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Allomantic Space Travel


darniil

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As to "Gaspers," so many very bad things happen when you expose organic tissue to vacuum that having an air supply isn't going to help much.

I didn't say they'd be going to space naked. (involuntary shudder) They'd be suited up, but having extra breath stored in a small metal bracer is still a big benefit to space-walking.

Also, thanks for the correction. Marasi said it, not Wayne.

Could she be wrong though?

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I didn't say they'd be going to space naked. (involuntary shudder) They'd be suited up, but having extra breath stored in a small metal bracer is still a big benefit to space-walking.

Also, thanks for the correction. Marasi said it, not Wayne.

Could she be wrong though?

Ah, yes. Non-naked space-walking without the need to maintain an air supply would be convenient.

No, she couldn't sorry. Just before that quote we have Marasi: "It's been documented." They did a live test of it, and didn't notice any space-time ruptures going on.

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Ah, yes. Non-naked space-walking without the need to maintain an air supply would be convenient.

No, she couldn't sorry. Just before that quote we have Marasi: "It's been documented." They did a live test of it, and didn't notice any space-time ruptures going on.

Well, certainly not, as long as the power is the same through the circle. I wonder though, how close is nearby , what happens if the circles overlap only a little, etc...

To get the drive effect, they first have to create a nonlinear Allomantic field ( rather than linear in a spherical volume, as now) , so as they use it now, probably nothing will happen.

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Ah, yes. Non-naked space-walking without the need to maintain an air supply would be convenient.

No, she couldn't sorry. Just before that quote we have Marasi: "It's been documented." They did a live test of it, and didn't notice any space-time ruptures going on.

To be fair, they did just invent automobiles. Do you think they would notice a space-time rupture? unlikely

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i know she said they cancel each other out, reckon that is completely like if they touch at all both just do nothing despite the fact only a small area is touching, or would you have a portion of normal time next to some ppl going super fast next to some ppl slowed completely down. the slow bubbles are apparently much larger too, so its possible that one could have a benalloy bubble in the middle of a cadmium one so its an area of normal time right inside a large area where every1 is slowed.

i could understand that if a bendalloy bubble was up and an allomancer created a cadmium one it would cancel it out. err thinking about this has made me wonder if time speeds up always at the same rate for everyone who can use bendalloy and personal power only effects size, or do some ppl speed things up slightly faster then others? and does it speed up a set amount from "normal" time flow or from time relative to the person making the bubble, because what happens if you get a bendalloy bubble inside a bendalloy bubble of slightly large size, does it go rly quick? or would any bubbles touching each other just merge into one.

anyway if somebody created a cadmium bubble and then used bendalloy in it, there should still be a large area that is slow, so the ppl in the bendalloy bubble should be moving at normal speed whilst every1 around is rly slow, but then could another bendalloy bubble be created inside that cancelled out area to make it speed up?

or you reckon its just if any part of a bendalloy and cadmium bubble touch both just have no effect at all and metal is wasted till one or both are turned off? would be simpler i guess

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i could understand that if a bendalloy bubble was up and an allomancer created a cadmium one it would cancel it out. err thinking about this has made me wonder if time speeds up always at the same rate for everyone who can use bendalloy and personal power only effects size, or do some ppl speed things up slightly faster then others? and does it speed up a set amount from "normal" time flow or from time relative to the person making the bubble, because what happens if you get a bendalloy bubble inside a bendalloy bubble of slightly large size, does it go rly quick? or would any bubbles touching each other just merge into one.

As for the relative speed:

Wayne flares his metals to make time go slower during the meeting with Lord Harms. So Allomantic strength would determine just how slow time when when in a bubble.

As for the bubble in a bubble Brandon answered that at the release signing - They stack.

Edit to add thought:

To be fair, they did just invent automobiles. Do you think they would notice a space-time rupture? unlikely

The auto-mobile was first mass produced in 1902. Albert Einstein's theory of special relativity came in 1905. It is fully possible they would have noticed it.

I think we are missing something here.

Back at the beginning of this discussion Peter said

There's an issue with conservation of momentum with speed bubbles.

I think this is important for two reasons.

1. I have learned to never ignore something Peter says - even if it is misdirection it can be informative.

2. There is a rather large issue with conservation of momentum with the speed bubbles.

Momentum is defined by p=m*v where p is momentum, m is mass, and v is velocity. In classic physics and in special relativity is is always conserved. This means that barring outside forces an objects momentum will not change. So when an object passes through the time barrier some outside force is acting on it to change its momentum. But how can that be used for FTL?

Edited by discipleofhoid
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The auto-mobile was first mass produced in 1902. Albert Einstein's theory of special relativity came in 1905. It is fully possible they would have noticed it.

I think we are missing something here.

I'd just like to note that even though Special Relativity was around about the same time as the automobile, actually sensing things like warps in space-time was well beyond the experimental science of the day. Still is, really.

I agree, though, that we are missing something. That's not uncommon when you start sneaking up on one of Brandon's ideas when you don't have enough info.

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I think we are missing something here.

Back at the beginning of this discussion Peter said

I think this is important for two reasons.

1. I have learned to never ignore something Peter says - even if it is misdirection it can be informative.

2. There is a rather large issue with conservation of momentum with the speed bubbles.

Momentum is defined by p=m*v where p is momentum, m is mass, and v is velocity. In classic physics and in special relativity is is always conserved. This means that barring outside forces an objects momentum will not change. So when an object passes through the time barrier some outside force is acting on it to change its momentum. But how can that be used for FTL?

Except that isn't quite right. Momentum is m*d/t, where d is distance and t is time. The bubbles screw with the "t" term in that equation. How exactly that screwery manifests can have all kinds of applications.

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Except that isn't quite right. Momentum is m*d/t, where d is distance and t is time. The bubbles screw with the "t" term in that equation. How exactly that screwery manifests can have all kinds of applications.

m*d/t does not take into account the directional nature of momentum. Velocity is a vector unit of distance/time. That means it includes the direction. The difference is important. The momentum of the object is changed at the time bubble boundary in at least 2 ways - The objects direction of travel changes and there appears to be a change in the speed(d/t) portion as well.

I'd just like to note that even though Special Relativity was around about the same time as the automobile, actually sensing things like warps in space-time was well beyond the experimental science of the day. Still is, really.

You are right about sensing the warps however they would have one advantage in developments in this field over us - namely a know method of compressing and expanding time. Knowing where to look for the warps and having a known field to examine would make space-time warps alot easier to research.

Edit to add new info:

It involves where the lost energy from thermodynamic issues goes in certain Allomantic interactions.#torchat

So basically the energy from the momentum changes of objects leaving time bubbles can be harnessed for FTL - lets find out how.

Edited by discipleofhoid
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Actually, yeah, I mistyped, velocity is direction/time not just distance. I was actually thinking about how if momentum is actually conserved it might be the time element being shunted into direction that is causing the deflections. If conservation of momentum is maintained.

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the bullet wax shot slowed down somewhat at least, else how could he have fired the second one if it was still travelling at bullet speed to him

Good Catch!

and the bullet shot within a time bubble that was dropped before it hit the edge did not slow down - by the same reasoning.

So what is happening to that energy and how can this be used for FTL

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not necessarily, he steelpushed the second bullet to make it go faster

but i agree personally it probably did keep the speed :P

by the way if it does, for the point and shoot method you could probably stack flared bubbles and steelpush something small out of it lol, with rly gd timing

Edited by Wispsy
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I can't remember if it was said anywhere in the book, but what happens when a person moves out of the bubbles? Or any object really. I don't ever specifically remembering that the object changes. Which would imply that the object's mass doesn't change.

When the bullet Wax shot left the bubble, it's velocity slowed down (from the fast time bubble), which follows relativity correctly. Now, if my assumption above is true, and the bullet in fact doesn't change in mass (it should gain mass, and it losses mass if moving from a slow bubble), we have a conservation of momentum problem. Since m1*v1 =! m2*v2.

I'm not saying this is what actually happened in the book since I don't remember, but it's a quick guess at part of the problem.

And edit to say that I'm thinking about the rest of the problem. damnation you guys for nerd sniping me!

Edited by eltari
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On twitter, someone asked Brandon this:

You mentioned friday night in #Seattle Allomacy has "FTL" built into it, any more hints you can share on how that would work

To which Brandon replied this:

It involves where the lost energy from thermodynamic issues goes in certain Allomantic interactions.

Interesting. I'm not science savvy enough to figure out where he's going with that, but it does seem to indicate he's going in an entirely different direction from using bendalloy/cadmium bubbles to warp space-time or achieve relativistic effects.

Anyone think they can piggyback onto his train of thought there?

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I can't remember if it was said anywhere in the book, but what happens when a person moves out of the bubbles? Or any object really. I don't ever specifically remembering that the object changes. Which would imply that the object's mass doesn't change.

We never saw anyone actually leave a time bubble, but we know that Miles tried to escape Marasi's Cadmium bubble when he realized what was happening (pg 304). For all we know there are still massive side-effects that Miles was simply confident of healing from, but we can at least presume that he knew that he wasn't going to be shoved into a time-wedgie or something.

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We never saw anyone actually leave a time bubble, but we know that Miles tried to escape Marasi's Cadmium bubble when he realized what was happening (pg 304). For all we know there are still massive side-effects that Miles was simply confident of healing from, but we can at least presume that he knew that he wasn't going to be shoved into a time-wedgie or something.

actually that's not true, Wax drops himself and Marasi out of one of Wayne's bubbles at one point and nothing bad happens to them.

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actually that's not true, Wax drops himself and Marasi out of one of Wayne's bubbles at one point and nothing bad happens to them.

Unfortunately, there isn't enough information to verify my thoughts. I'll have to think about this more at work tomorrow. I really want to figure this out lol.

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Ah, I had forgotten about that. Thanks for pointing it our, CrazyRioter. For someone on a fan site dedicated almost exclusively to extrapolating large theories from the minutia of textual evidence, I need to work on my memory. :\

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