Szeth's NaNoWriMo adventure

[Szeth_Pancakes]

A rehash of a novel I tried to write earlier this year. Constructive criticism cherished and coveted.

Full doc

Individual chapter docs to come

[GroundPetrel]

I will see about taking a look and tell you what I think, Odium knows I'm hunting frantically for ways to procrastinate from my thesis. 

[Szeth_Pancakes]

Just now, GroundPetrel said:

I will see about taking a look and tell you what I think, Odium knows I'm hunting frantically for ways to procrastinate from my thesis. 

Thanks!

[GroundPetrel]

I see this is setting up to be assassin fantasy.  Very Gentleman Bastards feel.  We have a protagonist who is shown to be a smart and forward thinking type, and proudly non-magical.  This is a promising start. 

A few quibbles with the fight scene: Having two ropes, one a "common hemp rope of the type you'd find rigging a sail on a boat", in a belt pocket, seems odd.  I would use "twine" or something here and have it be a roll or loop or something somehow clipped to the belt.  The action is a little hard to follow.  Protagonist seems to be doing a number of things in unnaturally quick succession (going legs first through the window then tackling the guy after kicking him back) without the target doing or reacting much (in that time all the target does is say "oof!", there's no sense of collapsing backwards or struggling to get up or the like), and the tension built up is kinda wasted here. 

"Ginormous" is a very modern feeling word choice.  "Immense" or "opulent" might fit with the previously established late 19th/early 20th century feel better. 

A sprained ankle is very hard to walk or run or jump or climb on.  The way this complication is introduced feels off, I would expect the protagonist to at least make some noise of pain, but I see that soon after they start to experience significant effects of a sprain, which is good. 

Getting home works.  No pedantic complaints here.  Good building sense of exhaustion and pain, more showing the protagonist thinking things through and using deception almost reflexively. 

I think more detail on the next morning would be useful.  The protagonist just completed a major job, they now have some downtime, let them savor it and let the narration do the same.  When I come out of that last passage of mounting exhaustion and pain, I want to see the next morning's slow throbbing pain as they wake up, hauling themself out of bed, checking defenses, getting mad at themself when they realize they made a mistake, detail on the self care, the soreness of muscles, pain of the sprained ankle, details like bath water splashing and sounds near the apartment and smells and colors to kinda paint the world more.  You've given a pretty strong first impression of a kinda magic-Downton-Abbey-but-assassins world, now is the time to savor it.  

Ditto with the mysterious figure of mysteriousness's intro.  There are solid, evocative elements, but very little is done or discussed, and this needs both more buildup and more payoff for what is implied to be a pretty plot-significant element we'll discover more of as we go. 

 

Going out to do some DMV stuff.  Hope I'm not too negative.  More thoughts later! 

[GroundPetrel]

my #1 biggest actual problem, rather than just pedantic quibbling, is that by the end of chapter 1 I feel completely starved for detail, a sense of depth.  Do not be afraid to marinate in the world, and to write with the intent of the reader doing the same.  You're doing assassin fantasy, the reader will read those first couple of pages, which do give a good sense of depth compared to the end of the first chapter, and the reader will accept and anticipate marinating in the world. 

Think like...Dishonored.  Dishonored is literally built, from a gameplay POV, to encourage the player to spend long periods of time carefully and quietly sneaking around and hearing sounds, sights, and giving an idea of what smells to think of.  Then it's punctuated with brief periods of frenetic action, but the game deliberately incentivizes taking it slow and careful and really feeling the world. 

[Szeth_Pancakes]

Thanks for the feedback! This is super helpful.

[GroundPetrel]

Starting chapter 2.  Good punchy first line. 

Brigar's new to high command but is good at small-unit tactics, and was rapidly promoted over a much more experienced officer, is what I'm gathering here.  No resentment there? 

The bit about the religion I would explain in lusher terms.  "The <priest types> said that to die in battle, face to face with the enemy, was the highest honor.  <protagonist> had always been tolerably faithful, if not devout, but here, faced with the stink of burgeoning infection, the iron tang of blood, and the moans of the injured, he felt his faith shaken" or something of the sort.  This is more towards personal preference than my previous critique though. 

This deserves more explanation the more I read.  This guy seems to be rebelling--why is he rebelling?  I want details--motivations, causes, ideology, politics.  These are big needs in assassin and war fantasy.  Even in Stormlight where much of the backstory is deliberately concealed early on, there is a clear backstory for the war and even the elements that are initially mysterious to Kaladin are implied and then explained in the text as we get into Adolin's and Dalinar's frustrations with Alethi societal corruption.  Assassin fantasy typically takes place in worlds of intrigue and political oppression and corruption, the protagonists fit the mood.  War fantasy needs causes, motivations for peoples to war--which requires politics.  Even a work like LOTR that is generally seen as "simplistic good vs. evil" actually has a lush political backstory that makes the world and the characters much deeper (i.e. Boromir is explicitly created to be one of the most noble paladiny types possible, and the way the Ring tempts him is by appealing to his desire to save a people--his people--that he knows viscerally are dying out, which is a much cooler story than the popular consciousness version that he "goes evil" because of greed for the ring).  My advice--you should build Brigar's emotions through the scene--his desperation, depression, maybe even fatalism at the situation.  His desire to help his men, his fear of failing them.  His desperate craving for comfort warring with the need to put on a face of strength. 

So I'm back to "make this more lush, marinate me the reader in the world and spend more time in it".  Ditto with the character.  To reference Stormlight again--I don't love Adolin Kholin because of the badass things he does.  I cheer Adolin during those badass moments because I've grown to love him through seeing and feeling the man he is while empathizing with his worries about his dad's mental state, his devotion to his brother and to Maya, his stumbling into a surprisingly rewarding relationship with Shallan, his honor and conviction that lead him to kill Sadeas, his relationship with Kaladin with its initial clashing and suspicion and eventual laying-bare of who Adolin is at his core that resolves the conflict, the rage at his father for abandoning Adolin to raise Renarin while Dalinar got drunk, the boiling-over of that rage and the simmering resentment over Dalinar's repressive attitude towards Adolin and his passions and personality, the genuine love for Maya when he realizes who and what she is, the way this doubles down on his devotion until he would gladly lay down his life for her and stands up to a rigged court to defend her voice. 

I want to see that kind of stuff.  I want to know what makes this guy tick.  Think...think the conversations with Mordin Solus in Mass Effect 2, where the voice actor makes it very clear that he's a monster who desperately wants to convince himself he isn't one, even though he knows he is.  The convos with Wrex in ME1 where you see his depression and fatalism, and then again in the second game where you see how he has evolved and taken lessons from Shepard and regained hope for the future, and yeah, even 3, rushed as it is, where he is a leader and you can see how Shepard's relationship with him has affected him, and you can feel the rage in his voice when the dalatrass is blatantly racist to his face. 

Likewise, I want a reaction to the reveal.  Our second protagonist just got told and shown he's some kind of living superweapon mage.  This means hope, fear, wonder, anxiety.  All sorts of things.  I want at least some of his reactions, his emotions, his feelings.  War fantasy runs on emotion, and I need more of it in this chapter. 

 

This might be too brutally honest, and I know this is just a draft, but the lack of detail is kicking me out of the flow and the feel too much.  You set a scene with something evocative, a visual or a line that just hooks you, you have a pretty strong writing voice, but then I'm grubbing in the dark looking for details to continue that evocative feel and paint the sounds and scents and sights of the world, and they're not there in the text. 

I think that at least what I've read needs a second draft aiming not so much at slowing the pace as painting the world.  What I've read so far feels like a sketch with some very beautiful details.  There is a perfectly drawn eye in the middle of a roughly sketched face with guide lines still in place.  You can draw the eye very well, so I know that when you finish the sketch it's gonna be damn good, but what I've read so far is light in details on key places that make it hard to get into the mood.  I would definitely buy this in a bookstore for 25 bucks (hardback)/18 bucks (paperback), once you've got that world-painting built in.  As it is, the lack of detail to marinate in makes it feel rushed and oddly disconnected, and I'm not feeling as much emotion in this second chapter as I want. 

 

You can be lush and evocative and do it damn well, it's just that this draft has a weird aversion to sticking to that which is making it hard to get into. 

 

I hope this is helpful and not hurtful. 

[GroundPetrel]

short and less tangent-y and pedantic version: You have the chops, I just think this should be 100,000 words instead of 50,000.  This is assassin/war fantasy with duels and political scheming, it truly needs the world to be painted and the emotions to be lush and intense.  Mistborn, Stormlight, Gentlemen Bastards, they run on a lush world and intense emotions. 

here's something I wrote for a superhero thing, this is kinda what I'm talking about:

Spoiler

I tag along after Agent Ward, Agent Williams, and Agent Ward’s impossibly beautiful friend in a daze. The emotions of the potential to go home, mixed with the unthinkable feeling pulsing in my gut, leave my senses seizing on random sounds and smells, I’m unable to focus on anything in particular.

“Are you alright to stay out here?” Agent Ward asks me, penetrating the haze. I blink at her, and nod after a moment.

“I think so.”

“Alright, we’ll be just a minute. Stick by the cops, OK?”

I nod, and she gives me a little smile. “Won’t be long now,” she promises. “We’ll have answers for you soon. And options.”

“Let’s go,” Agent Trinh says, and I want her to wrap me in one strong arm and swing us out a window to be carried off to some exotic beach in a helicopter. It’s an oddly specific fantasy.

The door to one of the studios opens, and I hear a brief spark of noise that has me zeroing in on the noise.

“…and I know what you may be thinking—‘Jeff, there’s no way you went to the extent of making an anatomically accurate cake sculpture of Ramzarmat Kadyrazov having sexual relations with a horse’. But if you’re thinking that, then you have clearly underestimated just how far we are willing to go to mock this deeply weird despot. So…” The studio audience explodes with laughter, and I wince, pulling my arms up to clutch my head, trying to focus on anything else.

The busy street outside, somebody screaming insults at someone in front of them in traffic, a baby crying, two kids chatting about a video game, a woman sobbing about her boss as another tells her to get control of herself and there’s nothing they can do…

My superhero instincts kick in and I look up, but then I hear the name.

“…so let’s give a big, warm welcome to Dwight Brian Weissman, showrunner of Saturn’s Circle!”

My blood freezes, and I stand ramrod straight. The voice is coming from above me, two floors, in another big auditorium.

Someone lays a hand on my shoulder and says something I don’t hear through the blood pounding in my ears. I shrug them off, rising into the air unconsciously, and vaguely register a curse as I zero in on what must be Weissman’s voice.

“Glad to be here, Kevin, Brooke.” He could be anybody. His voice is a little nasal, but lacks the rasp of a heavy smoker.

“We’re glad to have you. So, your shows seem to have sparked a bit of controversy recently, huh?”

Laughter. Weissman laughs along with it. “Well, you know, I wouldn’t be much of a writer if I didn’t spark a lot of that!”

Kevin chuckles as I stiff-arm someone who tries to grab me away. The elevator arrives and I float in, dream-like, as the policemen—it’s them who tried to grab me, one of them anyway—back off, calling for backup. “There’s been a lot of coverage of this week’s premiere of Saturn’s Circle recently, with two big controversial moments. What do you say to people who call Silken Seductress’s drugging and having sex with Dashing Dan sexual assault and inappropriate to put on TV?”

Weissman sighs. “Frankly, Kevin, I think that I don’t need those kinds of regressive individuals watching my show. I wanted, you know, I’m a very progressive man, and I wanted a hashtag Me Too moment to really dig into these relevant social issues. So I thought that by having a woman take what she wanted sexually from an alpha-male character, it would serve as an antidote to all of these terrible stories of powerful men taking advantage of women.”

“But…” A new voice, female. “That’s still r*pe, Mr. Weissman. That the r*pist was a woman doesn’t change that.”

“No, Brooke, you don’t get it. Men can’t be r*ped, so it was actually—”

“Where the Hell did you hear THAT?”

“OK, Brooke, Dwight…”

“I read some excellent think pieces on the matter from a feminist theorist called Julie Binson…”

“Julie Binson thinks that all men should be castrated and transgender people should be exterminated in literal gas chambers. I think that you should’ve done a Hell of a lot more research, Mr. Weissman.”

“And what the Hell do YOU know about feminism, anyway?”

“Brooke, don’t—”

“No, I need to say this, Kevin. I only minored in media relations, Dwight, my major was in feminist theory, and I can tell you that the story you’re trying to tell is deeply dangerous and—”

“OKAY!” Kevin shouts as I exit the elevator. “Brooke, let’s just…let’s just move on—”

“This is not something we should let go, Kevin!”

Kevin’s voice drops so low I can barely hear it. “I know, but I don’t want you to be disciplined for shouting down a guest. The guy has connections out the *ss, and no offense but you’re entirely replaceable to the suits.” Kevin the interviewer clears his throat loudly as I stride down the corridor, ignoring a hand that waves in front of my face as people call out to me. “Um, anyway, Mr. Weissman. You've probably heard about the recent controversy, surrounding the death of the character Tradewind on the premiere of Saturn's Circle?"

Weissman sighs peevishly. "Look, people need to understand--it's a creative choice, you know, and I've made my career on such bold, visionary choices. We just, you know, we couldn't have such an old-school character on such a modern show, and by showing the realism of the dangers of old-fashioned cape costumes, we're really pushing for a noble social cause, as well."

"Some fans have said that it was an inappropriately violent death, considering that children are among--" the interviewer begins, but I don't hear the rest over the blood roaring in my ears. I step forwards, and the men guarding the doors try to grab me, but I throw them aside with ease, then throw the doors open, striding into the recording studio.

"Well, the fans aren't paid as much as I am to write television," Weissman sniffs, and then I push through a couple of production staff who try to stop me and onto the stage.

"You," I snarl.

Weissman turns, and frowns. My murderer is…nothing. A middle-aged, mid-sized man, graying hair receding from his forehead, thick-rimmed glasses, nondescript features. He could be anybody. And he might as well be God to me.

"Kathryn?” he asks in confusion. His voice could be anyone’s, a mediocre tenor of middling volume. “What the Hell are you doing here?"

"My name is GAIL!" I snarl, and I rise from the ground, Weissman's face draining of color as he realizes that I'm a superhero. "But you should know that. You created me, didn't you?"

"What the f*ck?" Weissman gasps. "What the F*CK?"

"You murdered me," I hiss, and I lunge down to grab him by the throat. Weissman wheezes, grabbing at his throat. The interviewers shout and the studio audience surges with noise, but everything but Weissman might as well be a continent away. "WHY DID YOU KILL ME?"

"Viewership...was slipping...We...had to do...something for...ratings!" he wheezes. “It got…great numbers!”

I throw him aside like a rag doll, and he crashes into the floor just short of the seats. "So you murdered me? I was sucked through a jet engine! Do you know what that feels like?"

"Oh, Jesus," Weissman gasps. The people around us might be reacting. I don’t care; there’s only me and Weissman in the world, as far as I can tell. "Oh, Jesus, oh God, oh f*ck, please don't kill me!"

"I felt my entire body turn into MULCH!" I scream. "You made me with these powers! You made me have nerves that could feel every last fragment of a second!"

A foul stench wafts up from his pants. "Please, please, God, I didn't, I didn't..."

"Didn't what, Weissman?" I float closer, my fists clenching and unclenching. "Didn't think? Didn't know?"

"I didn't, I didn't know you were real, oh my God, oh God please don't kill me, please!"

"I don't know," I sing-song, my voice cracking as I speak. "Did you write me to be a pacifist?"

"Please, please, I have friends...money...I can get you things..."

"Bargaining won't help you," I hear myself whisper. "You wrote me, Dwight Brian Weissman. You made me who I am. And then you murdered me. So tell me, Mr. Weissman--how do you think my revenant should act?"

"Please, I can help you, a house, a car, whatever you want..."

My hand closes over his throat and he cuts off with a choked gurgle. "The funny thing about not being real," I whisper, and my vision's going blurry, my arm shaking. "It means I'm not responsible for my actions. You are. If I kill you, that's your fault. You made me who I am. You made me super. You made me, my likes, my dislikes, my life, everything I've ever done, every last fragment of my person down to the last thread on my costume.

"And then you killed me for ratings," and my voice is a snarl. "Goodbye, Mr. Weissman."

"GAIL!"

My head snaps to my left, and Agent Ward stands there, her gun pointed at my head. "Let him go, Gail."

"He murdered me for attention," I sob.

"And he's going to live the rest of his life knowing that he's a cowardly, illiterate hack. But this? Is this really who you want to be, Gail?"

"It's not my choice," I whisper. "It's his choice. Him and the other writer and Kathryn Whittaker."

"He's not a godd*mn reality-warper, kid." Weissman tries to nod against my iron grip, prying uselessly at my hand. "Whatever you were before, you're real now. You're a real, living, breathing person, and you do have a choice."

"How do you know that?"

She snorts. "Call it a hunch. But if you need evidence, there's no way this idiot could find the initiative or intelligence to write his own creation choking him to death." Weissman nods frantically again. "Let him go, Gail. Make him apologize. Do you really want to go back to my place and face Natalie after murdering this idiot?"

I look back to the choking Weissman, who stares at me with wide, pleading eyes. "I don't want to be a toy," I whisper.

"You're not. Not anymore. Besides, this hack's show? It's all 'edgy' and 'modern' with the 'heroes' killing and r*ping people and bullsh*t like that, because that’s popular with the critics ever since Throne of Blood got big and all this moron knows is following the leader. He'd probably have preferred to write you as a killer."

"I'm too old-school," I her myself whisper. "That's what you called me, Weissman. Too old-school." He struggles for air, clawing at my hand again and kicking in vain.

"Gail? It's your decision. What I do with you depends on your choice."

"I..." I close my eyes. "I never want to have a writer again. I never want to have an actress again. I want to...to be me. To find what me is. To be free."

I drop Weissman, and the writer gasps for breath as he clutches at his throat. "If you or your partner ever write another television script, I'm coming for you," I warn him as Agent Ward lowers her gun and walks up to me.

"I...But..." he rasps. "I just signed...new deal..."

"Shut the f*ck up and think up a decent apology before I have you arrested for murdering a teenager and see if it holds up in court, d*ck," Agent Ward snaps. "Hey. Gail. Tradewind. C'mere."

I let her pull me into a hug, the tears flowing freely into her coat. "I..." I choke out.

"You made a good choice, kid," she assures me. "You're a good kid. And you can choose to be that good kid now. Whatever you want to be? You can be it."

"I don't know who I am anymore," I sob.

"Neither does any other teenager," she says. "It's going to be OK, kid. You're going to be alright."

I manage another, wordless sob. Agent Ward scoops me up with one arm under my leg, grunting with effort. “Dwayne,” she says, and there’s a pop as Agent Williams duplicates himself. “Let’s get her out of here.”

“Got it,” he rumbles. “Kid? You made the right choice.”

“I can choose,” I croak without fully processing. “I can choose.”

“Like I told you,” Agent Ward growls. “You’re a real person now.” She turns aside. “Trinh, mobilize everyone you can if you haven’t already. We need to control the media, ASAP.”

obviously that's a super intense scene, and even without context you can probably get what's going on.  But ideally the reader should get the gist of Gail's mental state. 

I want to feel General Brigar's thoughts and emotions and there isn't enough impactful description to give me that. 

 

Hope this is still helpful and not annoying. 

[GroundPetrel]

Third chapter: I'm not sure who this protagonist is as a person yet.  In general I'm a little cautious about excessive exasperation in a character's first chapter.  Not a huge deal here though. 

I like the detail about the monarchy just leaving their titles as "we are the royal house".  That's a neat detail and speaks to the kind of society we're seeing here.  There is a big overheated aristocracy game, but the royal house is in charge and everybody knows it.  However, this does clash somewhat with the plotline about the royal house being out of cash.  Perhaps adding a little clarification about how "conventionally" the royal house doesn't play the title game, but it's a brittle shield at the moment?  Or maybe there is a push internally to start playing the noble game vs. that being a concession that would show weakness?  Again, I love details in political fantasy. 

OK, the flashback shows me more of who this guy is.  He's somewhere in between Raoden and Adolin, but we're getting the "trying to hold the kingdom together" plot that neither really got. I like this--the "competent eldest son of weak/corrupt/incompetent/possibly crazy King" trope is pretty old, but it still has plenty of mileage, and the anxieties engendered by it are relatable and hit hard.  Only advice here is to possibly amp up the scale and ludicrous pomposity of the ball, and state that this is something that doesn't really need to be held at this point.  This is definitely getting towards what I'm talking about making the world lush.  Storming good stuff! 

We get more details here, it's still a tad on the sparse side but you are hitting well with the emotions here.  You could definitely amp up the emotional writing a bit as he reacts to the letter, but I think as is it does state, if not quite emotionally connect with, the enormity of the situation. 

Good job showing that this was a lesson that the protagonist had to inflict.  You've got the core here, only quibble is you should show the opponent stumbling away and falling or something before the protagonist turns to vomit. 

This is definitely a MUCH stronger chapter than the last two.  The very end could be expanded a bit, to get a bit more of the protagonist's emotional reactions and journey after the duel, but I like it much more than the previous two.  The last two chapters were genuinely..."there is good stuff here but that was hard to get through".  This was "there are some hiccups but this is solid work and keeps me hooked". 

[GroundPetrel]

Chapter 4: I'm getting that Sakava is out of touch and incompetent.  She responds to impolite criticism from a serially dissenting but loyal advisor (loyal, it must be noted, through what seems to be a major civil war) with a death threat then immediately walks back to a demotion threat.  This is very good character work IMO--we are seeing incompetence from the incompetent's perspective rather than being told that they are incompetent and shown cartoonish ineptness and corruption from the outside.  That cartoonish incompetence and corruption has its place, esp. in assassin fantasy, but this is a welcome divergence in its own way. 

We further see that she is lazy, unimaginative, and is possibly megalomaniacal.  Again, I like seeing this through her eyes.  This contrasts well with Brigar, knowing he's some rando lieutenant who got overpromoted, throwing out ideas to see what sticks.  I think that she shows a bit too much concern for human life as such here if she's intended to be an antagonist--if she is indeed a baddie, perhaps she should think of the human cost as "lives she would need to fulfill her mother's destiny" or some such. 

Ah, she wants to make it a desert.  Classy lady.  It seems Brigar has decided to go full Military Jesus as a Hail Mary maneuver.  I like this.  I think you're going for "rando lieutenant turned rebel leader becomes Warrior Jesus" with his plot and he seemed to be built as a guy who would have a lot of anxieties and insecurities about that.  Again, I like where it seems you're going with this. 

The battle scene kind of falls apart after the death pulse.  I gather that Brigar has been somehow negatively effected by becoming a living tacnuke, but after that it becomes hard to follow and I have very little sense of how the masses of people are moving, and there is very little sense of the chaos that Sakava is trying to bring order to.  I don't know what to advise here because this just fundamentally isn't working for me and IDK what precisely are the points that need to be hit. 

Chapter 5: Follow up on chapter 1!  I'm not sure why the POV is shifting so much, and following 5 people is...a lot, but this just needs an edit pass for pace, new-feeling words, and painting the world.  You've got the incompetent cop down pretty well and much of the emotional work here is solid and hits well.  (again, just a minor edit pass, the bulk of it works pretty well)

No real complaints here outside of "edit pass needed".  This is pretty solid like chapter 3. 

[GroundPetrel]

Chapter 6: See my lengthy thoughts on chapters 1 and 2.  This is some awesome stuff, but it needs a LOT more painting.  Try not to lose the sense of blackouts and spiritual corruption when you edit, because that hits hard. 

This NEEDS expansion, and a lot of it.  There is some cool stuff going on, but it feels rushed and sketched-out. 

Chapter 7: Much less need for more detail.  This is going great until the conversation with the disguised mistress.  With the society you have--quite nicely, I must say--built here, it is ludicrous that our protagonist would just spill so honestly to this woman. 

I like this character's internal meditations.  there's a lot of detail and emotion there. 

Plot thickens.  This is generally pretty good, but IMO you should rewrite the conversation with disguised mistress. 

Chapter 8: I see the connection.  I like it.  This is paced quite well and I like it.  You could pack more plot or character building in here but you don't have to.  Maybe slow the transition to the back end of the chapter a bit, take some time with it, but it's not essential. 

I'll get to part 2 tomorrow but I'm liking a lot of what I'm seeing. 

[GroundPetrel]

part 1 thoughts overall: You have a solid core of good and engaging ideas, but broadly speaking this needs a lot of expansion to add detail and emotions, then an edit pass or two. 

[Szeth_Pancakes]

This is all amazing and I can't thank you enough. You got a lot of things from my characters that I didn't get, which is going to be super useful for further development.

20 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

part 1 thoughts overall: You have a solid core of good and engaging ideas, but broadly speaking this needs a lot of expansion to add detail and emotions, then an edit pass or two. 

This is, honestly, exactly where I want to be.

Now I should get back to actually writing this b/c it's 9:30 pm where I'm at and I'm still 1400 words away from hitting my daily par.

[GroundPetrel]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Omniscient said:

This is all amazing and I can't thank you enough. You got a lot of things from my characters that I didn't get, which is going to be super useful for further development.

This is, honestly, exactly where I want to be.

Now I should get back to actually writing this b/c it's 9:30 pm where I'm at and I'm still 1400 words away from hitting my daily par.

More than happy to give my thoughts!  Again, you do have a solid core here.  There is a lot of work to be done (minimum 2 more drafts I think, one to fix the big holes then one to smooth out the rough edges), but there are good and entertaining ideas. 

Started skimming part two, there are again elements of it that I love despite (or maybe because of?  IDK) the shift in tone and feel to be more Ocean's 11 and less Dishonored, but again, I think Brigar's plot needs the most work.  The building up of the magic system is working well for me. 

Have a good time writing! 

[GroundPetrel]

Part 2:

 

I'm going to try to keep my critiques brief and to the point this time rather than spending 3 hours writing pedantic tangents about examples of other works that did things in a certain way. 

 

We have more of an Ocean's 11 feel and tone than gritty Gentlemen Bastards.  The tone and pacing and feel of this is much more modern heist movie than classic assassin fantasy, and it feels like a dichotomy more than Mistborn's blending of the two. 

I am not against this per se.  Just noticing it. 

I think this COULD clash a bit because we see the Prince's (relatively) slow drift into deciding he needs to kill his father, then it jumps into this staccato back and forth between him and the assassin through the intermediary.  This could definitely throw some readers off.  And now that I'm thinking about it, I can't help but wonder if the Prince's backstory needs more flashback scenes to show how the Prince got fed up with his father's incompetence, corruption, and waste. 

I like Eijur's backstory.  I'm left with a desire to see the rest of what he did.  No complaints tbh.  Just gimme more! 

The Sakava chapter--I see consistency to her character (unimaginative, sending good money after bad, generally incompetent), but again, there are very modern phrases here that I feel should be edited to sound more fantasy-y. 

Brigar's possession is interesting.  Everything with him needs a LOT more--more backstory, more time for the romance (like a LOT, unless the point is his husband's always been a villain and used some kind of magic to seduce him), more eerie feel to the possession.  You've got something really neat here but it needs a storming huge load more of everything. 

Sakava finally does something not incompetent.  Too little, too late, but at least she learned a bit. 

I don't actually like this sudden conversation with the possessing demon thing.  Too frank, not enough horror (there's hints, but it turns into conversation too fast), definitely came too soon in the narrative, and the dialogue feels too modern. 

Sakava's flight has some weird transitions ("almost instantly" forest turned into plains--is she crossing a tree line into a vast plain of agricultural fields?  This kind of transition doesn't often happen on a large scale outside of riparian forests and human-influenced cuts), and then they're back in the forest again a few paragraphs later?  This needs an edit pass. 

I like the core ideas with the framing elements of the cops and mistress talking but this needs an edit pass too. 

Big fan of the assassin's backstory.  Needs an edit pass but I like the way it shows how this person could become a loner assassin worshiping a creepy Obviously Evil deity.  It does need a slightly slower pace and more detail to flesh out the father's abuse and mother's attempts to protect the child (perhaps the stifling proper lady training can be made an element of the mother trying to shield the child from the father's cis-hetero-normative rage?  There is a little clash here between the mother's attitudes in the initial interactions and the bit after the father's arrival), I think.  Otherwise, this is conceptually interesting and I want to see more. 

I like the mistress's chapter and backstory.  Bookends need a bit more work than the core of the chapter.  This is overall pretty strong work though.  I'm feeling more details, getting the gist of emotions. 

I'm going to reiterate that Brigar's POVs need a LOT more detail, but I am getting his emotion here at points.  He should be a lot more stormed up from this kind of demonic possession though.  Sakava finally gains a degree of initiative and competence at the cost of her competent advisor.  This is starting to become a more interesting character. 

Reached the end of what you have.  I like Arekon's POVs.  I like the part where he's like "oh rust this is gonna be bad" when he sees Sakava's letter. 

 

I think overall that of the dead horse of my general criticisms ("needs more detail", "needs more emotion", "slow down a bit and savor the ride"), I've gone beyond just beating them, so storm it, I'm focusing on some other stuff. 

Positives:

There are bits of exceptional character work and evocative writing.  I want to see this stuff expanded and refined. 

There are some conceptually really good ideas (Arekon is a solid concept that I think you're taking in a good direction, and Brigar's plot is conceptually cool but needs a LOT more time) that definitely work for a war/assassin fantasy. 

Your characters are all quite distinct while being interesting and engaging.  This could always be refined more but I like the gist of what I'm seeing. 

Critiques:

Arekon's and Brigar's backstories in particular need more time dedicated to them, and Brigar's plot needs a LOT more time, detail, and attention. 

The plot is like a puzzle that's slowly coming together.  While that is relatively common in this kind of fantasy (see: the Shadow and Bone TV series), it runs the risk of alienating the reader with too many POV swaps.  Six of one, half a dozen of the other. 

 

I hope this is still helpful and not annoying! 

[Szeth_Pancakes]

It’s definitely still helpful! Getting critiques for my writing makes me feel less like I’m shouting into a bottomless, uncaring void

About the forest line thing, that’s completely intentional and meant to be weird. It’s the same kind of thing as the Arcallan Peninsula. It’s a worldbuilding thing.

[GroundPetrel]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Omniscient said:

It’s definitely still helpful! Getting critiques for my writing makes me feel less like I’m shouting into a bottomless, uncaring void

About the forest line thing, that’s completely intentional and meant to be weird. It’s the same kind of thing as the Arcallan Peninsula. It’s a worldbuilding thing.

Fair enough!  And trust me, I know what you mean about feedback. 

My last word here is always going to be: Keep writing!  You have some raw ability, now you just need to refine it.