Horneaters and timing of the epilogue[DISCUSS]

[+Oltux72]

This is sort of odd. It may be tempting to attribute the red-haired people needing help to Horneaters forced to flee by events of SA#5. That however creates horrible problems in terms of timing. As far as we can now tell the Final Days are in 1175 (Vorin calender). So either those Horneaters have been wandering through Shadesmar for the better part of a decade of or era 2 is before the True Desolation. It is very difficult to pull this off without Hoid having to be on Scadrial and Roshar at the same time, as Waxillium would probably not rehire a coachman on demand.
If they have survived Shadesmar for years, why would they need help now?

On the other hand we have the Ghostbloods talking about problems with Worldhopping, Are they talking about Fused Dalinar leading Odium's armies on a rampage through Shadesmar?
If that is the case are the Horneaters turned into refugees part of the events of SA#6?

If we rule out era2 being before the first arc of Stormlight and assume SA#5 to end in 1175 then Alloy of Law cannot be before 1181. And if the Horneaters are really displaced in SA#6 We arrive at it taking place after 1185.

What do you think?

[+robardin]

Let's also not forget that Shallan sees "a handful" of Horneaters at Lasting Integrity who were "apparently" part of "a clan of them who lived in Shadesmar"; she didn't say (or know) that that "handful" of people were the entire clan.

One doesn't normally term a handful (five or fewer, technically) of people a "clan", The Mandalorean notwithstanding. Shallan's use of the word "apparently" indicates she was surprised to learn there was a clan of Horneaters living in Shadesmar full-time, but also that perhaps this handful was just a subset of them who happened to be in LI before the lockdown and for whatever reason, preferred to stay.

In other words, if those "hundreds" of oddly red-haired and strangely dressed (to MeLaan) people were indeed Horneaters, they could just be that "Shadesmar clan" rather than refugees bespeaking of some kind of evacuation event at the Peaks in SA5.

And if we do get the Rock novella "Horneater" before SA5 (the way we got "Dawnshard" before RoW), I'm thinking we'll see Rock exiled through the perpendicularity to join them (that's what Rock meant by "When we meet again, I suspect it shall not be in this world, this life") - he will start a new life in Shadesmar. Especially since he thanks Kal for saving him from the chasms and not to be sad that he now chooses to "live that life" (not to "give up my life as I see fit").

MeLaan thinks they are "lost" but who knows? Maybe they're just camping out en route to somewhere they think they need to be at in Shadesmar.

Edited November 19, 2022 by robardin

[Procrastination]

Maybe the Horneaters living in Shadesmar are now trapped somehow? Maybe the perpendicularities are unsafe, or Shadesmar has slowly been getting more and more dangerous.

[Tglassy]

It would make total sense they'd be in Shadesmar for years.  If something bad happens to Roshar, then the Horneaters would be the first out.  They're near a perpendicularity.  Then where, exactly, would they go?  

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, robardin said:

Let's also not forget that Shallan sees "a handful" of Horneaters at Lasting Integrity who were "apparently" part of "a clan of them who lived in Shadesmar"; she didn't say (or know) that that "handful" of people were the entire clan.

Well, they apparently do not live in Lasting Integrity, but that she met some of them there shows that they know of it.

2 hours ago, robardin said:

One doesn't normally term a handful (five or fewer, technically) of people a "clan", The Mandalorean notwithstanding. Shallan's use of the word "apparently" indicates she was surprised to learn there was a clan of Horneaters living in Shadesmar full-time, but also that perhaps this handful was just a subset of them who happened to be in LI before the lockdown and for whatever reason, preferred to stay.

In other words, if those "hundreds" of oddly red-haired and strangely dressed (to MeLaan) people were indeed Horneaters, they could just be that "Shadesmar clan" rather than refugees bespeaking of some kind of evacuation event at the Peaks in SA5.

That raises a big problem. We learned in Rhythm of War that it takes Stormlight to keep plants alive in Shadesmar. You also need Stormlight (or presumably other forms of Investiture) to make water. You see the problem for a group of Horneaters living apart of the trade routes?

And that makes it so odd. If you were a Horneater stranded in Shadesmar or Roshar were getting so bad that you needed to get out, where would you go? To a place people are known to live at. Lasting Integrity has traders coming and going at a regular pace. Should we assume that it has been razed?

1 hour ago, Tglassy said:

It would make total sense they'd be in Shadesmar for years.  If something bad happens to Roshar, then the Horneaters would be the first out.  They're near a perpendicularity.  Then where, exactly, would they go?  

Not to a totally unknown place whose perpendicularity they'd have to find if they had any other option.

[bmcclure7]

8 hours ago, robardin said:

Let's also not forget that Shallan sees "a handful" of Horneaters at Lasting Integrity who were "apparently" part of "a clan of them who lived in Shadesmar"; she didn't say (or know) that that "handful" of people were the entire clan.

One doesn't normally term a handful (five or fewer, technically) of people a "clan", The Mandalorean notwithstanding. Shallan's use of the word "apparently" indicates she was surprised to learn there was a clan of Horneaters living in Shadesmar full-time, but also that perhaps this handful was just a subset of them who happened to be in LI before the lockdown and for whatever reason, preferred to stay.

In other words, if those "hundreds" of oddly red-haired and strangely dressed (to MeLaan) people were indeed Horneaters, they could just be that "Shadesmar clan" rather than refugees bespeaking of some kind of evacuation event at the Peaks in SA5.

And if we do get the Rock novella "Horneater" before SA5 (the way we got "Dawnshard" before RoW), I'm thinking we'll see Rock exiled through the perpendicularity to join them (that's what Rock meant by "When we meet again, I suspect it shall not be in this world, this life") - he will start a new life in Shadesmar. Especially since he thanks Kal for saving him from the chasms and not to be sad that he now chooses to "live that life" (not to "give up my life as I see fit").

MeLaan thinks they are "lost" but who knows? Maybe they're just camping out en route to somewhere they think they need to be at in Shadesmar.

I wonder if she will bring them to Scadrial. 

Technically it takes clan is 3 generation to form a clan. So if the generation are small enough and some members pass away then yes you can have a 5 members in a clan. 

However you are probably right clans are usually larger.

Edited November 20, 2022 by bmcclure7

[bmcclure7]

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

This is sort of odd. It may be tempting to attribute the red-haired people needing help to Horneaters forced to flee by events of SA#5. That however creates horrible problems in terms of timing. As far as we can now tell the Final Days are in 1175 (Vorin calender). So either those Horneaters have been wandering through Shadesmar for the better part of a decade of or era 2 is before the True Desolation. It is very difficult to pull this off without Hoid having to be on Scadrial and Roshar at the same time, as Waxillium would probably not rehire a coachman on demand.
If they have survived Shadesmar for years, why would they need help now?

On the other hand we have the Ghostbloods talking about problems with Worldhopping, Are they talking about Fused Dalinar leading Odium's armies on a rampage through Shadesmar?
If that is the case are the Horneaters turned into refugees part of the events of SA#6?

If we rule out era2 being before the first arc of Stormlight and assume SA#5 to end in 1175 then Alloy of Law cannot be before 1181. And if the Horneaters are really displaced in SA#6 We arrive at it taking place after 1185.

What do you think?

They are in silver light so maybe they providing them with food and water.

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

They are in silver light so maybe they providing them with food and water.

What makes you think so? Just using Silverlight's postal service does not mean you are in Silverlight.

[bmcclure7]

35 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

What makes you think so? Just using Silverlight's postal service does not mean you are in Silverlight.

Fair point, well we know either way the fact silver light exists, means that long term settlement in the cognitive realm is possible.