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Mistborn V.S. 3rd ideal Windrunner


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Mistborn V.S. 3rd ideal Windrunner   

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  1. 1. who would win a fully trained mistborn or a 3rd ideal windrunner. give reasons as for your answer. (New people, please vote after reading at least some replies)



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9 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Hence my argument that the mistborn could specifically out sprint a windrunner ground up (until they hit a height the mistborn can't maintain an anchor at).  

The home field advantage argument is just as bad for both sides.  Metals at least exist on Roshar.  If the fight were on Scadrial the radiant wouldn't have access to more light than what they could carry and their spren (thus their surges) aren't going to be there at all. 

I'm pretty sure a Mistborn couldn't burn metals on Roshar. I think it's the fact of how the Scadrian metals are invested that allows them to produce the effect they do.

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17 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The home field advantage argument is just as bad for both sides.  Metals at least exist on Roshar.  If the fight were on Scadrial the radiant wouldn't have access to more light than what they could carry and their spren (thus their surges) aren't going to be there at all. 

the spren could travel with them through the cognitive realm.

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13 minutes ago, Ookla the Unknowing said:

I'm pretty sure a Mistborn couldn't burn metals on Roshar. I think it's the fact of how the Scadrian metals are invested that allows them to produce the effect they do.

I don't think that it has anything to do with your location, but with your genetics, so that if a Mistborn is born on there planet, and then find a way to travel than they would be able to do it

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1 minute ago, Monk of Dakhor said:

I don't think that it has anything to do with your location, but with your genetics, so that if a Mistborn is born on there planet, and then find a way to travel than they would be able to do it

You're right. Here's the WOB

Spoiler

Questioner

Will iron mined-- created and mined on Roshar work to power Allomancy on Scadrial? This is a clarification from earlier session.

Brandon Sanderson

Um, hehe… Okay, so what do you want to have happen, talk to me. Explain to me--

Questioner

…Iron is iron, does it have the same effect if it will be iron that was created on Roshar--

Brandon Sanderosn

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Questioner

--power Allomancy on Scadrial--

Brandon Sanderson

The metals are themselves-- and I've said this before, I think, but-- the metals themselves-- where you get it is not relevant.

Moderator

So if say Wit is drinking flakes on Roshar, then those flakes could be Roshar-derived.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

However it should be noted that the Windrunner should be able to use other forms of investiture to power surges, I think.

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5 minutes ago, Ookla the platypus said:

can a windrunner unlock the investiture in metals to power surges? I'm pretty sure they can do it with Breaths, but I don't know for sure.

Metals don't have the power.  They are just the key that unlocks investiture to empower the mistborn directly from the spiritual realm I believe.  

Biochromatic breath and allomancy are the most portable magics in the cosmere.  Others are very tied to their home worlds. 

Edited by Tamriel Wolfsbaine
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44 minutes ago, Monk of Dakhor said:

I would also say that the fight would also depend on what the Radiant summons their spren as, because, if possible, what I would do in this situation is make a spren shield with a weapon as a part of it, like a shield with a spear coming out the top, which would give the Radiant the advantage of having a shield that would be very hard to break, if possible at all and not be a metal that a Mistborn could push or pull, but if that is impossible than ignore what I said because it would be invalid.

though possible I don't think a weapon shield would be very useful if the fact that it would be clunky and not very easy to use especially assuming that the shield is strapped to your arm using said weapon you would easily be able to get hit pf balance. not to mention the fact that this wouldn't be a weapon someone would have any training in.

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2 hours ago, Wits instant noodles said:

 

assuming that your reverse lashing the floor or a wall you would have to stay in almost the same spot witch would negates the radiant other lashings. This meaning a coin could very well hit a radiant as long as they're in air, witch is most the time with a wind runner. Also as previously stated a shield would work better but also would either be made of metals to stop coins at witch point the mistborn can use the shield or if you make it out of wood the coins would pierce it. also if they were to make a shard shield then they would lose there weapon every time they were attached not to mention I don't think you can lash a shard anything.  

 

 

Lurchers used wooden shields to block coins.

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4 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Lurchers used wooden shields to block coins.

yes but assuming that this battle goes on for a while repeated hitting with coins would eventually break a wooden shield. I could be totally wrong but I imagine it would break after repeated hits with a coin moving that fast. also assuming its a era two mistborn it could easily be a bullet being pushed and just a bullet alone can break wood easily. 

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1 hour ago, Ookla the platypus said:

it's definitely possible. But can radiants use Breath? 

Probably not directly, but I think (with the right knowledge) you could simply Command a breath to recharge a Gem and convert to an equivalent amount of Light (Storm-, Life-, Void-, etc) but it would then have all the same properties as the Light, such as stormlight's leakiness.  WOB says Breaths are some of the easiest to fuel other Magics, they're just super rare and restricted in Supply. Or it's possible that a Bonded Radiant would just burn the Breath if they had no Stormlight, closer to how Nightblood or a Divine Breath can somehow Eat any available Invesiture without needing a specific type.  The latter is supported by the fact that so far Surges behave the same regardless of the flavor of Light used to fuel it.  

 

Quote

 

Questioner

You've mentioned in the last couple of afterwords that you get interesting results when you mix types of Investiture.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Twinborn and Surgebinders on Roshar. Can you mix a form of magic with a source of Investiture? Can say Vasher use Stormlight in place of Breaths or would that require tampering via Hemalurgy or something like that?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of them require tampering. Some of them are a little bit easier than others. It depends on really what you mean. For instance, white sand can be charged in the presence of any Investiture right? It's just-- But that's not really using the magic, it's just charging it with other Investiture. But, you know, it would be very easy, for instance, if you can get yourself Invested-- Like, for instance, it'd be very easy to use Breaths to fuel Windrunning right? Because the oath and the bond and things like that are going to make it pretty easy. However fueling Allomancy with something else is going to be a lot harder. So it really depends on the magic. It's the sort of thing that there will be lots of science in the books dedicated to making happen in the future and you will find some of the processes these work easier than other ones.

DragonCon 2016 (Sept. 3, 2016)

 

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Can a Surgebinder use Breath like they can Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible and not really that hard to make work.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

 
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3 hours ago, Ookla the Wandering said:

Probably not directly, but I think (with the right knowledge) you could simply Command a breath to recharge a Gem and convert to an equivalent amount of Light (Storm-, Life-, Void-, etc) but it would then have all the same properties as the Light, such as stormlight's leakiness.  WOB says Breaths are some of the easiest to fuel other Magics, they're just super rare and restricted in Supply. Or it's possible that a Bonded Radiant would just burn the Breath if they had no Stormlight, closer to how Nightblood or a Divine Breath can somehow Eat any available Invesiture without needing a specific type.  The latter is supported by the fact that so far Surges behave the same regardless of the flavor of Light used to fuel it.  

 

 

 

 

I agree that they probably can.  But biochromatic breath is awesomely sticky innate investiture where the lights on Roshar are all leaky kinetic investiture.  I feel like biochromatic breath would be wasted on surges as I can't picture how you could return it to yourself after using it.  

  

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1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I agree that they probably can.  But biochromatic breath is awesomely sticky innate investiture where the lights on Roshar are all leaky kinetic investiture.  I feel like biochromatic breath would be wasted on surges as I can't picture how you could return it to yourself after using it.  

  

Ima be honest I don't remember what "breaths" are, would you reminding me what those are?

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Okay, there’s a lot of nuance in the discussion, and I'm here for it! Here are my thoughts. Please feel free to poke as many holes in this breakdown as you find – this is based on my own personal understanding of the magic systems more than exact references. 

First, let’s set the arena these two are fighting in. We want to avoid inherit advantages (ie, Highstorms and a metal rich environment) so I’ll set the battlefield arena as a flat stone plane.

Now, the amount of Investiture each combatant has access to will certainly affect the fight, but for the sake of the argument, let’s say that each fighter has access to the same amount of raw Investiture. In the Mistborn’s case, I’m assuming they have an average quantity of metal from the period they are from (eg, more Steel and Iron than Duralumin).

I'll break this down by Category where I feel it's relevant.

Investiture Stores: A Radiant brimming with Stormlight will burn through Investiture faster than a Mistborn would run out of metals (excluding duralumin exhaustion). As mentioned by @StanLemon, Brandon has written scenes of Radiants running out of Stormlight in minutes compared to Mistborn running out in hours.

Verdict: Mistborn Advantage

Comparable Abilities

Aerial Mobility: Regarding one’s ability to ‘fly’. Here, I feel the Windrunner has the upper hand. They're not reliant on external factors to maneuver, unlike a Mistborn which (in this arena) would have to rely on coins they shoot or plant into the ground. A Windrunner could also travel higher and further than a Mistborn, considering one could potentially reach space. 

Verdict: Windrunner Advantage

Aerial Speed: This factor is trickier. As mentioned by @Tamriel Wolfsbaine, a Mistborn likely has a stronger factor of instant acceleration, but a Radiant can likely reach a higher top speed. Again though, this instant acceleration is dependent on having grounded sources of metal to Push and Pull on. 

In this arena, this would be harder to accomplish. Likely, the greatest acceleration for a Mistborn would be vertically ‘up’, via Pushing coins into the ground. As the Windrunner could get above the Mistborn, I feel this verticality would be overshadowed. 

Verdict: Windrunner Advantage

Physical Strength: Pewter beats Stormlight here, I think. As stated in this WOB Pewter roughly doubles a person’s strength, and triples it when flared. Whilst Stormlight does grant a strength increase, I don't think it surpasses a tripled base value (though Huio did battle a building sized Hordeling - I'll say that's comparable to the Koloss).

Verdict: Mistborn Advantage

Physical Endurance: This is a bit harder to separate in my opinion. Pewter has been shown to keep the body going beyond the point of feasible death, but that requires an influx of metal (Pewter drag). Likewise, Stormlight is said to act like an adrenaline rush, urging the Surgebinder to action and motion. Personally, I feel the difference here is negligible while both combatants are still invested. 

Verdict: No Inherit Advantage

Healing: Stormlight Healing is more equivalent to tapping a goldmind then burning Pewter. The Coppermind mentions that even a Pewtar savant would heal slower than someone tapping health. We also have no indication that Pewter would be able to heal a Shardblade wound and, even if it did, it would likely require more metal than the Mistborn would be carrying.

Verdict: Windrunner Advantage

Unique Abilities:

Emotional Allomancy: This is going to depend a lot on the individual. Someone like Kaladin could be hit quite hard, but someone like the Lopen would likely be less effected. Overall though, Windrunners tend to have experience in open warfare and overcoming strong emotions (especially bridgemen). This could perhaps give them some advantages.

Another advantage the Windrunner has is their Spren, who the Mistborn wouldn't be able to see or probably target (tangent on this – we don’t know fully know how Emotional Allomancy would affect Spren). Still, a Spren could probably help pull a Radiant out of their stupor, and we’ve seen that being aware of Emotional Allomancy can dampen the effect. 

Verdict: Situational Mistborn Advantage

Sprenblades: Here, we find a major win condition for the Radiants. A Mistborn hit by a Sprenblade would be unlikely to recover, especially when we consider the transformative nature of a Sprenblade, which the Mistborn would be unaware of. 

Verdict: Windrunner advantage

Reverse Lashings/ Full Lashings: Another advantage for a Windrunner would be utilzing Reverse Lashings. They could imbue it onto a Sprenshield to draw a Mistborn’s coin fire, or draw the fire to a place on the ground. A Full Lashing that binds the Mistborn to the ground could also be an effective tactic. 

Still, a Mistborn burning Tin would likely be able to see the sprays of Stormlight and would probably avoid being caught unless physical contact was made.

Verdict: Situational Windrunner Advantage 

Leeching: A good Mistborn tactic is to Leech the Windrunners Stormlight, making them vulnerable to a wide range of attacks. However, the disadvantage here is that the Mistborn must make physical contact with the Windrunner, leaving them vulnerable to Sprenblade attacks (which aren’t reliant on Stormlight)

The closer distance also leaves more room for the Windrunner to apply Reverse and Full Lashings as well.

Verdict: No Inherit Advantage (High Risk vs Reward)

Duralumin: A more reliable choice for the Mistborn. A well placed Duralumin-Pewter blow or Duralumin Steelpush could leave the Radiant vulnerable while they heal. A Duralumin-Zinc Rioting could potentially stun the Windrunner as well, and a Duralumin-Leech could drain Stormlight much faster. 

The biggest downside to this is the wiping of internal reserves and the metal’s overall rarity, meaning the Mistborn is unlikely to be carrying much of it. Still, an effective use of the metal would prove devastating. 

Verdict: Mistborn Advantage.

Speed Bubbles: This is a weird one. The two biggest advantages I can see is the Mistborn using them to reorientate themselves during combat, in order to enact surprise attacks on the Radiant, and as a ‘pause’ to heal from wounds. 

Honestly though, I feel that both situations are weirdly ineffectual. A good strike from a Sprenblade is likely unhealable, and reorientation for surprise attacks would be healed by the Radiant, and would be hard to pull off if both combatants were in the air. 

A Slowness Bubble would be one way of extending the duel to drain a Radiant’s Stormlight, but to be honest that’s not really in the spirit of the question. Plus a Radiant could always enter the bubble and bring the fight to the Mistborn, or stop draining their Stormlight. 

Verdict: No Inherit Advantage

Bronze Seeking: I wouldn’t consider this an inherit advantage other than the Mistborn knowing where the Radiant and their external Lashings (ie. Full Lashing) are. They could also determine this with Tin. Maybe it would allow them to see detect their Spren, but in most cases that would just point to their weapon. 

Verdict: No Inherit Advantage

Atium: Now this is the Ace in the Hole for the Mistborn. Atium would allow a Mistborn to dodge Sprenblade attacks, allowing them to Leech the Radiant’s Stormlight more effectively. However, we should consider the sheer rarity of the metal. The nobles have access to some in Era 1, but a single Mistborn is unlikely to be carrying more than a bead, and it barely exists in Era 2.

The question is whether the Mistborn exhausts their Atium before the Windrunner exhausts their Stormlight. A skilled Mistborn, as mentioned, would certainly 'toggle' this ability for  when they're in close range, but if the fight continues their Atium could still expire. Still, it's a major advantage if the Mistborn has it. 

Verdict: Mistborn Advantage

Experience and Skill:

This isn't perhaps as relevant, but I feel it's important to consider the cultural and societal impacts behind a Mistborn and a Windrunner.

Within the days of the Final Empire, the average Mistborn would’ve been a noble and trained as an assassin. They were also a rarity, likely trained to fight guards and Mistings, rather than other Mistborn; people at their same power level. Therefore, I feel that the probability they sparred against someone of equal skill in a life or death situation would’ve been fairly uncommon. I also feel that their mindset would've likely been an entitled one (judging by a lot of the nobles we see), more used to overcoming their 'common' enemies with brute Allomantic power. 

Compare that to Windrunners. Either Pre-Recreance or during the True Desolation, they trained as scouts and soldiers; used to regular battle. Especially when we consider that True Desolation Windrunners are constantly fighting the Fused - beings at or surpassing their own level of skill and power. They also come from much wider backgrounds, which I feel would make them overall less likely to underestimate an opponent. In fact, considering their oaths, a lack of entitlement is baked into the protection of even those they hate.

Therefore, I feel that the Windrunner would have an advantage here too in a one-on-one dual. They'd be less likely to act rashly and more used to facing an immensely powerful opponent. Now, this isn't to say the Mistborn would be foolhardy or reckless, but their societal upbringing and their more stealth-aligned training wouldn't serve them as well in this situation. 

Verdict: Windrunner Advantage

Likely Combat Outcomes:

Close Quarters: The Windrunner has the advantage. A single Sprenblade strike against the Mistborn's spine ends the fight, not to mention Full and Reverse Lashings. The Mistborn will also be unaware of the Spren's shape-changing properties; they might confidently dodge a sword thrust, only for the Spren to become a lance, skewering them.

A Mistborn’s best bet is using Atium to avoid the Sprenblade, followed by a Duralumin-Powered Leeching to drain the Stormlight from the Radiant, followed by a series of dagger blows and coin shots. Problem is, they're unlikely to do this first try as they don’t know how their opponents’ powers work. It’s more likely they’d try using Pewter to stomp and stab the Radiant, as they’re used to facing weaker opponents than themselves. Due to Stormlight healing, this will prove ineffectual. 

Otherwise, they would likely try a Steel Push using the buttons on a Radiant's uniform, which the Radiant can counter with a Lashing of their own.  

Long Range: A Mistborn can pepper a Radiant with Coins, and maybe throw them around using the steel buttons on their uniform. However, a Radiant could create a Sprenshield to block the incoming fire, and counteract the Push's and Pulls with Lashings again. 

Still, a long range battle in this arena doesn't massively favour the Mistborn, as their traversal will be limited. A Radiant is likely more capable of closing the distance due to their faster top speed and the Mistborn having no fixed metal objects to Push or Pull on, negating some of their faster acceleration.

If the battle gets close, the Windrunner has the advantage.

Final Verdict:

The Mistborn wins in a battle of attrition, forcing the Radiant to drain all of their Stormlight, either by keeping their distance, Leeching it away or causing enough damage to force them to heal. 

The Windrunner wins by slicing the Mistborn’s spine with their Sprenblade, a weapon the Mistborn can’t block or anticipate without Atium (which they would be unlikely to burn on their first attack).

In my opinion, I feel that the Windrunner wins more often than the Mistborn. It’s close, especially with Atium and Duralumin, but the fact is a Radiant can heal from most damage a Mistborn could reasonably inflict, whereas a Mistborn can’t heal from a solid Sprenblade strike. 

Again, all of this is based on personal understanding. If I've missed something, please feel free to correct me. :)

Thanks all!
 

Edited by Werewolff Studios
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10 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I agree that they probably can.  But biochromatic breath is awesomely sticky innate investiture where the lights on Roshar are all leaky kinetic investiture.  I feel like biochromatic breath would be wasted on surges as I can't picture how you could return it to yourself after using it.  

  

Oh, 1000% a wasted use of what is probably the most powerful and versatile Investiture out there, but if they ever figure out how to manufacture Breaths from some other Investiture (and there are several theories on how to do it, mine involves feruchemical Gold Healing and mild psychological abuse) they'd be able to move huge amounts of investiture around the cosmere and use it for basically anything. 

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7 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

They could imbue it onto a Sprenshield to draw a Mistborn’s coin fire, or draw the fire to a place on the ground.

Perhaps there is some source I am missing proving this but I believe that if a spren weapon is too invested to push or pull on it would be too invested to imbue with stormlight.  Still a spren shield is a great option for blocking projectiles but I don't believe it would be able to be sprayed with enough stormlight to act as an anchor for reverse lashing. 

 

7 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Speed Bubbles: This is a weird one. The two biggest advantages I can see is the Mistborn using them to reorientate themselves during combat, in order to enact surprise attacks on the Radiant, and as a ‘pause’ to heal from wounds. 

Honestly though, I feel that both situations are weirdly ineffectual. A good strike from a Sprenblade is likely unhealable, and reorientation for surprise attacks would be healed by the Radiant, and would be hard to pull off if both combatants were in the air. 

A Slowness Bubble would be one way of extending the duel to drain a Radiant’s Stormlight, but to be honest that’s not really in the spirit of the question. Plus a Radiant could always enter the bubble and bring the fight to the Mistborn, or stop draining their Stormlight. 

Verdict: No Inherit Advantage

I believe there is a scene that everyone overlooks when discussing speed bubbles.  When Marasi uses the cube in BoM the entire party gets slapped by this horrible disorientation and nausea spell.  The world going from normal to suddenly very not normal as you pass through that space is a far better advantage than I think is let on.  The way they described it in the book was like the characters were put through some vasovagal symptoms.  The whole world suddenly spinning as your mouth begins to water and you have to fight from throwing up. 

This is a large advantage if weaponized and since the very first time I read about this "side effect" of using the metal I have pictured pulsers standing at the front of armies and putting up this dome of death where their enemies would be running in formation only to hit a wall of horrible disorientation and nausea followed by their allies suddenly crashing into their backs only to experience the same exact thing.  Even in a 1 on 1 dual this can prove plenty useful.  A mistborn using their speed advantage in the air to quickly get above the windrunner and put up a bubble and then letting that windrunner blow through it in pursuit.  Being 100 yards above the ground traveling at 100+ miles per hour and then suddenly not knowing which way is up or down as your world spins around you and your get smacked by terrible nausea (cause all nausea is terrible) and  your body goes through a small systems shock... 

Time constriction and dilation is cool but in combat it is far less useful than blasting your opponent with that disorientation and illness.  This is valuable time to set up for mental attacks and close quarters attacks both.  

7 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Experience and Skill:

This isn't perhaps as relevant, but I feel it's important to consider the cultural and societal impacts behind a Mistborn and a Windrunner.

Within the days of the Final Empire, the average Mistborn would’ve been a noble and trained as an assassin. They were also a rarity, likely trained to fight guards and Mistings, rather than other Mistborn; people at their same power level. Therefore, I feel that the probability they sparred against someone of equal skill in a life or death situation would’ve been fairly uncommon. I also feel that their mindset would've likely been an entitled one (judging by a lot of the nobles we see), more used to overcoming their 'common' enemies with brute Allomantic power. 

Compare that to Windrunners. Either Pre-Recreance or during the True Desolation, they trained as scouts and soldiers; used to regular battle. Especially when we consider that True Desolation Windrunners are constantly fighting the Fused - beings at or surpassing their own level of skill and power. They also come from much wider backgrounds, which I feel would make them overall less likely to underestimate an opponent. In fact, considering their oaths, a lack of entitlement is baked into the protection of even those they hate.

Therefore, I feel that the Windrunner would have an advantage here too in a one-on-one dual. They'd be less likely to act rashly and more used to facing an immensely powerful opponent. Now, this isn't to say the Mistborn would be foolhardy or reckless, but their societal upbringing and their more stealth-aligned training wouldn't serve them as well in this situation. 

Verdict: Windrunner Advantage

I agree with a lot of this.  I have said that TLR biggest threat is his own hubris.  TLR vs Vasher should be so one sided but I wouldn't put it past TLR to let Vasher smack him with Nightblood just to prove that Vasher can't hurt him.  We all know how that would turn out.  

Mistborn are used to being the top dog on their planet.  Until the see what a sprenblade can do they may not treat it as the threat that it is.  Then again pewter doesn't fix getting stabbed by glass or steel either so they shouldn't be all that reckless.  Plus, as soon as they realize they can't push on that shiny sword I think their brains will be working and treating it differently than other fights.  

7 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Otherwise, they would likely try a Steel Push using the buttons on a Radiant's uniform, which the Radiant can counter with a Lashing of their own.  

The steel and iron usage always does something, and you don't have to have physical contact to do that thing either.  If the mistborn doesn't want the radiant to touch it then the radiant won't touch it short of stripping down to nothing.  Radiant is larger than the mistborn then the mistborn gets a free anchor.  If the radiant is smaller than the mistborn then the radiant is going to get tossed and pulled around like a ragdoll.  

Radiant wants to fly 200 mph towards me... then I can fly 200 mph away from him as he pushes me.  Once I make contact with something bigger than the 2 of us it doesn't matter how many lashings their are that radiant is going to go zipping off in the other direction.  Likewise if they want to flee I can iron pull behind them the same speed they are flying like holding onto the end of a rope.  

Then we remember that iron and steel last a lot longer than stormlight too.  

7 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Whilst Stormlight does grant a strength increase, I don't think it surpasses a tripled base value (though Huio did battle a building sized Hordeling - I'll say that's comparable to the Koloss).

I don't know that this is entirely accurate.  From my understanding stormlight doesn't increase strength so much as allow you to access your full potential of strength (healing muscle fibers as they tear and letting you push past those limits of where you would normally stop).  

Not saying that isn't an advantage but pewter is literal magic speed, strength, balance and toughness (denser tissues and bones as well). 

Stormlight heals and perfects what you naturally have to work with.  

7 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Atium: Now this is the Ace in the Hole for the Mistborn. Atium would allow a Mistborn to dodge Sprenblade attacks, allowing them to Leech the Radiant’s Stormlight more effectively. However, we should consider the sheer rarity of the metal. The nobles have access to some in Era 1, but a single Mistborn is unlikely to be carrying more than a bead, and it barely exists in Era 2.

The question is whether the Mistborn exhausts their Atium before the Windrunner exhausts their Stormlight. A skilled Mistborn, as mentioned, would certainly 'toggle' this ability for  when they're in close range, but if the fight continues their Atium could still expire. Still, it's a major advantage if the Mistborn has it. 

Verdict: Mistborn Advantage

Atium is the ace in the hole.  Only needs to be used when fighting close quarters against this foe with a metal blade that is immune to my steel and iron attacks.  Pewter makes you stronger and faster on the ground as well.  

 

My final thoughts are that mistborn does win the war of attrition as well as the down and dirty quick close quarters action as long as atium is on.  Stormlight doesn't heal insta kills either.  Sure Shallan gets to heal an arrow through the eyeslot but that is not saying that arrow was instant death (given the length of time we have kept GSW to the head alive).  Everyone short of gold compounders, edgedancer and truthwatchers are susceptible to a severed C1-5... magic sword or not.  

I love the breakdown and agree with a lot but I think a lot was overlooked on the mistborn side of things.  I still think mistborn fare much better vs 3rd ideal than what most do.  4th ideal is where the needle really starts to move.  

Edited by Tamriel Wolfsbaine
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24 minutes ago, Ookla the Wandering said:

Oh, 1000% a wasted use of what is probably the most powerful and versatile Investiture out there, but if they ever figure out how to manufacture Breaths from some other Investiture (and there are several theories on how to do it, mine involves feruchemical Gold Healing and mild psychological abuse) they'd be able to move huge amounts of investiture around the cosmere and use it for basically anything. 

I am very interested in reading more about this.  If you know where that post is please do share.  

Biochromatic breath is my absolute favorite.  It only gets better when I realize it can be obtained by anyone in the cosmere with any other magic system already as well.  The amount of home brewing mixes and matches of 5th heightening + X I have done in my brain is embarrassing.  But who doesn't want functional immortality, lifesense, perfect pitch and the color recognition... freaking cool stuff.  

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54 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Perhaps there is some source I am missing proving this but I believe that if a spren weapon is too invested to push or pull on it would be too invested to imbue with stormlight.  Still a spren shield is a great option for blocking projectiles but I don't believe it would be able to be sprayed with enough stormlight to act as an anchor for reverse lashing. 

I'm pretty sure that it is too invested, people are just overlooking that fact.

57 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The steel and iron usage always does something, and you don't have to have physical contact to do that thing either.  If the mistborn doesn't want the radiant to touch it then the radiant won't touch it short of stripping down to nothing.  Radiant is larger than the mistborn then the mistborn gets a free anchor.  If the radiant is smaller than the mistborn then the radiant is going to get tossed and pulled around like a ragdoll.  

Radiant wants to fly 200 mph towards me... then I can fly 200 mph away from him as he pushes me.  Once I make contact with something bigger than the 2 of us it doesn't matter how many lashings their are that radiant is going to go zipping off in the other direction.  Likewise if they want to flee I can iron pull behind them the same speed they are flying like holding onto the end of a rope.  

Then we remember that iron and steel last a lot longer than stormlight too.  

8 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

My friend and I were actually discussing what happens if you pull and use the uniform like a rope. What we decided is that either the buttons just snap off of the fabric or the KR just flies really high and pulls his own buttons off and the Mistborn has to drop coins to slow their fall which gives the KR the perfect time to attack or to feint and drain the Mistborn's Atium reserves, because, lets be honest, they're gonna use Atium because it's a very high risk position.

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Everyone short of gold compounders, edgedancer and truthwatchers are susceptible to a severed C1-5... magic sword or not.  

Well, we know some KR have survived a Shardblade slice to their neck or their back so I would say that they can probably recover from a severed C1-5 (whatever that is).

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This could honestly go either way. I can't make a decision until I know both characters, their backstories, their motives, their training, etc. There's too many variables here for this situation to make sense. If the windrunner is protecting someone, then all the mistborn has to do is kill the person. But the windrunner will also fight harder to protect someone. Then there's also the questions of their knowledge. How well do they understand each other's powers? If we're assuming the mistborn can use all 16 metals, what are we assuming about strength? Vin is stronger than Kelsier, but he's trained more. So does the mistborn rely more on brute force or on their own skill? We also need to know about their cleverness; how well do they adapt? 

For me, I think the most important question is why they're fighting. They won't fight hard just to test their skill. They need to be fighting for something. The same way motivational speakers always talk about attitude being important, their motives are the thing that will determine the outcome. Have they fought each other before, like Kaladin and the pursuer? Do they know why the other one is fighting, have they tried to negotiate, do they really care about the outcome. I would accept either answer so long as they have reasons to fight. People do unpredictable things when in the grip of their emotions. 

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