On Aethers (Includes Secret Project and potentially AoN information)

[Firesong]

I am curious about the Aethers.

But with what we know about them, all they really do is allow you to expand the Aether from your body. And this seems like it might be the same, given SP1 shows the Verdant Aether being involved with vines, which expand when introduced to water, so it seems to be the same as Roseite, just with a different material. 

But this does raise confusion on how it would work with substances like "Midnight", which are more abstract notions and less physical. 

So it does make me curious about how other Aethers work, is there any that do more than just, grow out tendrils of the relevant substance (We know some stayed from Aether of Night)? 

Also, theory, the Lichen-substance on White Sand is actually Aether. Both require water in order to function properly, and allow the user to control them at the cost of using up the water in their body. Furthermore, our intro to Aethers was in the book that had a lot to do with Autonomy, and Brandon in a WoB indicated that it was important to fit them in there. Which hints at a connection. 

[lacrossedeamon]

Further theory, the mold in Elantris that seemingly feeds on the Dor also related?

As for the other Aethers it seems like in AoN there is one that can control light and another that can control darkness which is weird since its actually just the absence of something but I assume it has something to do with the cognitive realm and platonic forms.

Edited December 2, 2022 by lacrossedeamon

[Isilel]

9 hours ago, Firesong said:

Furthermore, our intro to Aethers was in the book that had a lot to do with Autonomy, and Brandon in a WoB indicated that it was important to fit them in there. Which hints at a connection. 

Could Autonomy have corrupted an Aether? Is this the source of her army? In the unpublished "Aether of Night"

Spoiler

there was a Ferrous(?) Aether that allowed people to transform themselves into semi-sentiment pieces of metal infrastructure, why not into an army of terminators?

 

[lacrossedeamon]

On 12/1/2022 at 6:30 PM, Firesong said:

But this does raise confusion on how it would work with substances like "Midnight", which are more abstract notions and less physical. 

Just thought of this. Controlling what composes Midnight Essence, Nightmares, and Nightblood's black smoke.

[bmcclure7]

On 12/1/2022 at 5:30 PM, Firesong said:

I am curious about the Aethers.

But with what we know about them, all they really do is allow you to expand the Aether from your body. And this seems like it might be the same, given SP1 shows the Verdant Aether being involved with vines, which expand when introduced to water, so it seems to be the same as Roseite, just with a different material. 

But this does raise confusion on how it would work with substances like "Midnight", which are more abstract notions and less physical. 

So it does make me curious about how other Aethers work, is there any that do more than just, grow out tendrils of the relevant substance (We know some stayed from Aether of Night)? 

Also, theory, the Lichen-substance on White Sand is actually Aether. Both require water in order to function properly, and allow the user to control them at the cost of using up the water in their body. Furthermore, our intro to Aethers was in the book that had a lot to do with Autonomy, and Brandon in a WoB indicated that it was important to fit them in there. Which hints at a connection. 

Do you know if the water Cost was in the original story?

[lacrossedeamon]

39 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Do you know if the water Cost was in the original story?

Talking to another person that has read it, it doesn't seem to have a water cost in the original story. The controlled substance is called "Living Night" while in Dalinar's flashback in WoK Midnight Essence is called "living night". I assume we will be seeing a lot more of this in SP1 as the power of the Sorceress of the Midnight Sea.

 

On 12/2/2022 at 3:48 AM, Isilel said:

Could Autonomy have corrupted an Aether? Is this the source of her army? In the unpublished "Aether of Night"

  Reveal hidden contents

there was a Ferrous(?) Aether that allowed people to transform themselves into semi-sentiment pieces of metal infrastructure, why not into an army of terminators?

 

Given the seeming connection between this Living Night and Midnight Essence I wonder if Re-Shephir was an aetherbound before being Unmade.

[bmcclure7]

2 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Talking to another person that has read it, it doesn't seem to have a water cost in the original story. The controlled substance is called "Living Night" while in Dalinar's flashback in WoK Midnight Essence is called "living night". I assume we will be seeing a lot more of this in SP1 as the power of the Sorceress of the Midnight Sea.

 

Given the seeming connection between this Living Night and Midnight Essence I wonder if Re-Shephir was an aetherbound before being Unmade.

I wonder what other changes he has made? I heard something about a Aether that could teleport in the original Novel is that right?

[lacrossedeamon]

10 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

I wonder what other changes he has made? I heard something about a Aether that could teleport in the original Novel is that right?

From my understanding, yes. I've only read a few comments about the novel as the Coppermind page is rather sparse but it seems both the Night Aether and the Illuminous Aether have teleportation abilities with I think one focused on the self and the other on others. I haven't read any of the trunked novels before but this one might be my first because I'm so curious.

[King-A-Train]

9 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

I wonder what other changes he has made? I heard something about a Aether that could teleport in the original Novel is that right?

There were two that could teleport, the Night aether could teleport the person who held it.
 

The opposite “light” aether (can’t remember the name) teleported anyone except the person who held it. The aether holder touched the teleportee and off they went  

For reference there were 6 aethers, 3 pairs of opposites. Although they weren’t that clear an opposite, you can see why he wanted to play with the magic system.

[bmcclure7]

8 minutes ago, King-A-Train said:

There were two that could teleport, the Night aether could teleport the person who held it.
 

The opposite “light” aether (can’t remember the name) teleported anyone except the person who held it. The aether holder touched the teleportee and off they went  

For reference there were 6 aethers, 3 pairs of opposites. Although they weren’t that clear an opposite, you can see why he wanted to play with the magic system.

I wonder if they will lose or have this ability restricted in Cannon . What was the opposite of the stone one we saw in LM?

[King-A-Train]

Just now, bmcclure7 said:

I wonder if they will lose or have this ability restricted in Cannon . What was the opposite of the stone one we saw in LM?

The vine one, Verdant. Shooting vines out of yourself to swing or tie people up seemed to be the main uses. 

[bmcclure7]

1 minute ago, King-A-Train said:

The vine one, Verdant. Shooting vines out of yourself to swing or tie people up seemed to be the main uses. 

I thought that was the opposite of the animals one? The one that allows you to graft animal parts on to you? I think I heard someone mentioned that back in the SP forums. 

[King-A-Train]

The opposite of that one (Beastarin) was Ferrous which is connecting to machines, even becoming machines. But you couldn’t come back from becoming a machine from what I remember. You couldn’t become a terminator then turn back. 

Beastarin also required losing a body part to gain the animal part. Bear claw, owl eye etc. 

As you can see the system needed some work, there was some similarities with the groupings but not diametrical opposites. 

[bmcclure7]

39 minutes ago, King-A-Train said:

The opposite of that one (Beastarin) was Ferrous which is connecting to machines, even becoming machines. But you couldn’t come back from becoming a machine from what I remember. You couldn’t become a terminator then turn back. 

Beastarin also required losing a body part to gain the animal part. Bear claw, owl eye etc. 

As you can see the system needed some work, there was some similarities with the groupings but not diametrical opposites. 

I wonder if the body part cost will be removed , because of the universal water cost.

[King-A-Train]

13 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

I wonder if the body part cost will be removed , because of the universal water cost.

I think the whole system will be rewritten. Water wasn’t a requirement before, and Rosite has changed name from Amberite (but it was still rose coloured so made no sense). 

All aethers also had links to what was presumably Preservation and Ruin under different names. So that has all changed. 

[lacrossedeamon]

1 hour ago, King-A-Train said:

All aethers also had links to what was presumably Preservation and Ruin under different names. So that has all changed. 

Maybe not completely changed if Living Night is Midnight Essence as WoBs have connected Midnight Essence to Nightmares, Nightmares to the black smoke of Nightblood, and then I think there is WoB connecting that black smoke to why Ruin's gaseous Investiture is a black mist or something.

Edited December 4, 2022 by lacrossedeamon

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, King-A-Train said:

I think the whole system will be rewritten. Water wasn’t a requirement before, and Rosite has changed name from Amberite (but it was still rose coloured so made no sense). 

All aethers also had links to what was presumably Preservation and Ruin under different names. So that has all changed. 

Definetly some reworking going on Still Brandon has said how much he likes the magic system in AoN so some of the core must still be the same. Do you know how Rosite compare to Amberite as for as the mechanics of how the Aethers works? Is there any notable difference?

[lacrossedeamon]

Oh isn't the implication that there are 12 Aethers now? So that would be a major change.

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Oh isn't the implication that there are 12 Aethers now? So that would be a major change.

 Well I would consider that more of an expectation  rather than a reworking.   Kind of like how we got the new metals in era 2. 

 That said I really wonder what the other 6 are. If they already have plants, animal, machine,  light, darkness,  Stone,  Not sure what else Brandon could add to this, Maybe something to do with time?   This whole conversation makes me really want to read secret project one. 

[King-A-Train]

8 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Definetly some reworking going on Still Brandon has said how much he likes the magic system in AoN so some of the core must still be the same. Do you know how Rosite compare to Amberite as for as the mechanics of how the Aethers works? Is there any notable difference?

I didn’t notice major differences, you could make swords and power armour depending on your strength. 

Also once they disconnected from the Amberite it crumbled, all seems very similar.

The addition of requiring water is new. 

8 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Oh isn't the implication that there are 12 Aethers now? So that would be a major change.

I think so, makes it more interesting. 
 

6 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

  That said I really wonder what the other 6 are. If they already have plants, animal, machine,  light, darkness,  Stone,  Not sure what else Brandon could add to this, Maybe something to do with time?   This whole conversation makes me really want to read secret project one. 

I don’t know what else he could add. Will be interesting to see.

I’m looking forward to an Aether book. I liked a lot of Aether of Night, just needed some tweaking. 

[lacrossedeamon]

Here's another theory: Is the Living Night related to the Evil on Threnody (although it's possible it's fain instead) and the Night Brigade? What if all three SP are connected by this throughline?

[ArchangelCaesar]

On 12/4/2022 at 11:04 PM, lacrossedeamon said:

Here's another theory: Is the Living Night related to the Evil on Threnody (although it's possible it's fain instead) and the Night Brigade? What if all three SP are connected by this throughline?

It's possible, but I had a theory that the Thrill was actually a corrupted version of the Evil on Threnody. Overall, I think it makes sense, although a recent WoB throws a wrench in this:
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15875

Edited December 7, 2022 by ArchangelCaesar
inserting quote

[lacrossedeamon]

On 12/7/2022 at 11:40 AM, ArchangelCaesar said:

It's possible, but I had a theory that the Thrill was actually a corrupted version of the Evil on Threnody. Overall, I think it makes sense, although a recent WoB throws a wrench in this:
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15875

The way he phrased that as "count" implies there is some wiggle room. I have a theory that Re-Shephir might be an aetherbound to Night.

[bmcclure7]

3 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

The way he phrased that as "count" implies there is some wiggle room. I have a theory that Re-Shephir might be an aetherbound to Night.

Isn't she an unmade?

[lacrossedeamon]

13 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Isn't she an unmade?

She is but I meant before she was Unmade.