can probably survive in the void of space, since feruchemy is extremely overpowered, especially with compounding, though he probably wouldn’t survive forever. There are limits, of course, and such an event as what you suggest would probably kill him. But engaged in heated combat, a Fullborn wins against pretty much anyone, and without someone to kill them, they’re effectively immortal, as we see with Rashek.

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35 minutes ago, TheSurvivorofDeath said:

One, he probably doesn’t, assuming he crosses the event horizon. I’m not sure what means are being used to get him there, but he probably avoids those. Fullborn can probably survive in the void of space, since feruchemy is extremely overpowered, especially with compounding, though he probably wouldn’t survive forever. There are limits, of course, and such an event as what you suggest would probably kill him. But engaged in heated combat, a Fullborn wins against pretty much anyone, and without someone to kill them, they’re effectively immortal, as we see with Rashek.

Bondsmiths can manipulate Elsecaller powers to create portals.

Spoiler

Questioner

Could you use AonDor to manipulate Connection? If so, would a real AonDor smarty be able to do something similar to a Bondsmith?

 

 

Brandon Sanderson

The short answer to your question is: yes. Let me give some explanation.

Even when you are seeings some things happening in Elantris itself, you are seeing them manipulate Connection. It is mostly reinforcing Connection, but it is, in a way, manipulation. Rewriting Connection, rewriting Identity are both things that they can do. So with enough power, with enough smartiness, what a Bondsmith can do can be done.

In fact, we have seen short-range Elsecalling done by… Obviously Elsecalling’s not Bondsmithing, but you know that a Bondsmith powered a big Elsecalling [to migrate from Ashyn], one of the big things you’ve seen a Bondsmith do is get people between planets. And you have seen people use AonDor to Elsecall. You’ve seen them Lightweave, you’ve seen them do a lot of these things. They also could do some of this same stuff.

Basically, rule of thumb is: almost anything in the cosmere that is possible can be replicated with AonDor with the right program. But you may need an injection of Investiture in certain ways.

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15860Questioner

At the end of Rhythm of War, we see Shard-induced time dilation; you bring a lot of Investiture into a place, and it slows down time.

Brandon Sanderson

It can also speed it up.

Questioner

How much Investiture would it take to dilate an area so that one area moves forward about fifteen years into the future while everything else remains? Like, they have ten minutes, everyone else goes fifteen years?

Brandon Sanderson

There’s a couple variables here. Number one is the length of the area, and how fast that fifteen years passes. If we want us to jump forward fifteen years, in how much time? Fifteen years compared to one year? Fifteen years compared to one minute? Fifteen years compared to one second? These are all different things. And, of course, the more you’re compressing and the larger the area, the more Investiture you’re requiring.

Questioner

Could two unchained Bondsmiths in the course of a duel do it?

Brandon Sanderson

Fifteen years? Fifteen years is gonna be a stretch for what they can get a hold of, but it depends. Unchained Bondsmith, unchained to (for instance) a deity that there is no longer a Vessel controlling that power in the way that it needs to have the limits on it is going to be able to access more than one where there was some Vessel there saying “no.” So there’s one factor in it. A Bondsmith can access a lot of power, as evidenced by the migration. The migration from Ashyn to Roshar happened with a Bondsmith powering some Elsecalling. And that allowed for some pretty crazy things. Getting an entire population moved through a portal across that much space is a lot of work and a lot of energy.

So what you’re asking, I think that’s stretching. Depends, again, on how long. Fifteen to one, not so hard. Fifteen years in a second is really hard and probably beyond what they have capacity to do.

I see what you’re doing there. You saw me talk around it.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15849

And even with f-gold and f-cadmium they wouldn't last more than a few hours.

Edited by Frustration
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36 minutes ago, Frustration said:

There are limits to compounding that would prevent that from happening.

Curious on what limits here?   I actually think compounding gold fixes the whole burning yourself and air friction burning you issues.  Pewter compounding and allomancy will also carry that weight easily and momentum from speed will help the fullborn move that fast.  Perhaps the 2000 degrees is a bit far fetched as you would quickly run through your gold but the all the rest are spot on.  Gold heals the friction of traveling faster than sound and you have the strength to carry all of that weight.  By the time a 2000 lb body hits you going 900+ feet per second you are gonna get destroyed plate or not.  Burning a bit of chromium past that to drain the radiant is just icing on the cake.  

There is always the soulcasting from another plane of existence but that in the same boat as assassination I would say.  In an area with a 3, 2, 1 go the only chance anyone has against a fullborn is holding out nightblood and praying the fullborn touches him. 

In a 1v1 I actually think godking has a better chance than a full radiant.  Godking could wake up a metalmind on the fullborn mentally to destroy evil and the fullborn would likely vaporize right there.   Honestly I think if anyone has the raw investiture to turn a metalmind into a mini nightblood it would be a godking and I think that would be far more effective than even the elsecaller trying to soulcast the guy.  

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1 minute ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Curious on what limits here?   I actually think compounding gold fixes the whole burning yourself and air friction burning you issues.  Pewter compounding and allomancy will also carry that weight easily and momentum from speed will help the fullborn move that fast.  Perhaps the 2000 degrees is a bit far fetched as you would quickly run through your gold but the all the rest are spot on.  Gold heals the friction of traveling faster than sound and you have the strength to carry all of that weight.  By the time a 2000 lb body hits you going 900+ feet per second you are gonna get destroyed plate or not.  Burning a bit of chromium past that to drain the radiant is just icing on the cake.

So compounding is limited by the size of metal you can consume. Since compounding is just Allomancy fueling feruchemy, the amount of power you can draw out of a piece of metal is fixed. What makes compounding powerful is that you can store it for future use, but the more you pull out the more you lose.

Basically in order to do what you are suggesting a Fullborn would have to eat literal mountains of metal.

3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

There is always the soulcasting from another plane of existence but that in the same boat as assassination I would say.  In an area with a 3, 2, 1 go the only chance anyone has against a fullborn is holding out nightblood and praying the fullborn touches him. 

Given full-radiant powers I would give myself a half- lashing up, becoming weightless, and then open a portal to a supermassive black hole. The Fullborn is affected by gravity, and will be pulled inside, while I can simply watch it happen, and close the portal when he goes through.

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Even though I would prefer to be a Fullborn, and even though Fullborn are the biggest combat monsters in the Cosmere, a Full Radiant would be more powerful in general terms I think. The laws of physics do get pretty pliable in the hands of the Surges and they would be able to do more overall than a Fullborn would likely be able to do.

 

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5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

So compounding is limited by the size of metal you can consume. Since compounding is just Allomancy fueling feruchemy, the amount of power you can draw out of a piece of metal is fixed. What makes compounding powerful is that you can store it for future use, but the more you pull out the more you lose.

Basically in order to do what you are suggesting a Fullborn would have to eat literal mountains of metal.

Given full-radiant powers I would give myself a half- lashing up, becoming weightless, and then open a portal to a supermassive black hole. The Fullborn is affected by gravity, and will be pulled inside, while I can simply watch it happen, and close the portal when he goes through.

The fullborn would need mountains to maintain that stuff.  Look at bleeder.  Shooting 3 shots all from different locations all in one the space of 1 shots worth of sound.  Supposedly she wasn't even compounding.  If you had the gold to heal the friction the fullborn would have ripped out the radiants heart before the radiant even thought about lashing anywhere.  

Metalminds piercing the skin is enough to compound and Brandon himself said that a duralumin fueled compounding of anything could have catastrophic results.  There is no mountains needed to pull of a 1 second blitz.  The fullborn could cover more than 3 football fields in a second.  Likely at the power of the bands of mourning (which were just metalminds and a fullborn wouldn't just be tapping them they would infact be burning them for 10x the power) the fullborn would be able to reach out and yoink the radiant towards them as they speed over to it.  

My disgust with radiants is pale compared to the fullborns potential.  

The fullborn vs radiant is basically a "who pulled the trigger first" fight.  Opening a portal to a black hole would be murder suicide and destroy the entire planet... unless the plan was to somehow isolate only the fullborn which I don't think is possible.  Even a second with a blackhole opened up next to a planet would be mass extinction levels of bad.  

Limits do exist but we have seen on screen what speeds are capable without compounding... and we have seen how juiced up allomancy can be with just feruchemal nicrosil.  

If they start on the same plane of existence within half a mile of eachother I would put my money on the fullborn every time. 

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3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

(which were just metalminds and a fullborn wouldn't just be tapping them they would infact be burning them for 10x the power) 

Compounding doesn't give you ten times the power through, it gives you the same amount of power it would give you if you had burned plain metal of the same size, the only difference is what form that power takes.

While what bleeder did was impressive, it was only in one room and she ran out shortly after.

Marasi completely drained the F-steel in the Bands, and she was only moving faster than sound for a few seconds.

 

Edited by Frustration
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4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Compounding doesn't give you ten times the power through, it gives you the same amount of power it would give you if you had burned plain metal of the same size, the only difference is what form that power takes.

While what bleeder did was impressive, it was only in one room and she ran out shortly after.

Marasi completely drained the F-steel in the Bands, and she was only moving faster than sound for a few seconds.

 

You wouldn't need more than a few seconds is my point.  

My understanding of compounding is that if you have 1 unit of speed and you tap that unit of speed you get back 1 unit of speed... but if you burn that 1 unit of speed you actually get back 10 units of speed.  Turning a net neutral magic system into an extremely powerful net positive.  If I am reading into what Miles describes it as then it literally is getting 10x the potential benefit from the metalminds meaning if Marasi had been able to burn steel and were pierced by the bands then she would have been able to do what she did via allomantically burning the steel away for 10x as long or condense the magic shorter and push it even faster.  

Spoiler

Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

 

We don't know a ton about feruchemical nicrosil yet but there is also a world where a fullborn with the aid of duralumin could push and pull different parts of shardplate and straight up draw and quarter the radiant as well. 

We also have duralumin compounding which could do some insane stuff (part of me wants to see if it could turn touch metals into ranged usage in which case we could see nicrobursting and leeching from a distance).  

 

This comparison is taking all the theoreticals of one being and pitting them against the theoreticals of another.  If we limit it to what we have seen on screen the radiant stands no chance.  If we open it to things that could maybe be then we still have the radiant losing most of these fights.  The fullborn closes way to fast for the radiant to really react. 

 

I prefer to think the fight might end up with the fullborn duralumin fueling some emotional allomancy and compounding some serious connection to just convince the radiant that keeping oaths and being buddies is the best bet.  Go enjoy a good meal and watch the sunset on a different planet every night teaming up to destroy shards instead of eachother.  

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4 hours ago, Frustration said:

Given full-radiant powers I would give myself a half- lashing up, becoming weightless, and then open a portal to a supermassive black hole. The Fullborn is affected by gravity, and will be pulled inside, while I can simply watch it happen, and close the portal when he goes through.

Half-lashing up wouldn't be enough the moment you open a portal to 60bil. solar masses hole in space. You would literally need like 30bil lashings away from portal or even much more depending on distance from the black hole the portal is opened. That ridiculous. The moment you open the portal, gravity is affecting you as well. Or the portal itself might get ripped by gravity and collapse. Even with perpendicularity in your hand, I doubt you could not get pulled into it, as that would be almost shard level of investiture just to prevent you from falling into it. 

And not to mention that you opening a portal to a place billions years in the past and there is not black hole there anymore as it just moved an you don't know where it is currently. 

But cool idea, love it anyway, but there are better places to teleport Fullborn into - just send him to the space close to the sun. 

 

4 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

My understanding of compounding is that if you have 1 unit of speed and you tap that unit of speed you get back 1 unit of speed... but if you burn that 1 unit of speed you actually get back 10 units of speed. 

That's it, but you either use that 10x speed in an instant burst of power, or store it in metal mind. And to compound everything, all the times you would need to have a lot of metals waiting in your stomach. 

F-steel does have its limits. Even with A-pewter and F-gold, you get to the point when air resistance will make you slow down faster than F-steel speeds you up - and you would require constant gold compounding healing and pewter just so you wouldn't be burned down by the air. 

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

My friend wants to know how fast steel Compounders could possibly go, can they run up walls or over water like the Flash?

Blightsong (paraphrased)

*jokingly* Can they run through time?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Steelrunners can resist a lot things due to the power, like they can withstand the Gs they are out through, but they can't ignore wind resistance and friction. They will burn up if they start running too quickly.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/93/#e2695

 

 

 

 

 

I can't see how anyone would be able to win a fight with full Radiant. That is just ridiculous amount of powers for one person. Even with F-steel, all full Radient needs is to open perpendicularity and you can't kill him. He can soulcast air around into whatever toxic gas he wants, soulcast ground into the Sun, and soulcast Fullborn metal minds into something, removing Fullborn's power completely. Fullborn even with Atium seams just weak compared to him. Fullborn is ridiculously powerful already, but full Radient is a demi-god. 

 

However I doubt there ever will be one, and there was Fullborn already. Not to mention, if full Radiant is binded by all oath, which might restrict his powers a lot. Still he will win.

Depsite all the powers full Radiant would have, I would still choose to be Fullborn, as that just offers me a bit more useful feruchemic attributes, like mental speed, or determination. The biggest downside to it, is that I would not have 10 sprens flying around me and being Awesome - this is the biggest advantage of being full Radiant! 

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3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Half-lashing up wouldn't be enough the moment you open a portal to 60bil. solar masses hole in space. You would literally need like 30bil lashings away from portal or even much more depending on distance from the black hole the portal is opened. That ridiculous. The moment you open the portal, gravity is affecting you as well. Or the portal itself might get ripped by gravity and collapse. Even with perpendicularity in your hand, I doubt you could not get pulled into it, as that would be almost shard level of investiture just to prevent you from falling into it. 

And not to mention that you opening a portal to a place billions years in the past and there is not black hole there anymore as it just moved an you don't know where it is currently. 

But cool idea, love it anyway, but there are better places to teleport Fullborn into - just send him to the space close to the sun. 

 

That's it, but you either use that 10x speed in an instant burst of power, or store it in metal mind. And to compound everything, all the times you would need to have a lot of metals waiting in your stomach. 

F-steel does have its limits. Even with A-pewter and F-gold, you get to the point when air resistance will make you slow down faster than F-steel speeds you up - and you would require constant gold compounding healing and pewter just so you wouldn't be burned down by the air. 

  Hide contents

Questioner (paraphrased)

My friend wants to know how fast steel Compounders could possibly go, can they run up walls or over water like the Flash?

Blightsong (paraphrased)

*jokingly* Can they run through time?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Steelrunners can resist a lot things due to the power, like they can withstand the Gs they are out through, but they can't ignore wind resistance and friction. They will burn up if they start running too quickly.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/93/#e2695

 

 

 

 

 

I can't see how anyone would be able to win a fight with full Radiant. That is just ridiculous amount of powers for one person. Even with F-steel, all full Radient needs is to open perpendicularity and you can't kill him. He can soulcast air around into whatever toxic gas he wants, soulcast ground into the Sun, and soulcast Fullborn metal minds into something, removing Fullborn's power completely. Fullborn even with Atium seams just weak compared to him. Fullborn is ridiculously powerful already, but full Radient is a demi-god. 

 

However I doubt there ever will be one, and there was Fullborn already. Not to mention, if full Radiant is binded by all oath, which might restrict his powers a lot. Still he will win.

Depsite all the powers full Radiant would have, I would still choose to be Fullborn, as that just offers me a bit more useful feruchemic attributes, like mental speed, or determination. The biggest downside to it, is that I would not have 10 sprens flying around me and being Awesome - this is the biggest advantage of being full Radiant! 

So you don't have to have the metal in your stomach.... so long as it is pierced into your skin you can burn it.  And given allomancers ability to titrate burn rate from a trickle to a flare and even a duralumin burst I would say a fullborn with any practice at all with their powers would have fine tuned control over just how much they are using both normal tapping and compounding.  

Bleeder moved so fast people weren't seeing her and that was without compounding.  If the fight started within eyeshot of eachother the fullborn would be leeching and snapping the radiants neck before the end of the starting guns bang and with enough strength and weight that plate wouldn't mean a thing.  

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9 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

You wouldn't need more than a few seconds is my point.  

My understanding of compounding is that if you have 1 unit of speed and you tap that unit of speed you get back 1 unit of speed... but if you burn that 1 unit of speed you actually get back 10 units of speed.  Turning a net neutral magic system into an extremely powerful net positive.  If I am reading into what Miles describes it as then it literally is getting 10x the potential benefit from the metalminds meaning if Marasi had been able to burn steel and were pierced by the bands then she would have been able to do what she did via allomantically burning the steel away for 10x as long or condense the magic shorter and push it even faster.  

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Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

 

We don't know a ton about feruchemical nicrosil yet but there is also a world where a fullborn with the aid of duralumin could push and pull different parts of shardplate and straight up draw and quarter the radiant as well. 

We also have duralumin compounding which could do some insane stuff (part of me wants to see if it could turn touch metals into ranged usage in which case we could see nicrobursting and leeching from a distance).  

Compounding is using allomancy to fuel feruchemy.

So you get the same amount of feruchemical power out as you would allomantic power if you burned an empty metalmind of the same size.

If it gave you 10x the trait your allomancy would have to become stronger depending on how full the metalmind was.

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

Half-lashing up wouldn't be enough the moment you open a portal to 60bil. solar masses hole in space. You would literally need like 30bil lashings away from portal or even much more depending on distance from the black hole the portal is opened. That ridiculous. The moment you open the portal, gravity is affecting you as well. Or the portal itself might get ripped by gravity and collapse. Even with perpendicularity in your hand, I doubt you could not get pulled into it, as that would be almost shard level of investiture just to prevent you from falling into it. 

And not to mention that you opening a portal to a place billions years in the past and there is not black hole there anymore as it just moved an you don't know where it is currently. 

But cool idea, love it anyway, but there are better places to teleport Fullborn into - just send him to the space close to the sun. 

Fair point on the black hole moving, and on the sun bit.

I don't know about the gravity of a black hole affeting them however, that would only work if lashings work strictly off Roshars gravity, which would be a little weird, but I suppose it's possible. Or it could be the users native gravity, which would also mean they are affected. But if they work based on nearest noticeable source of gravitational pull, it could work.

I don't know, I guess we'll have to wait for the space age for answers to that one.

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Bleeder moved so fast people weren't seeing her and that was without compounding.  If the fight started within eyeshot of eachother the fullborn would be leeching and snapping the radiants neck before the end of the starting guns bang and with enough strength and weight that plate wouldn't mean a thing.  

It was a crowded room already, and we don't know that no one saw her, only that the govenor's brother didn't.

Edited by Frustration
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1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Compounding is using allomancy to fuel feruchemy.

So you get the same amount of feruchemical power out as you would allomantic power if you burned an empty metalmind of the same size.

If it gave you 10x the trait your allomancy would have to become stronger depending on how full the metalmind was.

10x is based on what has been said multiple times, though I generally am more along your lines of thinking that its a metal just being burned and the amount of a trait you get is based on how strong you are as an Allomancer. However that presents its own problems as that could potentially mean it gets multiplied much more than 10x. A couple small beads of Pewter could last an hour or more flairing them so who knows how long normal burning would last. Spend a couple minutes storing with strength then burning them would give you hours worth of strength.

 

Edited by StanLemon
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3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Fair point on the black hole moving, and on the sun bit.

I don't know about the gravity of a black hole affeting them however, that would only work if lashings work strictly off Roshars gravity, which would be a little weird, but I suppose it's possible. Or it could be the users native gravity, which would also mean they are affected. But if they work based on nearest noticeable source of gravitational pull, it could work.

I don't know, I guess we'll have to wait for the space age for answers to that one.

Well tbf I don't know, I just put some big number to it. Most likely lashings would be a rosharian g as that's what Radiants are familiar with, so with a black hole of that size it would be near infinite amounts of lashings. So do not open the portal to a black hole.

Buuuuuut, why not just take ridiculous amounts of investiture and collapse it to small space, to create your very own, pocket black hole. Perfect! Full Radiant doesn't need a portal, he could just made one. And you don't need sun-masses of investiture, the smaller the better, gem-mass black hole would evaporat from Hawkins radiation within fraction of the second and explode, killing Fullborn in the instant - while Full Radient would transfer through perpendicularity to probably safe CR.

4 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Bleeder moved so fast people weren't seeing her and that was without compounding.  If the fight started within eyeshot of eachother the fullborn would be leeching and snapping the radiants neck before the end of the starting guns bang and with enough strength and weight that plate wouldn't mean a thing.  

Wax saw her moving moving from a window to a governor resistance. So that's not that fast. And in the governor's brother home, Bleeder still moved much slower than a speed of sound.

Leeching through the plate would be extremely difficult if nearly impossible, and when Full-Radiant opens perpendicularity in his hand, any damage to a plate would mean nothing, as it will just heal instantly using light from perpendicularity. He could soulcast away his metals and Fullborn is gone just to Allomancer. The moment Radiant opens perpendicularity Fullborn can't win. Speed is the only way for him to strike, and even striking with a lot of weight and strength, he would have to be able to withstand the same strike that he delivers to Radiant - 3rd law of motion - and that's the problem, as any strike that he can heal (no mater of tapping pewter), Radiant can as well. Snapping neck won't kill Radiant.

Fullborn is ridiculously powerful, but Full-Radiant us just on the another level - he is bale to manipulate fundamental forces of the Cosmere. This is just shard powers. 

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I think it really depends on whether or not I have the same basic lifestyle or if I’m going to be fighting people but overall I’m going to have to go with fullborn for a few reasons like first of gemstones are expensive and most metals aren’t that expensive. Also immortality through either storing connection or compounding youth is super tempting 

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Has anyone considered if the Radiant Plate could simply form around the Fullborn and decide they have to stand still? Could they harm the Plate somehow?

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