Mistborn V.S. 3rd ideal Windrunner

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I'd point out Vin almost killed herself doing that, not to mention that requires you to get in close.

Koloss also took forever to swing, and stared blankly if you did something unexpected.

Lash the Mistborn into the air and let the fall kill them.

I really need to reread the Vin headbutt.   I am sure she felt it and I am sure it didn't feel good but it's like popping an egg on your hand... the shell breaking doesn't feel good.   Once its all goo you are fine.  And pewter (especially with that duralumin enhanced push) increased her density such that her head did not turn to mush.  

That scene is not to argue if it is a good tactic.  It is pointing out just what is possible.  An elbow or a fist or a foot or a knee are all body weapons that work better than a headbutt.  They are supported by long bones and they are being driven by more musculature.   They have no soft bits that they are whipping around giving themselves slight concussions with.  

Add a weapon of any worth and you are playing a more dangerous game.  Stone loaded dueling cane... either the cane is popping or a head is.  Whichever one gives out first is the loser.  Stormlight isn't going to save you from a noggin blow that turns your brain and skull into a smoothie.   It isn't an active healing process.  

I really want to reread the koloss fight scenes again.  I don't disagree that radiants would be faster but the koloss exist for a reason.  TLR didn't make them to be so stupid and slow that a standing human army should fear a handful of them.  The Koloss were moved in and around to do that job exactly.  Crush rebellions.  

We quickly turn back to the zigzaging insta death dart of living spren that noone can avoid except we see mistborn on pewter dance around larger and faster enemies often. 

3 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

This only works if the Mistborn has absolutely no coins or other metal on their person

Couldn't have said it better myself.  If there is any metal the mistborn can land that easily enough.   

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

or if you use a reverse lashing pulling them towards you as they fall preventing them from getting a coin underneath them.

So we have a tug of war... something radiants deal with so often right?   Their weight vs their opponents?   Don't discount that mistborn have iron and steel.  You reverse lash my coin and I will pull it. Even if I am falling I can hold on with a pull.  Moash grabbed hold of a fused didn't he?  Except if you have sticky coins on the ground or on a shield a mistborn can grab hold from range.  Which is going to win the tug of war?   A coin being pulled by gravity or the string attached to it yanking it back magically?  

If a coin is within the mistborns vision they have a way to play that game.  There is no lashing the mistborn up and then flexing your way home because you picked up their anchors.  They move outside of that.  Gravity works the same way no matter what.  If a lurcher can hug a ceiling against gravities will they can certainly hug your reverse lashed coin.  

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I really want to reread the koloss fight scenes again.  I don't disagree that radiants would be faster but the koloss exist for a reason.  TLR didn't make them to be so stupid and slow that a standing human army should fear a handful of them.  The Koloss were moved in and around to do that job exactly.  Crush rebellions.  

The koloss win by intimidation more than skill. When Elend charges them at the start of HoA they sit there and let themselves be killed for several minutes before they start raging.

4 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

So we have a tug of war... something radiants deal with so often right?   Their weight vs their opponents?   Don't discount that mistborn have iron and steel.  You reverse lash my coin and I will pull it. Even if I am falling I can hold on with a pull.  Moash grabbed hold of a fused didn't he?  Except if you have sticky coins on the ground or on a shield a mistborn can grab hold from range.  Which is going to win the tug of war?   A coin being pulled by gravity or the string attached to it yanking it back magically?  

Why pull on the coin?

Pull on the Mistborn.

[therunner]

32 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Add a weapon of any worth and you are playing a more dangerous game.  Stone loaded dueling cane... either the cane is popping or a head is.  Whichever one gives out first is the loser.  Stormlight isn't going to save you from a noggin blow that turns your brain and skull into a smoothie.   It isn't an active healing process.  

Exactly, Stormlight healing is passive effect and does not require conscious thought to work (or brain then).
Stormlight healing is exactly as good as F-gold, and so as compounded gold (only difference between the two is amount of Investiture available) as stated before, WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6336) and WoB on Radiants healing nearly anything (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e4788) + WoB on extreme forms of healing not caring what is going on with the physical body (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3535).
Of course for Radiant the limitation is that there must be body to hold the Stormlight, but just removing head seems within scope of healing if enough Investiture is available to them.
But it would take time, which Mistborn could use for leeching them for example.

Also Progression surge is inferior to just Stormlight healing (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/451-tor-instagram-livestream/#e14448), at least when applied to other people. But since Regrowth can heal people dying (see Szeth), so can Stormlight healing of Radiant.

Edited December 12, 2022 by therunner

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The koloss win by intimidation more than skill. When Elend charges them at the start of HoA they sit there and let themselves be killed for several minutes before they start raging.

Why pull on the coin?

Pull on the Mistborn.

The point was if you lash the mistborn up he will fall safely with a coin.  If you reverse lash the coin away from him he will have more than enough power to either take it back or use it as an anchor.  

I think the windrunners best strat is to make a pool of adhesion under the mistborn and hope they step in it.  But if that was so efficient i question why we don't see it employed more often in books other than its too op to be fun to read.   The rule of cool says that it is only viable when it is good for the story. 

I feel like the pursuer strat would be great. With the exception that if you touch the mistborn they will leech you.  Also how does copper interact with outside investiture?  I saw a WoB that was wonderfully unspecific earlier today about copper.  Copperclouds mess with spren.  They would also protect a mistborn from being soulcast and potentially interfere with the soulcasters work in the immediate vicinity.  

How would a sprens communication with their radiant work in a coppercloud?  I found this compilation of WoBs here.  Copper as an anti rhythm 

 

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The point was if you lash the mistborn up he will fall safely with a coin.  If you reverse lash the coin away from him he will have more than enough power to either take it back or use it as an anchor

But what happens if you pull the Mistborn away from their anchor?

8 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think the windrunners best strat is to make a pool of adhesion under the mistborn and hope they step in it.  But if that was so efficient i question why we don't see it employed more often in books other than its too op to be fun to read.   The rule of cool says that it is only viable when it is good for the story

Mostly because it isn't useful in the sky.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

But what happens if you pull the Mistborn away from their anchor?

Mostly because it isn't useful in the sky.

I don't think a reverse lashing will help to pull a mistborn away from their anchor.  If it is truly leashed to a spot that they can pull themselves to it then that is viable and if it isn't anchored they can pull it to themselves and further use it as an anchor elsewhere.  

I do think the mistborn in the air loses a lot.  But it is highly unlikely they would be dying from fall damage so long as there are any blue lines anywhere.  

1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

The point was if you lash the mistborn up he will fall safely with a coin.  If you reverse lash the coin away from him he will have more than enough power to either take it back or use it as an anchor.  

I think the windrunners best strat is to make a pool of adhesion under the mistborn and hope they step in it.  But if that was so efficient i question why we don't see it employed more often in books other than its too op to be fun to read.   The rule of cool says that it is only viable when it is good for the story. 

I feel like the pursuer strat would be great. With the exception that if you touch the mistborn they will leech you.  Also how does copper interact with outside investiture?  I saw a WoB that was wonderfully unspecific earlier today about copper.  Copperclouds mess with spren.  They would also protect a mistborn from being soulcast and potentially interfere with the soulcasters work in the immediate vicinity.  

How would a sprens communication with their radiant work in a coppercloud?  I found this compilation of WoBs here.  Copper as an anti rhythm 

 

I appreciate these WoB.  I didn't realize that about regrowth.  That said in regards to decapitation it was specified to be extreme ends of cosmere healing.  I believe the only thing we have seen survive a straight up decapitation was TLR. Cold compounding is the extreme end of cosmere healing with the exception of Hoid perhaps.  

If compounding and stormlight and hoid are all exteme doesn't it defeat the purpose of saying extreme?  Whats left? A bit of pewter and a baseline F-gold?  (Genuinely I don't know of other healing).   Seems odd that more than half are considered to be on the extreme end.  

Whatever Hoid does is obviously extreme.  Gold compounding would be next.  Further down... and a good bit further down would be stormlight at higher oaths.  Then would be gold feruchemy on its own.  Pewter would be after that.  We don't see any healing at all on Nalthis (though I predict it exists somehow).  And I just haven't read anything else cosmere wise.  

But to put Shallan in the same boat as Miles I think is a pretty far stretch.  Miles laughed at people as they landed killing blows on him left and right.  Even with no metal on his person it took how many volleys from a firing squad to kill him?   

I think regrowing a brain will be a bit beyond what stormight can do in a timely enough manner for it to save you.  Unless that person walks away afterwords.  Between tin and bronze I doubt a mistborn would overlook that.  Smell / hear / sense the magic.... 

You can't breath in more stormight if you have no airway to do so with either.  

 

[Frustration]

8 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I don't think a reverse lashing will help to pull a mistborn away from their anchor.  If it is truly leashed to a spot that they can pull themselves to it then that is viable and if it isn't anchored they can pull it to themselves and further use it as an anchor elsewhere. 

Reverse lashings can affect bullets, and even pull someone's head off.

And why would the lashing need to be anchored?

[therunner]

34 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

If compounding and stormlight and hoid are all exteme doesn't it defeat the purpose of saying extreme?  Whats left? A bit of pewter and a baseline F-gold?  (Genuinely I don't know of other healing).   Seems odd that more than half are considered to be on the extreme end.  

Whatever Hoid does is obviously extreme.  Gold compounding would be next.  Further down... and a good bit further down would be stormlight at higher oaths.  Then would be gold feruchemy on its own.  Pewter would be after that.  We don't see any healing at all on Nalthis (though I predict it exists somehow).  And I just haven't read anything else cosmere wise. 

Well Stormlight is mostly limited by how much Stormlight is available. It is possible that for the extreme feats (i.e. regrow entire body from only a piece of brain) you would require ridiculous amount of Stormlight, which would somehow have to be infusing the tissue further complicating the matters. But Kaladin was taking in Stormlight even when unconscious and breathing in is not strictly necessary, so if the spiritweb and cognitive aspects were still available, and the process got kickstarted it could work.

That is the advantage of gold compounding over Stormlight, it pulls Investiture directly from Spiritual realm, or you can tap metalminds at large factors (though burning would be more efficient).

So while Stormlight healing could get there, typically there is not enough of it for the most extreme feats. But regrowing head is relatively 'minor', it does regularly heal wounds to spiritweb, which are difficult to heal otherwise.

Healing on Nalthis is arguably the most powerful but the most limited, using Divine Breath allows to heal anything (withing general Cosmere rules) and instantly (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31/#e9623). Of course the cost is high.

I'd put it as
Hoid >= Divine Breath > Gold-compounding >= Radiant Stormlight healing (equality conditional on amount of Stormlight) > Regrowth > Honorblade healing >= Gold healing (usual stores available) >>>>>> Pewter
Edit: Of course the problem is that compounded gold is 'just' F-gold with large stores, so basically F-gold and Stormlight can move around on the scale, depending on the amount of stores. If you gave Wayne all the Miles' metalminds (and they were somehow Unkeyed) he would suddenly be on level of compounder.

34 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

But to put Shallan in the same boat as Miles I think is a pretty far stretch.  Miles laughed at people as they landed killing blows on him left and right.  Even with no metal on his person it took how many volleys from a firing squad to kill him?  

That was because he most likely had some metalminds implanted, which they obviously would not be able to remove + savantism.
I would say Shallan (or any Radiant really) could do exactly the same, if they had enough Stormlight available.

34 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

You can't breath in more stormight if you have no airway to do so with either. 

I think if the person already had Stormlight in them, the healing would start and then the process would continue to absorb ambient Stormlight (if there was any).
I think the key there is Intent to absorb stormlight, and since it is gas the most natural way to absorb it by breathing, but I don't think it would be strictly necessary.

34 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think regrowing a brain will be a bit beyond what stormight can do in a timely enough manner for it to save you.  Unless that person walks away afterwords.  Between tin and bronze I doubt a mistborn would overlook that.  Smell / hear / sense the magic....

While I think regrowing the brain is something Stormlight could do, I do agree that healing smashed head would take too long and give Mistborn free pass to leech them. I mean, if it the head healed in 5 seconds, that is still 5 seconds when Mistborn can do whatever they want, and in combat that is eternity.

Edited December 12, 2022 by therunner

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

27 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Reverse lashings can affect bullets, and even pull someone's head off.

And why would the lashing need to be anchored?

My comment was a bit rushed.  I meant they would be able to push off of an anchor or pull to an anchor depending on what was stuck where.  

Reverse lashings wouldnt have torn off a head unless the body was immobilized.  To immobilize the mistborn would be difficult, and to lash it upwards at all would require touch which allows for leeching and the one shot potential.  

I dont have a ton of examples for reverse lashings other than the most obvious which was the volley of arrows and the shield at the end of WoK.  I have a feeling that size matters in that as well.  I dont think reverse lashing would really change the way the mistborn is going to move and if a coin gets pulled to the object in question first the mistborn can push and pull of it depending on its size.   

lashing are just dropping a ball.  Steel and iron are yanking and throwing that ball.  You can stack gravity as much as you want to but they are still just a push away from staying up.  How many lashing do you suppose it would take to have the force of gravity on that mistborn be more than what their steel and iron can repel or attract against?  

28 minutes ago, therunner said:

Edit: Of course the problem is that compounded gold is 'just' F-gold with large stores, so basically F-gold and Stormlight can move around on the scale, depending on the amount of stores. If you gave Wayne all the Miles' metalminds (and they were somehow Unkeyed) he would suddenly be on level of compounder.

28 minutes ago, therunner said:

While I think regrowing the brain is something Stormlight could do, I do agree that healing smashed head would take too long and give Mistborn free pass to leech them. I mean, if it the head healed in 5 seconds, that is still 5 seconds when Mistborn can do whatever they want, and in combat that is eternity.

That is the difference though.  Wayne with all of Miles metalminds could likely heal being blown to bits.  But I think Wayne would have to be consciously tapping that health and there comes a point where you cant do that fast enough... Plus you hit big time diminishing returns when pulling that much of any attribute at the same time.  

Meanwhile Miles was likely so adept at burning his metalminds that he wasnt tapping them anymore anyway.  Piercings and swallowed metalminds were constantly on a slow burn.  Slowly burning a metalmind is still pulling 10x the amount of attribute out of it.  Miles was constantly getting fed enough gold compounding to beable to 100% instictively burn even when the off button was pushed.  Miles healed things as they were happening (bones being knitted up as they started to fracture or his head being healed as the bullet passed through it.)  Stormlight works quick but it isnt in that same ballpark. 

In the end I havent really replayed enough of stormlights healing to have a feel for how fast it burns through stormlight.  My point with the head popped like a zit was really this.  As a blade slices through you it cuts along its edge.  The damage that must be healed is the soft tissue damage at the laceration sights.  An arrow is the same exact thing.  Healing a cut as it happens.  Guns and blunt force work totally differently.  A bullet passing through tissue causes that tissue to expand and recontract.  The pressure changes cause wide spread damage not just a local cut directly around the spot.  

When you shoot a deer with a bow you want a clean pass through.  Get those beautiful arcs of easily tracked arterial and hopefully foamy blood from the lungs and heart.  When you open that deer up it is just a cut through the whole thing.  Nice and clean (unless you are using specific mechanical broadheads).  When you shoot a deer with a gun the entire wound channel and method of dealing damage to the inside of this animal is different.  If you bash a deer with a stick it is likewise different.  

Stormlight can knit cuts quickly.  I just dont know how quickly stormlight can knit all of the other things being broken at the same time.  Liquid brain, skull in tiny pieces.  Arteries, not just severed, but shredded.  Your airway is full of pieces of... well your face not to mention your CNS probably isnt telling your body to breath anymore because your CNS is kind of gone.  

Stormlight doesnt just have to heal a cut with severe blunt trauma or a bullet wound.  It has to heal all of the things.  Regrow bones and clean out the airways, as well as growing a new brain to tell your body what to do.  While you might be able to heal through it passively it would take way to long and unless you are blessed enough to get a killing blow while flailing around in the death throws you probably arent playing anymore.  

This is of course, if the cosmere healing has anything to do with how much actual damage was sustained.  

Hence why I said I think daggers are silly.  A good old fashioned lead loaded or stone topped shillelagh would serve the mistborn far better.  Daggers work so well for the stabby stab assassination and to add a covert feel to the mistborn series but Waynes canes are so much better suited for dealing damage and passing around death.  A club to the head is no joke.  When being swung by someone two or three times as strong as the worlds greatest sluggers it is devestating.  

Thank you for reminding me about Nalthis healing.  I wouldn't have thought of it because it is the ultimate support ability in which you die yourself to give someone a life and that life can instantly be taken away from them again the second after they get healed.  

 

[Frustration]

I kind of want to do one of these threads for all of the orders.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I kind of want to do one of these threads for all of the orders.

My worry is that we just dont have quite enough concrete info on a lot of the other surges.  

I think division could well be be a deathsentence for everyone at range.  

I think abrasion would be the easiest one to work around but if it means slipping cuts and punches that land square just to slip off causing no damage that would be difficult.  

I think we have established that progression is more support for others and not a supercharged self heal beyond what stormlight is so that wouldn't make a difference.  

Illumination in truthwatchers won't be too much of an issue other than potentially screwing with atium shadows.  In lightweavers with substance behind illusions it could be a lot more difficult. Fighting against shadowclone jutsu.  

I think copperclouds would be a large protector against being soulcast but then chimes in "make a block of aluminum around their head" which is what is used in TLR vs radiant arguments.  

Transportation probably wouldn't be too difficult to counter other than blade appears right above you turning the willshaper into a 1 shot assassin from halfway across the map.  

Cohesion and tension we just dont have a ton of answers on.  Vs stonesinew how would a pewter enhanced punch fare?   Its plate without being plate and we still don't have magic swords on the mistborn.... but leeching becomes a lot more feasible with less mobility than other orders.  Letting the ground swallow up anchors or the mistborns feet works too. 

Adhesion... well bondsmith is about as close to leeching as you get with a radiant and it would still be a leeching vs perpendicularity issue.  Best bet is to pop head and then continue bashing until there is a pile of person pulp on the ground but according to some trains of thought that radiant could still passively grow back in the background over the next days or weeks.  

I honestly think if I was a mistborn I would pray to fight in order...

Truthwatcher

Edgedancer 

Lightweaver

Willshaper

Stoneward

Elsecaller

Windrunner

Dustbringer

Skybreaker

Bondsmith

 

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

My worry is that we just dont have quite enough concrete info on a lot of the other surges.

I think Dustringers are the only ones we don't know enough to say.

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I think we have established that progression is more support for others and not a supercharged self heal beyond what stormlight is so that wouldn't make a difference.  

I have several ways it could be deadly, or useful for other things.

6 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Illumination in truthwatchers won't be too much of an issue other than potentially screwing with atium shadows.  In lightweavers with substance behind illusions it could be a lot more difficult. Fighting against shadowclone jutsu.

I'm going to disagree there.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I think Dustringers are the only ones we don't know enough to say.

I have several ways it could be deadly, or useful for other things.

I'm going to disagree there.

I think of most orders it is a matter of the mistborn avoiding AoE snares.  I think that is everyones best win con.  Snare the mistborn and then kill the mistborn.  Mistborn has no CC at all outside of emotional allomancy (which I still think is viable in combat).  Radiants have adhesion, progression (basically vinewraps), cohesion and illusion magic.  I think that illusions will be the easiest one for the mistborn to deal with as they have magical sensory overload.  They smell better, they see better, they hear rhythms and magic usage as well as steel sight or spiritual sight if they are burning gold.  Copper has so many unknown effects it isnt funny.  We have WoB saying spren act weird in a coppercloud.  Who is to say the sprenblade mechanics are going to stay the same inside of a coppercloud anyways.  It likely interferes with illusions and soulcasting as well.  

Progression seed bombs are a legit option but pewter might be better at breaking those wraps and speed of progression may chew through stormlight way quick.  

I think cohesion making quicksand the arena would do the best at stopping the mistborn from flight.  And for all of the other Radiants it is flight vs no flight.  Depending on what we see division do later it could change but lazers and cannons are beyond the era for the fight.  

You could build walls out of earth and organic plant life to help vs mistborn range and force them to fight down low.

I think your illusions have to have substance to be of use and I believe that is a benefit of being a lightweaver more than just illusion magic in general.  

[Wits instant noodles]

21 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I kind of want to do one of these threads for all of the orders.

that would be a great idea

[Monk of Dakhor]

A question that I have though (still involving this thread), is that if the Radiants brain is made into, for lack of a better word, a smoothie, and stormlight then regrows the brain, would there memories still be the same, or would they be altered, or potentially, have no memory at all?

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Wits instant noodles said:

that would be a great idea

with your permission then

 

[Wits instant noodles]

there is also Mistborn V.S. 3rd Ideal Lightweaver  no clue how you made it appear like that so this is just a link.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Wits instant noodles said:

there is also Mistborn V.S. 3rd Ideal Lightweaver  no clue how you made it appear like that so this is just a link.

I just posted the link as text rather than linking it to words.

I also noticed you skipped like three orders but alright

[Wits instant noodles]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I also noticed you skipped like three orders but alright

I personally understand and like Lightweavers best

[Werewolff Studios]

5 hours ago, Ookla the Monk said:

A question that I have though (still involving this thread), is that if the Radiants brain is made into, for lack of a better word, a smoothie, and stormlight then regrows the brain, would there memories still be the same, or would they be altered, or potentially, have no memory at all?

Their memories are tied to their Cognitive and Spiritual selves and perception, so nothing would be lost. Relevant WOB below:

Quote

Questioner

In your books, you have some pretty powerful healing magics, and we've also seen some characters sustain some pretty traumatic brain injuries. The human brain stores information as electrical connections, right? So if you blew a part of it out, you could grow it all back, but those connections wouldn't really be there. Have you considered that?

Brandon Sanderson

I have. This is why you will see memory... So, Cognitive Shadows maintain a person's memory. And your Cognitive aspect, your Invested self, maintains your memory in the cosmere. This is why you will also see people's memory being edited by accessing some of the Investiture. You'll see this in Warbreaker; you saw this in the end of Rhythm of War. Your Cognitive self, your Invested self, keeps a duplicate of all your memories. So this allows very significant trauma to the Physical sense; as long as the Cognitive sense is still attached to that body, those memories will be reimplanted in the Physical self, or will be accessed. And this was just necessary for me to even have things like what happened with Raoden in the beginning of Elantris, and for ghosts to exist, and things like that. It actually works pretty well, because it lets me use it to edit people's memories by accessing their Investiture.

And one of the other things that's going on here is: if you have more Investiture, you can remember more, and better. But then that's dangerous, because it's a lot easier to access that Investiture. And it's a lot harder to notice when it has been edited. Hmm.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 23, 2021)

 

[Wits instant noodles]

On 12/1/2022 at 1:35 PM, Frustration said:

Lurchers used wooden shields to block coins.

just rereading through this thread and thought I would point out that that hasn't rely ever stopped a Mistborn from killing them.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Wits instant noodles said:

just rereading through this thread and thought I would point out that that hasn't rely ever stopped a Mistborn from killing them.

But shardplate is stronger than stone, so it would block coins without cracking.

[Wits instant noodles]

This is 3rd Ideal not fourth so no shard plate

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Wits instant noodles said:

This is 3rd Ideal not fourth so no shard plate

ah, true. I'm apparently still stuck in Roshar vs. Scadrial mode.

Regardless, shields can block coins, and reverse lashings can pull them out of the air.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Frustration

[cometaryorbit]

At 3rd ideal I think it comes down to the reason they're fighting and the environment. If the environment is metal poor Windrunner has better mobility. Whoever has something to protect has a big disadvantage, too.

If the Mistborn can keep their distance the Windrunner doesn't have a ranged ability to match coins and if the Windrunner is wearing any non-Shardblade metal that will make it easy for the Mistborn to keep distance. But the Windrunner's Stormlight healing can absorb a lot of coin hits, whereas one good Shardblade hit will kill the Mistborn.

If both can move freely it will be a long fight, with the Mistborn shooting coins and constantly evading and the Windrunner chasing and healing. It will likely come down to whether the Mistborn runs out of iron/steel or the Radiant runs out of Stormlight first- though the Mistborn has no room for error, and the Radiant does.

If the Mistborn is pinned down protecting someone/something they probably die pretty quickly.

So I'd say slight edge to the Radiant because of healing, but could completely go either way, and likely a long and very frustrating fight - especially if the Radiant has any metal on them.

I'm not sure how many coins a 3rd ideal Radiant should be able to absorb. The crossbow bolt in OB is a fairly big deal for Shallan, whereas Kaladin heals knife wounds to the spine pretty quick in RoW, and they're both 3rd ideal at the time.

Edited January 19, 2023 by cometaryorbit