Rg2045

So how many magic systems does roshar have?

13 posts in this topic

So we know scandrial is the more earth like inventions. And roshar is more magic based. 
we also know scandrial has 3 maybe 4 magic systems that they use. 
we also know that roshar, wait how many magic systems? 
ok so there is two ways to count magic systems. 
the KR are 1 system or 10 different systems. Each with their own side abilities too. 
then there’s the old magic, and voidbinding,(does it have 9 or 10 I forgot) 

 

so that brings us to 20 give or take 1. 
then there’s those magic fish, and the Larkin, and great shells, idk if that’s three or 1 or something else. And then there’s fabrials both slavery and voluntary fabrials. 
and possibly dancing magic in shinovar. 
the unmade. And possibly a cultivation magic system that we have yet to see. 

Each bondsmith honestly. Then singers transforming is that a magic system? 
so what’s yalls thoughts? I think I give up on exact count because honestly roshar is truly a special place, 

it’s no wonder that they came up with anti light first.  

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Yeah Roshar sure is something special, anyway I'll give my opinion on what exactly counts as a 'Magic System' on Roshar, feel free to disagree.

What I Think Isn't A Magic System

The Fabrials aren't so much a magic system as they are taking advantage of the nature of Roshar. It's like humans on Earth taking advantage of natural phenomena for our own benefit, such as Hydroelectric dams using the motion generated by flowing rivers to make electricity, this isn't supernatural it's just the result of science making use of nature's process's. Same thing with Fabrial's, taking advantage of natural things (Spren) for science (Fabrials). Not really a Magic System, just science.

The 'Magic Fish' from Purelake are things we don't know much about, so we couldn't definitively say whether that counts due to a lack of information.

Same with the 'Dancing Magic' in Shinovar.

The Larkin's 'Investivore' abilities (their ability to feed on Investiture) and the Greatshells abnormal size is due to natural creatures adapting to a highly Invested environment. Like how plants and creatures in our world adapt to new environments to help with survival. Not quite magic, just nature being assisted by Investiture.

The Old Magic is very weird, I'd personally say that it's more like Divine Intervention from the Nightwatcher and occasionally Cultivation. It doesn't seem to have any 'rules' that most 'Brandon' Magic Systems have and the Nightwatcher and Cultivation are the only one's who use it. This appear to be Cultivation's 'Magic System'.

The Unmade are Spren that have been heavily altered and corrupted by Odium for his own purposes, like Old Magic this is more like Divine Intervention than any kind of Magic System.

What I Think Is A Magic System

The Knights Radiants use Surgebinding, which despite it's many varying abilities and Orders, is all just parts of Surgebinding. To say otherwise would be like calling each Allomantic ability it's own magic system, which isn't very accurate. Each of the Bondsmith's abilities, despite how ridiculously OP they are, all fall under the umbrella of Surgebinding.

Voidbinding is Odium's variation of Surgebinding for his Fused to use, it lacks the Surge of Adhesion and has some small differences in how it functions like how each of the 9 Fused Brands (their version of Orders) can only use a single Surge.

The Singer's ability to assume different Forms via forming a Bond with certain types of Spren and stepping into a Storm seems too intricate to me to be just a natural phenomenon caused by natural adaptions to Investiture. I believe that this counts as a Magic System. 

 

And that's all. As far as I'm concerned Roshar has 3 'Magic Systems' with everything else being made possible by Roshar's special nature.

It's all very subjective so do take this with a grain of salt.

 

Edited by JustQuestin2004
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7 hours ago, Rg2045 said:

so that brings us to 20 give or take 1.

Under that premise you need to count each kind of Misting and Fering separately

7 hours ago, Rg2045 said:

 then there’s those magic fish, and the Larkin, and great shells, idk if that’s three or 1 or something else. And then there’s fabrials both slavery and voluntary fabrials. 
and possibly dancing magic in shinovar. 
the unmade. And possibly a cultivation magic system that we have yet to see.

  • Surgebinding: Knights Radiant, Fused, Yelig Nar, some fabrials, (Singer rhythm magic?)
  • Voidbinding: Renarin and other bondees of enlightened spren
  • Regals
  • Unmade (even Yelig Nar offers additional abilities - turning your body into crystal)
  • abilities lesser spren offer: Rosharan animals & some fabrials
  • Stormfather
  • Urithiru or rather the Sibling
  • possibly Cultivations ten abilities
  • abilities of lesser voidspren: the detector voidspren
  • Purelake fish
  • Thunderclasts
  • Sleepless
  • Aimians
  • Iriali
  • Horneater magic
5 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

The Larkin's 'Investivore' abilities (their ability to feed on Investiture) and the Greatshells abnormal size is due to natural creatures adapting to a highly Invested environment. Like how plants and creatures in our world adapt to new environments to help with survival. Not quite magic, just nature being assisted by Investiture.

No. They clearly have a bond to luckspren. And on Scadrial you call the people who do the same thing Ferings.

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1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

No. They clearly have a bond to luckspren. And on Scadrial you call the people who do the same thing Ferings.

Oh yeah that's right, Natural Nahel Bonds, not just Investiture. My bad.

 

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

possibly Cultivations ten abilities

I'm pretty sure Cultivation doesn't actually have her own form of Surgebinding and just shares regular Surgebinding with Honor.

 

Also what do you define as a 'Magic System'?

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1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Also what do you define as a 'Magic System'?

Good, yet difficult question. A set of powers with similar ways of using them. That leaves open the question where you cut. But not whether an ability is a member of a system.

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  • Surgebinding.
  • Voidbinding.
  • Fabrials.
  • Singer Gemheart bonds with subspren.

For me a magic system is a grouping of closely related powers that share similarities in their function and/or how they are obtained, and are used by sapient beings. 
It doesn’t cover everything perfectly but neither do concepts like species.
 

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Cultivation magic

Honor magic

Odium magic

Old World magic

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1 hour ago, Thanatos said:

Cultivation magic

Honor magic

Odium magic

Old World magic

What's Fabrials then?

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1 hour ago, Thanatos said:

Cultivation magic

Honor magic

Odium magic

Old World magic

If you go from a Scadrial perspective there could be a magic system for each god and a combined:

Honor magic - surgebinding?

Cultivation magic - old magic?

Odium magic - void binding?

Honor / Cultivation magic - surgebinding?

Then is Odium connected enough to the system/planet to combine with the other two? If so there is also:

Honor / Odium magic

Cultivation / Odium magic

Honor / Cultivation / Odium magic

So 4 - 7 magic systems, no idea what the last three could be, if they even exist. 

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A fun way to answer this question is just to say "one."  All rosharan magic systems depend on bonds made by spren.  Radiants are just the result of a group of spren bound in a particular way.  Fabrails are a different one.  Even the old magic and the fused are the result of people connecting to spren and shards respectively. 

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I dont think the shards can mix like that unless its spren that are one half shard1 investiture and the other half shard2 investiture etc etc. 

Dont think there are such spren.

Old magic predates the Shattering, one being the high storms/stormlight.

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[deleted as already stated by another previous post]

Edited by FatherV
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On 11/25/2022 at 1:42 AM, Thanatos said:

I dont think the shards can mix like that unless its spren that are one half shard1 investiture and the other half shard2 investiture etc etc. 

Dont think there are such spren.

Old magic predates the Shattering, one being the high storms/stormlight.

Unsure if it predates the shattering, but it definitely predates the KR 

also for everyone else that questions if KR are 10 or 1 magic systems I’m inclined to consider them 10 because their is only one unmade that destroys your soul if used improperly, that has all of them. Like you can’t be a Windrunner with division. 
whereas in mistborn 

A mistborn is litterally part of the magic system. And the others are just dilutions. 
same with other scandrial magics. 
also I really liked the discussion. Definitely makes sense where y’all are coming from 

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